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 Write-Up: Brake Line Repair

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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:04 pm

Well after searching hi and low Im just going to get a 25' coil and go to town on it tomorrow.

The game plan is to use "adapters" to get away from the funky GM metric bubble flare. Especially since the local parts stores dont carry the metric tubing...

So fun fun fun. Im thrilled.

Will try to get pictures also.
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:06 am

Well its raining out and the overhang I get to use only covers so much of the car.

So today Im just going to replace the actual blown line, only. I will wait until its a little warmer and alot dryer out to do the other two.

Im still going to buy a coil of tube anticipating the next job...

The broken line out of the car. Unfortunately it broke apart where it blew when trying to get it out. Will make it fun trying to bend it up...



Lines to the front:




The crossover that blew while in the car:


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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:47 pm

Get a good bender and whatever medication you need to stay calm. You are about to be hating life real soon. I've bent three or four fuel lines for the Charger, and I've got a couple that'd work, but none fit as well as the original.
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:54 pm

Actually I got it all bent up.

The issue now is the lines 4" to long and I cant find a bubble flare to save my hind end...

Well unless I want to pay $110 for one...

So Im gonna put a z bend in the line to take up the space...
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:09 pm

Ok I got it in!

Waiting on help to arrive to bleed the brakes now.

I guess I only need to bleed the rears? Or do I really need to do the fronts?

I also found the reason why our breaks would "hum". The passenger rear claiper had the rotor seized up pretty good. Wasnt seized enough to break the lugs loose, but seized hard enough to snug them back up...

Where the black tube was is now a huge funky Z Bend to take up the about 4-5" extra length I had.

I ended up using an M10x1 Metric Bubble union.

Ive ordered a metric bubble flare for when I do the front to rear lines, which will be early this spring.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:55 pm

It fit well?
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:01 pm

Well enough rofl...

Actually my bend job was very good. I had to tweak it a little bit but not much.

The worst part was the extra length.

Not a job for the timid. I dont have a lot of patience but i was able to pull this off, which amazes me!
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:27 pm

What did you use for a bender?
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:56 pm

Let's see a pic of your handy work! surprised My rear brakes were seized because the emergency brake cable was rusty and was locked in the engaged position after the mechanic who was servicing the brakes stepped on the e-brake pedal. So you might want to check that.


Last edited by BMD on Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:08 pm

Yes, I forgot to mention shortly after replacing all the hydraulic lines and putting on EBC rotors and pads, I had an E-Brake cable seize on me and almost warped a brand new rotor.
Luckily I was close enough to home when I smelled it that I was able to get under the car without jacking it up and cut the cable with a cut-off wheel. Saved the rotor, it didn't warp.
But that incident made me inspect all the cables and decide that i would need to replace every one of them if I didn't want more problems in the near future.
So www.monsterpartsonline.com made some money on me, because i bought all GM cables.
The cable that stuck was a Raybestos from my local auto parts store that was less than a year old.
After comparing prices for all the cables - Raybestos or GM from Monster - GM from Monsterparts won out on cost and better manufacturing. The GM cables are thicker diameter and have better shielding on them.
Replaced every single one of them from the pedal in the cockpit to the rear wheels.
Should be good for another 10 years.
I'll tell you it cost a lot more to operate a car in general in the snow and salt belt than down south.
While i lived down south i never had to replace a muffler, brake lines, cables, etc due to rust and corrosion.
And I didn't have to pay special attention to certain things on a seasonal basis due to the accumulated salt and sand. So much less expensive to operate a car down yonder.


Last edited by Rickw on Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:47 pm

Ryan from Ohio wrote:
Ok I got it in!

Waiting on help to arrive to bleed the brakes now.

I guess I only need to bleed the rears? Or do I really need to do the fronts?

I also found the reason why our breaks would "hum". The passenger rear claiper had the rotor seized up pretty good. Wasnt seized enough to break the lugs loose, but seized hard enough to snug them back up...

Where the black tube was is now a huge funky Z Bend to take up the about 4-5" extra length I had.

I ended up using an M10x1 Metric Bubble union.

Ive ordered a metric bubble flare for when I do the front to rear lines, which will be early this spring.
Regarding the bleeding:
The Right Rear and Left Front share the same reservoir and the Left Rear and Right front share the other part of the reservoir.
So you may have to do both.
Just try gravity bleeding first, when you start to get some fluid out of the bleeders from gravity close that screw and do the same for all the others. Then have someone get in the car and do a normal bleed, but at this point you may only need to do one push with the pedal per caliper and be done.
It has worked this way for me the few times I have had to bleed the brakes in the last 3 years on the Riv.

