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 Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area

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ERK
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Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area Empty
PostSubject: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 12:15 pm

Hello,

My 17 year old 206,000 mile Riviera is in need of a supercharger. I had a mechanic tell me he would do it for $3000, ouch! I really like the car but am finding it difficult to swallow a 3 grand repair job. I know SC for that car can be purchased for under $500.

I am looking for a mechanic knowledgeable about SC in the Detroit MI area who will work with me to keep my Riv on the road.

Sooo.....If anyone can help me out in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
ERK
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 12:24 pm

I can tell you right now that it doesn't need a whole supercharger. The coupler can go bad and make a rattle, or the bearings can go bad(though not really that common).

Very very few mechanics are knowlageable or familier with superchargers and will often want to replace the whole unit or mis-dignoise an issue as being the supercharger. Also the m62 blower for 95 can be gotten for like 100$ tops. (And swapping in a new blower can be done in an hour or less.)


What are the symptoms? IE. What is the car doing/not doing that you(or a mechanic) might think something is wrong with the SC?


EDIT: And I believe a member on here who is a mechanic is near your area. Username is Abaddon. But he hasn't been acitve lately.

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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 12:32 pm

Hello Karma,

Basically the car is making a noise that occurs when the car is in gear and idling at 800 rpm. Standing outside of the car it sounds like a diesel, it is a rattling sound.

If I increase the RPM to 1000 while still idling the noise goes away.

From a performance standpoint the car runs well, good acceleration, good gas mileage (19/29), smooth ride and no odd noises when the tach is above 1000 rpm.

To me the symptoms did not sound like the supercharger, but, I don't know what is causing it. I have been going to this mechanic for several years and do trust him but I think he may be mistaken on this current diagnosis.

Thanks for the reply.

ERK
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 12:38 pm

Sounds like the coupler to me. If so, the mechanic is partly right, but you won't need to replace the entire unit. The coupler is a 15$ part 29$ it you buy an upgraded part.

Edit: you can also pinpoint the rattle sound with a stethesope or even screwdriver against the ear, and touching the other end to the supercharger snout.

Edit2: And you can for sure diagnose the coupler as being bad by unspringing the supercharger belt tensioner with a wrench, removing the belt, and turning the pulley of the supercharger back and forth with your hand. If the coupler is bad, you will clearly feel the play between the pulley and the rotors.

I document changing a coupler here:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t4421-write-up-95sc-changing-the-coupler-in-an-eaton-m62

The m62 is a bit different than the m90 in later rivs in that the SC must be removed from the engine to change the coupler. (There is a bolt post that takes it through the alternator braket. Gets in the way of just pulling the snout off.) Taking the SC off the engine sounds daunting, but is actually pretty straightforward and might take 2 hours. If the SC gets removed you will need a SC gaskets and injector o-rings. If you do the work yourself total cost will be no more then 50$.

Edit3:
SC coupler is DORMAN Part # 917022
SC manifold gasket is FEL-PRO Part # MS95741
(Can't remember the part number of GM supercharger oil offhand. It can be gotten from the dealer.)

Or you can get both from ZZP:
www.zzperformance.com
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/62-GM-Supercharger-Oil.aspx
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/387-EATON-Replacement-Coupler.aspx
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/288-Series-I-3800-M62-Supercharger-Gasket.aspx

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ERK
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Name : Everette Keith
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 1:12 pm

Karma,

That is good news, unfortunately, I am no longer in a position to do the work myself. So, it comes down to finding a mechanic I can work with.

Hopefully someone will respond to this post pointing towards a mechanic in my neck of the woods.

Again, thanks for the advice.

ERK
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 1:29 pm

Karma,

A question. This all came about because I was getting ready to drive to NY in the Riv. Now, I will make other arrangements, but, do you think I can drive the car around town until I get it fixed?

I guess what I am asking is will/could the SC suddenly break apart destroying the engine cause that is what I was told could/would happen.

Thanks,
ERK
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 1:48 pm

ERK wrote:
Karma,

That is good news, unfortunately, I am no longer in a position to do the work myself. So, it comes down to finding a mechanic I can work with.

Hopefully someone will respond to this post pointing towards a mechanic in my neck of the woods.

