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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
Location : Litchfield, Maine
Joined : 2011-09-05
Post Count : 120
Merit : 2

PostSubject: seats   Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:12 pm

My 95 Riv with SC now has another problem that is seat related. I moved my driver's seat to recline and it went all the way to the rear seat. That was what I expected but it would not come back up at all. To explore the problem I took the seat right off the runners so I could see what was happening. I checked the switch and it had juice. I tested the wire right into the motor when the switch is activated and both are positive. So the motor is getting current on both wires but it will only recline. I looked at my big (2 book) manual and it doesn't help very much. When I tried to remove the motor in question I could not figure out how to remove it because of the drive mechanisms that are enclosed in a plastic tubing. The motor is detached but both ends have that plastic tubing which I think encloses whatever drives the seat to incline/recline. So it reclines and the other switches work too. How do I get my motor out to get it fixed or replaced? I need to detach the drive mechanisms that make it go up and down. How do I do that?
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bigdave
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Location : Cheektowaga , NY (Buffalo)
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Just a guess, but from my experience, your problem is more likely the switch or a bad connection than a bad motor. When you test for power at the motor, one wire should be hot 12v, and the other should be ground when you apply the switch one way. When you apply the switch the other way, the polarity should reverse. The wire that was hot becomes ground and the one that was ground becomes hot. Try testing this before pulling to much of your seat apart.
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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
Location : Litchfield, Maine
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Merit : 2

PostSubject: seats   Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:58 pm

The wiring appears to be doing what it is supposed to do. But the seat only functions in one direction. It doesn't respond to the up position at all. Where are all you experts? Come on Albert, tell me what to do. How do I get that motor out without breaking things?
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albertj
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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:25 am

I don't have experience with this problem, and think you should take bigdave's advice then report back.
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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
Location : Litchfield, Maine
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Merit : 2

PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:44 pm

Come on Albert. If you read posts 2 + 3 you know I already did that. The switch works but the motor only works in one direction, even though the wires are live (one at a time) when the switch is activated. I think I need to remove the motor but don't want to break anything. What's the easiest way to get it out?
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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
Location : Litchfield, Maine
Joined : 2011-09-05
Post Count : 120
Merit : 2

PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:56 pm

Although my merit is zero I find my 95 Riv with SC quite amusing as time goes on. Now that it is winter and I must use the heater I pray that it will be working each and every time I start the car. Problem is, it doesn't always work. And as a bonus, when the heater does not work, the transmission will not shift. It seems to be in either OD or the next lowest gear and stays there. That makes it tough to accelerate without abusing the transmission. The good news is that eventually the heater kicks on and the transmission works. Of course, the heater only works correctly in the defrost mode but at least it works. Another thing I like is that the light in the glove box does not work unless the ignition key is turned on. Speaking of lights, when I open the door I expect the interior lights to come on but guess what?? About 95% of the time they do not. I have to turn them on manually with the light switch. At least the cruise control is consistent. It hasn't worked since I have owned the car. Now that it is winter in Maine it really is handy to use the windshield washer with the road salts and all. Mine does not work although after I fill the reservoir and activate the washer I can hear the pump working. But where is the solvent going? Not on my windshield. And when I get out and look under the hood, like magic, all the fluid is gone. In trying to trace it's whereabouts I see no apparent leaks anywhere around the container but yet the fluid is gone. Just another Riviera mystery. Speaking of mysteries you should hear my radio as it goes from one band to another or to that third band in never never land. Just static. You gotta love it. There are other issues but perhaps for another post. I am tempted to get out my 63 Riv so I know things work but I don't want the salt to rust her out. I bet now my merit will drop to minus something!
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bigdave
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Name : Dave
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Location : Cheektowaga , NY (Buffalo)
Joined : 2010-10-17
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Merit : 22

PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:05 pm

jbeganny wrote:
Come on Albert. If you read posts 2 + 3 you know I already did that. The switch works but the motor only works in one direction, even though the wires are live (one at a time) when the switch is activated. I think I need to remove the motor but don't want to break anything. What's the easiest way to get it out?

Did you check if the wire opposite of power is switching to ground?
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AA
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Location : C-bus, Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:26 pm

In the car's defense, laughing at problems won't make them go away. I'm sure the previous owner of your car found these issues equally amusing, or else frustrating. Either way, it seems things were let go. The interesting thing about most cars, especially ones with lots of gizmos - when you let too many things go at once, the problems can seem to compound themselves, whether they are actually related or not. Diagnosis can be near impossible with so much going on, making it seem even more mysterious. Where do you start?

First, your heater/transmission problem seems to be a clue. These systems are not related. They're not on the same circuits. I would be 100% sure they are both failing at the same time, or does it just seem like they are? The only thing I know of that links these two systems is they operate on electricity. A simple voltage test could reveal the problem. Do you have between 13-15vdc with the engine running? If not in that range, you could have a problem with the battery, thermistor, or the alternator/regulator itself. Does the voltage change when you're experiencing the problem? COuld be a short.

I am not sure (since I've never had the same problem) but I think there is a 2nd washer reservoir below the small one that you fill with fluid. Your leak could be on the line leading down to, or away from the 2nd tank. Or it could be the 2nd reservoir is cracked. This happens on lots of cars, even older ones. Your jets may be clogged, too, causing them not to spray. This most likely happened when dirt got into the system at some point.