BTW, what are you going to do about the seized rear caliper. If it's the E-Brake cable that's one thing (cut it and you'll know if the caliper frees up) but if it's the caliper piston seizing in the bore, then you need to replace it now with a re-man unit from the auto parts store or rebuild yourself with a rebuild kit that i think is only available from GM, IIRC.
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:54 pm

I looked at monsterparts.com and it appears to be motorcycle parts only?

Anyhow I didnt post last night because I was to mad to. When I went to bleed the rear brakes the one bleeder was stuck hardcore. Tried heat, nadda. It broke off.

Ended up pulling the caliper off. I got very lucky and got it out. Ended up drilling a 3/16" pilot hole then another hole about tap drill size for about 1/2" or so deep. This allowed us to muscle it out, with LOTS of heat.

It barely came out still, but it did.

So its all in and done.

I had a hell of a time with the parking brake cable. I found out they are frooze up enough where they wont fully return. Between the cable and the caliper springs being weak.

As for the caliper hanging up.

Ive found I have to break the bleeder loose while using the break tool to push the piston back. Its the only way.

After getting it back together I noticed the passenger side hanging up, again. So I took the dead blow and beat it up a bit, which freed it all up.

The car will now idle from a dead stand still where it wouldnt before. However they are still dragging a bit more than I like.

I believe I will be rebuilding these if easy enough. Not right now but near future



.

Sorry thats as good of pics as I can get. I didnt get one before installing it.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:35 pm

Ryan i screwed up, The GM dealer who sells parts on-line for a discount is:
www.Monsterpartsonline.com
And you do know that to retract the rear caliper pistons you have to rotate them with a small spanner type tool. Looks like a cube, and you rotate the pistons clockwise to retract them. If you have compressed them with a c-clamp or similar type tool that just pushes them back in the bore you can damage the internals.
Your probably better off getting two rear reman calipers.
I had to when I encountered all my problems with the brakes.
At the time, my problems seem to just keep going on and on, finding out i couldn't salvage anything due to corrosion and age.
Started with the brake lines, then all new e-brake cables, then when one caliper seized up I ended up replacing both with reman units.


Last edited by Rickw on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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BrianEsser
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:45 pm

Looks like a typical Ohio car to me. lol I've got a seeping line underneath mine, I'm waiting till it warms up and drys out and will be bending all new lines as well. It's really not a hard job to do at all. Especially if your local parts store has all the correct adapters to allow you to go from bubble flare to standard flare so if you need to replace a line later down the road it will be even easier.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:53 pm

Maybe it isn't as bad as the fuel line I bent - wanna come down here and try your hand at it Ryan? lol
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:51 pm

Nice work Ryan! Looks like a job we're all gonna have to face sooner or later. BTW, is that a 69 Camaro in the background?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:44 am

BMD wrote:
BTW, is that a 69 Camaro in the background?
I didn't notice the "blue" car in the background till you mentioned it. Good eye.
And if it is a 69 Camaro, what's it doing outside this time of year.? Unless you don't have the kind of sand and salt still on the roads like we do here.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:57 am

Ryan, I hope you don't mind but i have a couple of questions:
Ryan from Ohio wrote:

Between the cable and the caliper springs being weak.
As for the caliper hanging up.

Ive found I have to break the bleeder loose while using the break tool to push the piston back. Its the only way.

After getting it back together I noticed the passenger side hanging up, again. So I took the dead blow and beat it up a bit, which freed it all up.

The car will now idle from a dead stand still where it wouldnt before. However they are still dragging a bit more than I like.
What caliper springs -being weak.?

Already mentioned the concern over forcing the pistons into the bore without rotating them.

Don't quite understand how beating the caliper with the Dead Blow solved the hanging up problem.

And the whole sentence on idling makes no sence to me at all.
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:04 am

Yes thats a 69 Z-28

Its my Dads and it has sat out all winter this year, uncovered in the snow. Hes laid off and couldnt afford the storage this year...


Rickw wrote:
Ryan, I hope you don't mind but i have a couple of questions:
Ryan from Ohio wrote:

Between the cable and the caliper springs being weak.
As for the caliper hanging up.

Ive found I have to break the bleeder loose while using the break tool to push the piston back. Its the only way.

After getting it back together I noticed the passenger side hanging up, again. So I took the dead blow and beat it up a bit, which freed it all up.

