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 Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:29 pm

FWIW I see Monroe lists the same part number for the Riv and Park Ave for the quick strut. I've used Quick Struts in the past on other vehicles and had excellent luck. But I would not expect the PA and Riv to have the same spring rate. In the past there was no quick strut listed for the Riv, so it's a newer part.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:37 am

Right now I see two solutions to my high front issue. Take out the monroes and redo the struts aka $$$ or pump up the max airs in the back and put more weight on the front. I really do like the monroes, I just wish it was 2" lower. Any other suggestions? too bad I just can't swap the springs out and put the stock ones back on and keep the monroes.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:29 am

You could swap the springs out and keep the Monroes, actually. Just because they come preassembled, doesn't mean you can't disassemble them. It can be done with a little more time or $. You have two pairs of stuts and two pairs of springs - you have more than a few options. I'm still a fan of the KYBs with stock springs, because I've ran this combo for well over 120k miles with impressive results. Now on my 2nd set, same springs. Also put a set on my wife's car.

I wouldn't expect much help from the shop at this point. They gave you some advice, which you chose to follow. But it was also your choice to buy the Monroes, and they installed them just as you asked. It's hard to find any liability on their part. They did their job. Who knows, maybe they thought you wanted a raised front end?

This is a really unfortunate situation. The process of replacing front struts should be a rather painless 4 hour procedure, and shouldn't cost much more than $250 if you DIY, or $500 labor included. It pains me, because this is the kind of thing our site was created to prevent. You should not have needed to drop a grand on the front suspension of your Riviera, no way, no how. You should not be sitting on an extra set of struts and springs on the advice of some shop. Still, I can see how it happened, and I don't see a clear way out.

I'd chalk it up to lessons learned. You're probably going to need to pay some more $ to remove the Monroes, then decide if you want to mate them with the stock springs, which I think should work. Or, you can use the KYBs as originally planned, which makes the most sense, imo. Why? because we know they work. Very low risk with good performance. So one's black and ones silver. Do you want to have a great ride at a good price, or do you want matching paint? A can of black spray enamel is $4, just saying.

I doubt the auto parts place will take the Monroes as a return, but if you took them off the car, cleaned them up, and repackaged, you never know. If you can get them to take the Monroes back, I'd consider it a major victory. The new springs you bought are of no use at this point.

Best of luck. Hope it all works out.

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3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 am

F%^K!
Ok, I will keep you guys updated on this. Am I the only one that has installed the 1 piece monroes?
And before I get all pumped up to uninstall these... are there any benefits that can be reaped? Will it allow a bigger wheel/tire that will normalize my traction? Will pumping the back shocks up put more weight on the front and normalize the stance?

These struts work fine except for the lift. that is the only problem. I need them lowered 2" or more weight up front from lifting the back..

AE@ENI@EN@IOQ@#E!~

I called the shop that put them on, they still have my stock springs. They told me to stop by tomorrow and they will check it out.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:32 pm

I say you should drive to the store and show them. It sure looks to me like it's the wrong part.

It will probably cost a little money to get the correct part reinstalled, but you should send pictures of your car to Monroe - they may help you cover some of the labor. What you are driving is incorrect, and in my opinion, unsafe.

Raising the back will not help your situation, and possibly damage the rear shocks.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:40 pm

When I was working on my front end I went and got OEM strut assemblies salvaged from an auto salvage yard. They feel pretty good. The car had 70k miles but they seemed to have replaced the struts recently. It sure was a pain. I believe I also replace the wheel hub assembly.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:02 pm

Can you tell which Riv is mine? LOL.
Baby Jesus, please let these Moog springs return my ride to its original height. Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:06 pm


Moog on the left Monroe on the right Moog's radius is slightly shorter. ID? the thickness of the coil is a mm or 2 smaller than the Monroe.

Putting these bad boys on now and then doing the backs with Moogs.


