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 Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)

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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 4:12 pm

nice pics. I allways use a thin bead of high temp silicone around the PCV plate. I also run a bead around the main vac tower just above and to the left of the throttle body.its a common area for leaks.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 12:57 pm

Thanks Robo.

Still trying to figure out a good way to get at those rear plugs. Removed the vac box near the intake cowl (near bottom windshield), gave a lot of room, but still not enough to get at the plugs. I have big hands so this is a pain in the ass for me. lol

I tried from underneath but didn't have the car high enough. Will have to try again this weekend.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 1:02 pm

on the 95 the best way is to remove the vac box.you did this.then lay a thick moving blanket folded in three,drape it over the engine and radiator support,lay down and get to work.i find if i do it this way ,i relieve alot of stress on my back.

you can also unhook the 3 or 4 eletrical boxes,the ones kinda snugled together on a bracekt on the firewall,and move them outa the way...


Last edited by robotennis61 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 1:05 pm

Yeah, It's not even getting back there that's a problem. There's coolant lines in the way and an engine lift hook. Would take them off but I'd probably break them and then I'd have to replace those to the firewall most likely.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 1:14 pm

you can remove them from underneath.its a huge pia tho. best bet is to unhook a bunch of shit in that area and go to it. worked for me. then hook it back up.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 1:17 pm

Yeah, I'll give it a shot. Should probably replace a bunch of the coolant lines anyway they don't look great.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 1:18 pm

yeah.mine were cooked.bought some coolant hose from AZ.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 7:39 pm

The easiest way is to have a buddy with a couple hoists in his garage. But, not everyone is that lucky. They are a bitch if you don't. I would think a small, local garage would not charge that much to do the back three for you. It takes me about ten minutes when it's in the air.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 9:54 pm

Some people have had problems with the Bosch wires on SC engines, the OE wires or Taylor spiral-wound or Magnecor seem to perform and last netter.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 10:03 pm

And aren't Bosche wires sold at AutoZone?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 11:09 pm

AA wrote:
And aren't Bosch wires sold at AutoZone?

Yes but that's not as important as whether the wires are intended for the SC's high energy ignition. The Bosch wires fit. The Bosch wires work. All I'm saying is more than one list member has pointed out that they don't last all that long, and more than one has replaced a good-looking set of them in order to fix a stubborn ignition problem. It's not just Bosch. Or Autozone.

If I remember right the problem is the typical conductor in aftermarket wires is carbon impregnated silicone. Supposedly what happens is the carbon ablates over time and one or more wires will go "open circuit" which contributes to causing the associated coil to fail. I don't completely understand this, though.

Again it's not that the Bosch wires don't work. It's just in our application (and off the top of my head, the HEI in Fords with the 4.6L engine) what I read indicates that they work as long as any of the other competing wires, which turns out to not be that long.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyTue Oct 30, 2012 2:44 pm

I had put a set of Bosch wires on my Mercedes 500SEL and they worked very well. Not sure why people are having issues with Bosch wires on the 3800 SC. They are warrantied, so we'll see.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyTue Oct 30, 2012 10:06 pm

sniperdude wrote:
I had put a set of Bosch wires on my Mercedes 500SEL and they worked very well. Not sure why people are having issues with Bosch wires on the 3800 SC. They are warrantied, so we'll see.

the only thing I can think of regarding Bosch wires is the ablation thing. Bosch makes, on balance, very good car parts and by and large does excellent engineering of automotive subsystems. I suspect they look at the wires as a "maintenance item" and like their water pumps for Audis probably expect that you'll change them fairly often. If you chaged Bosch wires as often as you'd change their standard Super plugs (every 30K miles or so0 you'd probably never have a problem.

Also, I'd want to know how many KV the secondaries on the Mercedes puts out. On the supercharged Riviera (IF I remember right) I think the secondaries put out a staggering 45 KV, more than many other standard ignition systems.That basically blasts teh snot out of most wires over time -- even the Delco OE wires are only good for around 50K miles if I remember the gist of old postings on this topic.

So I am not saying Oh Bosch Wires Are Bad. I am saying that there are better wires available for this particular application, and the Bosch wires will generally work OK at the start but won't last that long.

Why the high voltage? So the Riv can run a wider spark plug gap and at the same time be calibrated to run relatively lean. Combine that with the trick timing table in the PCM and you get 25-30 MPG on the highway at cruise in the longest production car Buick built at the time.
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sniperdude
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyTue Oct 30, 2012 10:15 pm

Wow, that is pretty high.

I believe on the high end the W140 was at 28kV. Dual distributor though, not coils.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyTue Oct 30, 2012 10:27 pm

sniperdude wrote:
Wow, that is pretty high.