_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
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EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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Because fun
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:44 pm

AA wrote:
In the car's defense, laughing at problems won't make them go away. I'm sure the previous owner of your car found these issues equally amusing, or else frustrating. Either way, it seems things were let go. The interesting thing about most cars, especially ones with lots of gizmos - when you let too many things go at once, the problems can seem to compound themselves, whether they are actually related or not. Diagnosis can be near impossible with so much going on, making it seem even more mysterious. Where do you start?

First, your heater/transmission problem seems to be a clue. These systems are not related. They're not on the same circuits. I would be 100% sure they are both failing at the same time, or does it just seem like they are? The only thing I know of that links these two systems is they operate on electricity. A simple voltage test could reveal the problem. Do you have between 13-15vdc with the engine running? If not in that range, you could have a problem with the battery, thermistor, or the alternator/regulator itself. Does the voltage change when you're experiencing the problem? COuld be a short.

I am not sure (since I've never had the same problem) but I think there is a 2nd washer reservoir below the small one that you fill with fluid. Your leak could be on the line leading down to, or away from the 2nd tank. Or it could be the 2nd reservoir is cracked. This happens on lots of cars, even older ones. Your jets may be clogged, too, causing them not to spray. This most likely happened when dirt got into the system at some point.


About the washer fluid, sometimes fluid that sits a while will develop sediment. The sediment will easily clog jets. Often this can be fixed by removing the jets and heating them in a vinegar bath of water near boiling.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:49 pm

jbeganny wrote:
Come on Albert. If you read posts 2 + 3 you know I already did that. The switch works but the motor only works in one direction, even though the wires are live (one at a time) when the switch is activated. I think I need to remove the motor but don't want to break anything. What's the easiest way to get it out?

I don't have experience with this problem, and (strongly) recommend you get a service manual.

Good luck and peace out.

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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
Location : Litchfield, Maine
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Merit : 2

PostSubject: Re: seats   Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:58 am

Albert, I do have a service manual and it does not help in this case. My washer reservoir losing the fluid is not clogged jets. Dave's explanation of the lower tank makes sense and I will check it out. Dave, the original owner was a lady from Florida and the service records were in the glove box. I called her and as a result I believe any problem she experienced was taken care of promptly. Whomever owned the car in between that lady and myself may have neglected it. I bought the car from a dealer who purchased it at auction here in Maine. That was almost a year ago and the car had 59K on it. I have put about 5K on it this past year. It was not running just right when I got it but new plugs and wires seemed to solve that problem. Thanks to the forum for that. These other issues came with the car. But Dave, I am sure that the heater and transmission problem is correct. They may not be related directly but I am sure that when the heater does not work, the transmission does not shift. When I say the heater does not work I am referring to the whole control panel that operates the heater/AC. Nothing lights up on the whole panel. Then it comes on. Sometimes it comes on immediately. I have not tested it for voltage but I will and get back to you. Thanks for the help.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:02 am

jbeganny wrote:
Albert, I do have a service manual and it does not help in this case. My washer reservoir losing the fluid is not clogged jets. Dave's explanation of the lower tank makes sense and I will check it out. Dave, the original owner was a lady from Florida and the service records were in the glove box. I called her and as a result I believe any problem she experienced was taken care of promptly. Whomever owned the car in between that lady and myself may have neglected it. I bought the car from a dealer who purchased it at auction here in Maine. That was almost a year ago and the car had 59K on it. I have put about 5K on it this past year. It was not running just right when I got it but new plugs and wires seemed to solve that problem. Thanks to the forum for that. These other issues came with the car. But Dave, I am sure that the heater and transmission problem is correct. They may not be related directly but I am sure that when the heater does not work, the transmission does not shift. When I say the heater does not work I am referring to the whole control panel that operates the heater/AC. Nothing lights up on the whole panel. Then it comes on. Sometimes it comes on immediately. I have not tested it for voltage but I will and get back to you. Thanks for the help.

Factory manual or chiltons?
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jbeganny
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Name : John Beganny
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:19 pm

Albert, it is the big two book factory manual.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: seats   Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:29 am

Then it might be appropriate to proceed by looking at the instructions for, say, removing and reinstalling the windshield washier bottle and pump.

One issue with a factory manual is that when written, the authors can not anticipate the issues that will over a very long time, in your case after 17 years of vehicle use. This is one reason many people like, and sometimes prefer, the Haynes manuals, as they are written by knowledgeable mechanics. Who dismantle and reassemble a vehicle after some years of service. Problem is, there is no Haynes for the Riv.

As a consequence, you are more or less left with applying troubleshooting techniques which, although taught in a vo-tech or military field maintenance training setting are not detailed in the service manual. I have noticed that various manufacturer's manuals vary a lot, even within a marque, as to what general troubleshooting they teach. N the case of the Riv, the manual's authors do not give a consistent depth of general troubleshooting knowhow across the car's systems. It does give enough info to field-dismantle and reassemble the vehicle and as you can see by skimming it, much detail about certain subsystems. But you won't find much about finding and fixing some problems. So you may ask why bother with the manual? One reason is that when to are troubleshooting a subsystem (the seats or the windshield washers) you may benefit from having a reference for dismantling and reassembling if only so you don't break stuff while troubleshooting. Ingeneral, in your case this probably means taking out the windshield washer tank or at least following the instructions so as to get enough stuff off so you can inspect it and ascertain for yourself the cause of the problem. For the seats it probably means troubleshooting wiring and controls.

(End)
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