Last edited by charlieRobinson on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:01 pm

thumbsup

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:03 pm

If the Monroe spring is specc'ed for multiple cars, it might have a higher spring rate or have a higher load rating (especially if it was designed for a car with a battery in the front and a steel hood). That being said, if the free height is the same as your OEM spring, but it's firmer or has a higher load rating, than that would explain your car riding higher. In other words, the front end is definitely too high, but maybe that's the best you can expect when using those on a Riviera. The situation is probably exacerbated by the fact your OEM components were sagging in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:38 pm

I put new Moog springs on all 4 corners and now I am back in business. My car has never felt this nice. The only thing I miss is my cornering ability with the saggy oem springs and old struts and shocks. I definitely cannot take a corner like I could with the worn out gear. I traded cornering ability for ride comfort. That's for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:11 pm

Assuming this means your ride height is back to an acceptable level. That's good.

I wonder if this "cornering ability" you're missing is actually real, or if it's just the way you perceive it. Maybe share some details, exactly what is happening that makes you feel your car doesn't hold the corners? Does the car roll a lot? Does it actually loose grip and slide? Understeer/oversteer? Why is it not as good now?

Understand that you've been through a lot with the front suspension, but bottom line is you swapped out your 135k-mile-old stock MacPherson struts and coil springs with fresh Monroe struts and Moog coil springs. Your OEM suspension did not have what I would call "good cornering ability", even if it seemed "ok". Would it be correct to say either the Monroe struts or the Moog springs are giving you a softer ride now compared to stock? That would be pretty soft.

Did anything else change during the process? Are tires the same?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:38 pm

AA wrote:
I wonder if this "cornering ability" you're missing is actually real, or if it's just the way you perceive it. Maybe share some details, exactly what is happening that makes you feel your car doesn't hold the corners? Does the car roll a lot? Does it actually loose grip and slide? Understeer/oversteer? Why is it not as good now?
I should have taken pictures before I messed with anything. But here's my best guess. There is for sure a difference in cornering now. Much more roll than before. I was losing grip real bad when I put the monroe quickies on but before I swapped in the Moogs. They have seemed to help with the grip. My thought is that the old suspension i had, while not broke or critically bad, just old and bumpy, was much lower than it is now. Hencea lower center point of gravity and better cornering.
Quote :
Understand that you've been through a lot with the front suspension, but bottom line is you swapped out your 135k-mile-old stock MacPherson struts and coil springs with fresh Monroe struts and Moog coil springs. Your OEM suspension did not have what I would call "good cornering ability", even if it seemed "ok". Would it be correct to say either the Monroe struts or the Moog springs are giving you a softer ride now compared to stock? That would be pretty soft.
It's for sure firmer.
Quote :
Did anything else change during the process? Are tires the same?
nothing else changed.


The ride is much smoother now with Moog springs and I am getting much better traction. Not perfect, in my mind, but the best i've had in this Riv. I still think the front is just a bit too high and now im getting paranoid that the entire monroe strut is off spec and not just the spring... hopefully it's all in my head. Check out the pictures below. It seems like the ride is straight level and front needs to drop another inch. The new rear springs helped bring the back up a bit and level it out, thank goodness.I am going to give it a week and see how it settles. I might lift the back air shocks up just a bit to get more weight in the front. Just a wild guess, but, I would say 48.8% of the weight is in front right now. I would like it to be about 51 or 52%.
Before:

After:

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:50 pm

No, these are not hallucinogenic mushrooms. This is more of that grey silicone sealant shit i've been finding all over my block.

Today's bounty came from the inside housing of the blower with the blades. The part that connects to the snout.

Cleaned it up best I could. This is the 3rd time i've found this stuff with no rhyme or reason to its use. I would love to meet the person who thought this was a good idea.

My first reaction was OMG, what if this shit got stuck in the gears and seized them?! I'm not sure what would happen if they took a bite of silicone, but i'm sure it wouldn't be pretty.
You can still see the spots I couldn't get. Under each gear. The little white spots. Yes, it wasn't sealing AROUND the housing, it was literally INSIDE the housing. Way too close for comfort.