The car will now idle from a dead stand still where it wouldnt before. However they are still dragging a bit more than I like.
What caliper springs -being weak.?

Already mentioned the concern over forcing the pistons into the bore without rotating them.

Don't quite understand how beating the caliper with the Dead Blow solved the hanging up problem.

And the whole sentence on idling makes no sence to me at all.

Its all good.

There is a spring on the caliper that pushes the parking brake arm back. Theres also a spring on the parking break cable. When released between both they should take up the slack of the cable. Well ours dont, the springs are to weak and the cable is to sticky... The ones on the caliper cant even return the lever without the cable attached.

Now a big deal, we dont use the parking brake. The land here is flat, literally.

I have a brake tool to turn the piston while pushing. I use a 6" extension, "the cube" and a ratchet. I break the bleeder to do it.

I think its a combination problem. I dont think the pistons moving freely and I think the brake hardware needs replaced. The pins dont float in the caliper well. So I think its causing the hang ups.

Idling...

Before if I put the car in drive it wouldnt idle forward- unless I gave it gas to get it moving. Then it had enough power to idle. Now I can just put it in drive, release the brake and it idles forward/reverse.

Its pretty evident it needs new calipers. Its just not right how much they still drag. Trouble is its going to have to wait a few weeks until we get the $$$ for it...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:55 am

I replaced both brake lines from the factory union located below the passenger seat all the way back each rear caliper. Best I could tell, the lines from the union to the cylinder and lines to front calipers still looked in decent enough shape, so I left them. I spent the $$$ and bought some bending pliers from NAPA and they worked well. The bubble flare end lines I bought in straight sections. I started from each end (front union and rear caliper working toward each other, of course trying to replicate the old lines I took out. Then, where they met I used a compression fitting. This morning before work I finished the oil pain gasket and got the fluids back in it. So, tonight I'll take it for a test drive, get on the brakes hard some and then make sure there are no leaks. Figured I'd drive it to work a couple days, then check again. If all looks well at that point, then I guess the brake lines replacement was a success.
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PostSubject: Brakes went out   Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:26 pm

Fortunately just as I was pulling in the driveway. The brake light had been coming on while taking off at stop signs as I was headed home. The car has been sitting for the past week undriven.

Any ideas on how to fix these? Do I need dealership lines or can I get what I need from an auto parts store? This is one area I've never had to mess with. The underside of the car is unusually rusty. The leaks are on the passenger side and directly in the middle of the car. Pics in the next post.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:26 pm



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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:33 pm

Oh boy. That's not going to be fun. Be prepared for a big job. I don't think the dealer even sells pre-formed lines anymore, let alone an auto parts store. I remember having to bend my own out of 6'-8' pieces for jobs like that....even on 2 year old cars (accidents).
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:43 pm

That's what I was afraid of. I can get a 25ft roll of steel brake line for $20 and rent a bender, but that's going to be a huge PITA as I don't even know which fittings I will need and so forth.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Brake Line Repair   Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:54 pm

It's not the end of the world. You can fix this for not a lot of $, but it will take some work.

First thing: don't try to drive the car on street. Next thing: don't pump the brake with someone under the car. A stream of high pressure brake fluid can be extremely dangerous!

You can try to get replacement lines at the dealer, but they might not be available, and if they are you will pay the price, and they could be hard to install.

First, remove the bad lines from the car. You'll need flare (line) wrenches and a penetrating oil such as PB Blaster. Be careful. If the lines twist or break, you can cut them and use a socket to remove the fittings.

Straight steel line is available at most auto parts stores in different lengths, including fittings on each end. You will need to match the line diameter to OEM and buy in sections that are close to the length of your OEM lines. You can run a piece of string along the OEM lines to approximate the needed length of straight pieces. You may need to connect two or more lines together for long or complex bends. Make sure you match the size of your OEM fittings at the AMS pump, master cylinder, etc. Don't buy stainless steel lines unless you've worked with it before - it can crack.

In some cases you will need to cut the new line to length and use a double flare tool ($20) for creating a new fitting location. It's not that hard if you plan things out and fit everything together first. You will need a tube bender ($5) to try and duplicate the OEM bends. I like to use the old OEM line pieces to model from, using them as a guide to bend the new straight lines to match.

It can be a RPITA, but really it's cheap to do, maybe only $35 in parts & tools. You'll want to flush the brake fluid and replace with new. Depending on condition, new front brake hoses might also be a good idea.

Best of luck.

_________________
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Last edited by AA on Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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