Again, thanks for the advice.

ERK

I have a couple questions

1,whats wrong with you that you cant work on your car?
2,have you considered a plan to torch and destroy this guys shop for being such a thief?
3,the 3800 engine is stupid easy to work on.all you need to replace the coulper is a gasket.
4,like Karma sed,the SC can be swapped out in a few hours if youve neverdone it before with practically a crescent wrench and a few odd tools.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 1:50 pm

...and no the SC wont suddenly explode! but it will drive you crazy to such an extent that driving will make you so mad youll wanna like smoke pot or somthin
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:14 pm

You will be safe to drive it, its mostly just sound. I've never heard of a coupler actually exploding, though if it did I expect all you might do is burn a belt.

Send a PM to Abaddon on this forum. He's a mechanic in your area and might check in on the forum now and again. Or you might try tracking down the web URL in his contact info: http://www.showcasecollisioninc.com/ and see if you can contact them and find "Scott", if he is still afiliated with them.

Or simply show the write-up on the coupler change to your mechanic and see what he would charge to pull your SC off, drop in a new coupler and SC oil, and put it back on.

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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:15 pm

1. I'm in a wheel chair.
2. Yeah, can you believe it 3grand!!!
3. Again, I'm in wheel chair
4. I hear ya, I am trying to think of how to do this....perhaps my non-mechanically minded brother-in-law can help.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:27 pm

why are you in a wheelchair?
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:28 pm

Lost both my legs above the knee in Vietnam.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:31 pm

fuck. yeah Abaddon can hook ya up. nice guy.
R
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 2:35 pm

I just PM'd him so hopefully he'll get back to me.

Thanks for all your help!
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 4:21 pm

Karma,

I don't know if it's just me but when you say removing the SC is straightforward and I come across something with all these steps and warnings I get kinda nervous.

The how to R and R a supercharger appears to be quite comprehensive.

Check it out:
http://www.justanswer.com/car/0xv6w-replace-supercharger-1995-buick-riviera.html

ERK

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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 5:37 pm

Its straightforward in that the things on top get removed and it pulls off. Yes there are lots of steps, but only if you list each action as a step. The listing on just answer is correct, but many of the steps will only take a couple min each. There is also the odd thing like disconnecting the fuel rail from the fuel system thats not really needed. You can carefully pull it up and out of the way still connected, or use the quick disconnects further up. Also you can leave the throttle body on the supercharger. I find it makes an easy to grab part to break the gasket free.

Since the steps in your link were taken from the factory service manual, it says to not dismantle the supercharger. This is because the supercharger was not made by GM but by Eaton, and their only solution for repair is complete replacement. Don't worry about it, trust me when I say many many people have replaced the coupler and more only to their benefit. I've fully rebuilt many a supercharger and can confidently say no-one in North America reworks them as nicely as I do.


Any task can seem daunting at first, and then quite easy in hindsight, which is why many people on this forum might say something is easy. But I suppose its all about perspective. Like anything automotive related, as long as you take your time, take one thing at a time, its actually not bad.

For some more pics, check out the first part of my LIM changing writeup:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t4250-write-up-lower-intake-manifold-change-on-a-95#54603
(Keep in mine things like draining the coolant is for removing the LIM under the SC not the SC itself. So there are a few things that can be skipped.)

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charlieRobinson
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Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 6:23 pm

ERK wrote:
Hello,

My 17 year old 206,000 mile Riviera is in need of a supercharger. I had a mechanic tell me he would do it for $3000, ouch! I really like the car but am finding it difficult to swallow a 3 grand repair job. I know SC for that car can be purchased for under $500.
I am looking for a mechanic knowledgeable about SC in the Detroit MI area who will work with me to keep my Riv on the road.
Sooo.....If anyone can help me out in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
ERK

Call Bill. He is up around that area. He rebuilt AA's engine and he's the best there is at an awesome price with a guarantee to back up his work. The kind of mechanic we all need more of. Tell him Zach with the Riviera sent you.