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:37 pm

Although I don't use any sealant on my SC snout, some to use a small amount of RTV. I doubt there would come any harm to the rotor gears from stray sealer - BUT - like I said, I don't use anything at all and have never had a leak.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:20 pm

After installing the MPS I was getting some chirps and squeaks. At first I thought it was water or supercharger oil on the belt but the next day I still had piggies in the engine bay. The belt was fine before the install, no noises. So I had to assume the hub or something on the snout was fugged up because I replaced the seal and hammered on it pretty good.

Then, I thought, no way, has to be belt because it sounds like it's slipping. The belt is maybe 2 years old and looks great. I can't imagine a .2" drop in pulley size is going to give enough slack for slippage. Anyways, don't judge me, but I smeared some silicone on the belt and sure enough the piggies ran around.

She sounds and runs great now but I will probably just have to get a new belt soon. The silicone wouldnt mask any other underlying problems, would it? I just don't get why the belt would slip with a 3.6" and not the 3.8" ?


Also, I am seeing knock at full throttle application. Up to 7 degrees for moments at a time, then down to 5 and 3. If I creep on the gas I can get up to ~3psi before seeing a degree of knock. I definitely have to keep an eye on it. Didn't really expect it from a 3.6". Do I need 104 plugs? A PLOG? 3" Downpipe? All 3? I want 0 knock!

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:36 am

Yours is a case like Dave G.'s, where even a little extra boost results in more KR than expected. This kind of thing happens more often than we think, but you have a scanner and caught it before things got ugly. Bumps of 3 KR is acceptable under WOT. 5-7 is concerning, but it won't kill your engine if you learn when & where this occurs and learn to avoid it until you can work out a solution.

3" downpipe is the logical next move. Also try different gas. Make sure you're really getting the 93 octane they are advertising. 104 plugs wouldn't hurt, but I don't think they'll solve your problem.

Beyond that you can tune out KR with HP or DHP. I think there's a DHP with AutoTap in the For Sale section right now. Also, there is a device called a mini AFC for about $120 that can correct this situation, but it will not let you tune anything else on the car.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:32 am

My next project is FWI but I think I am also going to get a 3" downpipe, PLOG, and ceramic crossover pipe. Yesterday was payday, after all cool If that doesn't drop my KR then I don't know what will.

Dave G. I want to talk to you!
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:05 am

FWI intake could increase your KR, as you're increasing intake air (you need to increase fueling). It's a good mod, but unfortunately this is not the right time. I'd wait till after the 3" downpipe.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:48 am

Can I expect a PLOG to help out with my KR issue? I can get a 1 year old ZZP PLOG installed for $100. Might do it this weekend.

I will order that downpipe and crossover soon too.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:08 am

As long as the OEM downpipe is in place, the PLOG won't be able to do a whole lot. Still every little thing helps, but the downpipe is the #1 bottleneck. Our manifolds aren't terrible. A Riv has run high 12s before on stock (ported) manis.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:14 pm

Did you have any KR before you swapped pullies?
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:08 pm

I thought I read somewhere on here that a bad pulley( idler, tensioner, etc..) can cause false KR. Is this true and could this be linked to his squeals?
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:16 pm

I haven't heard that before. I suppose it's possible, but never noticed it when my pulleys were bad.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:32 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Did you have any KR before you swapped pullies?
I would see about 1-3 degrees of KR at full throttle sometimes with my stock pulley. Now I am getting raunchy KR with my 3.6". 3-7 degrees of KR at full throttle applications. I am still a novice, of course, but from what I understand, the KR sensors are actually microphones? Perhaps the squeal is affecting these?

I put some silicone on the belt and it silenced it for like 24 hours but now the squeal is faint but coming back. I have to assume it's the belt slipping. I just don't see how .2" would give it enough slack to slip.

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