I believe on the high end the W140 was at 28kV. Dual distributor though, not coils.

Yeah, I could be wrong about that but I don't think so.

The other thing you need to know, by the way, is that this does NOT mean that each firing cycle is going to see those 45KV voltage levels. What happens is that as RPM, engine load, supercharging, and other factors increase the need for greater energy, the Riv ignition system is capable of it. If you don't drive spiritedly you probably never see those voltage levels. The voltage you get is always the minimum needed to jump the spark gap at any given time, given engine fuel charge and load conditions -- no more.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyWed Oct 31, 2012 8:07 am

There is no reason to use anti seize on tapered seat plugs. Most people overtighten them, and that is the problem. 1/16 of a turn past finger tight is all it takes. Anti seize may be of some value in an aluminum head, but applying that much (like in the picture) can interfere with heat transfer from the plug to the head. The heat range of a plug depends on heat transfer from the plug to the head. Plugs running too hot can lead to detonation and a lot of KR. If you want to use anti seize, a dab on the threads is all you need. I have aluminum heads on my 70 GS. I use NGK plugs, which have plated threads. No need for anti seize, and I have never had a problem.

Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) Sp6d

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AA
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Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyWed Oct 31, 2012 2:00 pm

I've never used any thread lube nor boot grease on my plugs in 225k miles of operation. Never had even the slightest issue changing them. My plugs get changed once per year or 20k miles, AC delco wires last 100k-130k miles before replacement. All original coils. For me, this is the winning combo.

However, this write-up still shows basically the correct procedure. I've never needed to remove the shroud; plugs must be easier to get on Series II.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyWed Oct 31, 2012 2:45 pm

yup.a bit much. a small dab the size of a q-tip is good enough.jus sayin
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyWed Oct 31, 2012 3:37 pm

It is probably in excess of what is needed. I noticed there was some rusting going on in the threads and outside a bit so I wanted to make sure it doesn't have any issues next time.

Does anyone know where to buy replacement coolant hoses for behind the motor? The ones that are covered in heat shielding tape.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyFri Nov 09, 2012 7:10 pm

you can buy those in a bulk pac at Autozone. bout $5.cut to size.i got mine there bout 4 years ago and theyre still holdin up real good. just6 measure the od of the oem hose and buy to match

at the AZ its called "heater hose"
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyFri Nov 09, 2012 7:39 pm

I bought the molded ones from GM, I don't think they were very expensive. But the universal type robo mentions will fit too.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyThu Nov 15, 2012 4:08 pm

I went ahead and ordered the AC Delco wire set (626D) just to be safe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BYGCMK/
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 9:34 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
I bought the molded ones from GM, I don't think they were very expensive. But the universal type robo mentions will fit too.

the molded ones are also available from RockAuto.com and yes they are not very expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Nov 19, 2012 2:27 pm

Are the heater hoses two piece hoses? Because on AC Delco's site it lists two molded heater hoses. These hoses don't look long enough to connect back to the metal pipes coming off of the engine. I haven't had a chance to remove the heat shielding off the hoses to look if they are 2 pieces.

HOSE,ENG COOL HTR
Part Number: 14184S
Product Notes:
HVAC Heater Hose
Pipe-1 To Pipe-2 ; Supercharged ; 1 Per Veh

Per Vehicle: 1; Years: 1995-1995

Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) 14184S

and

HOSE,ENG COOL HTR
Part Number: 14244S
Product Notes:
90 Deg Molded Heater Hose
Pipe-3 To Pipe-4 ; Cut to Fit ; Supercharged ; 1 Per Veh

Per Vehicle: 1; Years: 1995-1995

Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) 14244S
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I)   Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) EmptyMon Nov 19, 2012 7:35 pm

sniperdude wrote:
Are the heater hoses two piece hoses? Because on AC Delco's site it lists two molded heater hoses. These hoses don't look long enough to connect back to the metal pipes coming off of the engine. I haven't had a chance to remove the heat shielding off the hoses to look if they are 2 pieces.

HOSE,ENG COOL HTR
Part Number: 14184S
Product Notes:
HVAC Heater Hose
Pipe-1 To Pipe-2 ; Supercharged ; 1 Per Veh

Per Vehicle: 1; Years: 1995-1995

Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) 14184S

and

HOSE,ENG COOL HTR
Part Number: 14244S
Product Notes:
90 Deg Molded Heater Hose
Pipe-3 To Pipe-4 ; Cut to Fit ; Supercharged ; 1 Per Veh

Per Vehicle: 1; Years: 1995-1995

Write-Up: Tune Up (Series I) 14244S

there are 2 hoses, will be hard to tell from the pix because the pix are not to scale.

Mine had been on so long I had to cut them off with a razor and scrape the rubber off the metal pipes. Just sayin'...
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