586.202.5020

Edit:
I just called him. He ball parked it around ~$500. Give him a call for more details.
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charlieRobinson
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Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 6:35 pm

ERK wrote:
Lost both my legs above the knee in Vietnam.
And happy Veteran's day. Much respect to you. bow Thank you.
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albertj
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Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyTue Nov 13, 2012 9:20 pm

ERK wrote:
Karma,

I don't know if it's just me but when you say removing the SC is straightforward and I come across something with all these steps and warnings I get kinda nervous.

The how to R and R a supercharger appears to be quite comprehensive.

Check it out:
http://www.justanswer.com/car/0xv6w-replace-supercharger-1995-buick-riviera.html

ERK


From personal experience, the instructions on this site work fine to field-repair the supercharger coupler. Did it a while ago, no problem. The referrals on this site to Scott and Bill are good too.

Albertj
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 1:50 pm

Ya know I don't understand why so many mechanics are afraid of the word "supercharger". The couple of mechanics recommended by a couple of posts may not work out for me cause they live 50 miles away from me. I haven't ruled them out but have been looking locally for some help.

Of the half dozen shops I have talked with not one will work with me. The reasons range from, well, no reason otrher than "we won't work with superchargers" to "it's too complicated, there are too many things that can go wrong when taking one of 'those' apart". Even, shops that advertise themselves as engine rebuilders are afraid of them, go figure??!!

This is all kinda frustrating. I wish I had access to a garage..

ERK
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 1:58 pm

...Ok ERK, ill tell you why mechs are afraid of S/Cs..they think thay are alot more complicated than they are. a buddy of mine who has a shop and is ase certified and all that nonsense,sed to me " i really think you should think twice about taking the super charger apart!" what he was refering to was my willingness to service the coupler . most mechs think that the S/C has to be aligned and timed like an engine. you know with timing marks lined up an all that.it dont! after you remove the ancilaries you just pull the snout ,remove the coupler and replace with a new one. you can have your neighbor there with you and for shits and giggles while the coupler is replaced,spin the shit outa the impellers for the hell of it. then you just slap the snout back on and drive.simple.
if you dont have a fsm,you should get one.the process is detailed and a buddy can swap it out in an hour or two.


Last edited by robotennis61 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ERK
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 2:57 pm

OK, that explains why one of the shops I called the guy went on and on about the very things you bring up in your post. I'm thinking, "what the f**k are you talking about?" I laugh at people who try to impress me with their ignorance.

I will get this fixed!

ERK
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robotennis61
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Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area Empty
PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 3:01 pm

...yeah,they raise their eybrows in emphasis! it just means that theyre about to hit you with a fat estimate!
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 3:36 pm

yup. Can't change the timing of a supercharger's rotors unless you pull the gears off the rotor pack. The pack can come out, put back in, bearings out-in, snout seal out-in, coupler out in, pack from some other supercharger put in, and nothing changes the timing.

You can even take the rotor pack out, and put in back in upside-down(after a little drilling, you couldn't do this by accident) and the timing hasn't changed. Though of interest if you put it in backwards it effectively changes the required spin direction. This is how Honda guys adapt an Eaton blower for their engines which spin in the opposite direction as ours. But I digress.

Now some of the outlet/inlet machining that can be done can change inlet duration/dwell and shift the timing relationship vs. the inlet, but think of it more as changing a ratio in an equation and the other-side will always change to match.

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PostSubject: Re: Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area   Need of a mechanic for my SC 1995 Riviera Detroit MI area EmptyFri Nov 16, 2012 4:32 pm

Karma wrote:
yup. Can't change the timing of a supercharger's rotors unless you pull the gears off the rotor pack. The pack can come out, put back in, bearings out-in, snout seal out-in, coupler out in, pack from some other supercharger put in, and nothing changes the timing.

You can even take the rotor pack out, and put in back in upside-down(after a little drilling, you couldn't do this by accident) and the timing hasn't changed. Though of interest if you put it in backwards it effectively changes the required spin direction. This is how Honda guys adapt an Eaton blower for their engines which spin in the opposite direction as ours. But I digress.

Now some of the outlet/inlet machining that can be done can change inlet duration/dwell and shift the timing relationship vs. the inlet, but think of it more as changing a ratio in an equation and the other-side will always change to match.

Ha Ha! Am sure your local mech will shudder with shock & awe whilst you lay this on him smile
And then ask you to repeat.
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