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 Tcc chuggle

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sloshua
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sloshua

Name : sloshua
Age : 43
Location : Lebanon,MO
Joined : 2014-06-08
Post Count : 80
Merit : 1

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PostSubject: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptyThu Jul 03, 2014 9:22 am

I found this today while researching a problem I have with me 95  clap 

File In Section: 6E - Engine Fuel & Emission

Bulletin No.: 53-65-06A

Date: June, 1997
Subject:
Driveline Vibration Over 37 mph (Replace PROM)

Models:

1994-95 Buick LeSabre, Park Avenue, Ultra
1995 Buick Riviera
1994-95 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight, Ninety Eight
1994-95 Pontiac Bonneville

with 3.8L 3800 Engine (VINs L, K, 1 - RPOs L27, L36, L67)

This bulletin is being revised to include vehicles with supercharged (L67) engines. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 53-65-06
(Section 6E - Engine Fuel & Emission).

Condition

Some owners may comment on a condition described as a "vibration", "miss", "chuggle", "hesitation", or "fishbite" sensation while driving the vehicle at 37 mph or higher.

Cause

With the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) engaged, any powertrain or vehicle rotating disturbance is transmitted to the passenger compartment.
Important: Verify concern with owner before proceeding with correction.

Correction

Determine that the following conditions do not exist before proceeding:
1. Out-of-balance tires

2. Out-of round tires

3. Engine miss due to ignition related components or an inoperative mechanical function

4. A/C compressor cycling

5. TCC malfunctions causing excessive slip values as measured with a scan tool; or

6. Specific road conditions

If it is determined that the above conditions are not present and no other conditions are causing the concern as outlined in Section 6E3-B in the appropriate Service Manual, replace PROM (refer to ATTACHMENT 1). FOR SUPERCHARGED L67 ENGINES, CONTACT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE.

This PROM will only raise the third gear TCC lock from 37 to 50 mph and fourth gear TCC lock from 45 to 54 mph for vehicles equipped with VIN "L" and "K" only. Refer to Section 6E3-C1 in the appropriate Service Manual for PROM replacement procedures.
Important: No other driveability issues are addressed with this PROM.

VERIFY THE CONCERN IS NO LONGER OCCURRING BEFORE RETURNING THE VEHICLE TO THE OWNER.
Note 1 The revised PROMS are not considered a 100% cure; however, most owners do not perceive the "chuggle" or "fishbite" sensation with the higher TCC lock up speeds.

Note 2 The revised PROMS may adversely affect fuel economy (usually less than one mpg depending on individual driving habits). Be sure to advise the vehicle owner of this fact.

If upon replacing the PROM the condition is still present, contact Technical Assistance for further instruction.
Note 3 For supercharged engines, review Corporate Bulletin Number 77-65-15 as another possible cause of chuggle.

I also read in a few spots on the web that the TPS can cause this along with wornout spark plugs and wires.
Wish there was a site with all the service bulletins for these cars, apparently this tcc lock up issue has sent many of these cars to the junk yard early because its so damn expensive to fix or even trouble shoot.
So does "PROM" mean that you can change the lock up speeds with a tuner or at the dealership or do you haft to replace the eprom in the computer its self ?

Just thought I would share this
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sloshua
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sloshua

Name : sloshua
Age : 43
Location : Lebanon,MO
Joined : 2014-06-08
Post Count : 80
Merit : 1

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PostSubject: Re: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptySat Jul 19, 2014 7:30 pm

Just an update today I got around to changing the plugs and wires! Im on my 14th beer after this task and I haft to say it was a major pita to get under the car and get up into that small space to get the wires and plugs out.... To the guys who can get to them from the top more power to ya. I been a brake press operator since I was 19 and I am 37 now so I'm no weakling Id rather get a root canal than do this again! Any ways the plugs were thrashed especially the one in front of the o2 sensor someone must have skipped that one at some point just to be a lazy ass as the j on the plug was almost gone.
Car runs a lot better now starts clean with no long cranking. But engine still has no power under load, I tested the throttle position sensor voltage swing and its nice and clean when cold and warm I am not able to test the frequency swing of the MAF sensor cus the fluke mm I have does not do frequency so I am gonna replace the maf its the orig hitachi so its time to go. I cleaned and tested the egr its toasted the plug thing in the egr isnt sealing correctly so I think that is some of the problem not to mention egr valve take alot of heat and abuse and this one is orig acdelco so its time swap that out and see what happens. I tested voltage while car is running got 14.66 volts seems kinda high ? It has the stock battery in it from the sticker its 4 years old so not to far off, I was unable to find the thermistor on the battery so that might be the reason why its charging so hard. All in all it was a very productive day I had a friend take me up to the boozery alil bit ago and the car ran like a bat out of hell  a few times but then nosed over other times when hard on the throttle. I am having mixed thoughts on this car I cant tell if its electric fuel or torque convertor not unlocking, it kicks down at wot so who knows... Ill replace all this electrical stuff and if that dont fix ill take it in and see whats happening. The only time its thrown a check engine light is when I was testing the throttle position sensor and forgot I still had the multimeter hooked up to it when I started it, but key off and back on light was gone.... By the way I was able to locate the tcc chuggle prom mentioned in the factory service bulletin. My riv shifts fine now that I have all the leaks fixed just haft to solve this misfire low fuel pressure or egr valve nightmare....
here is  the prom thas programmed for higher tcc lock out speeds http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Delco-E-Prom-ECM-Prom-16217623-BPEC-Calibrator-1995-Application-Unknown-/281377137473?vxp=mtr
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jbird
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jbird

Name : Jeff
Location : Cleveland area
Joined : 2013-11-11
Post Count : 318
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PostSubject: Re: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptySun Jul 20, 2014 5:49 pm

Sounds like you're dedicated to see it through!
Good luck, hope you get it all resolved.

Jbird
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sloshua
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sloshua

Name : sloshua
Age : 43
Location : Lebanon,MO
Joined : 2014-06-08
Post Count : 80
Merit : 1

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PostSubject: Re: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptyTue Jul 22, 2014 2:23 pm

Thanks Jeff I did all the coil pack tests today and found one that was bad and replaced it BIG time difference  clap .
Still a bit of a sputter under load so Ill prolly replace the other 2 coils one every paycheck. The coil I had to replace was open between the plug terminals the other 2 coil packs tested 5.9kohm between the plug terminals. Kind of weird if both fire at the same time should they not have any resistance between them at all ? Makes me think that the coils have a separate winding in them for each terminal. This weekend I'm gonna test from primary to secondary on all the coils and see what readings I get compared to new and old. In the end I am prolly gonna replace the wiring harness as well since I see so many threads about old cracked wires causing problems So I am researching prices on a complete harness  study 
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sloshua
Member
sloshua

Name : sloshua
Age : 43
Location : Lebanon,MO
Joined : 2014-06-08
Post Count : 80
Merit : 1

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PostSubject: Re: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptyThu Jan 15, 2015 5:30 pm

Finally figured out why the car was missing under load when in over drive, it was the throttle position sensor. For the longest time I have just been throwing parts at it since the computer wasn't tripping any codes. So yesterday I was on the hiway cruisin along at 70 and go up this big hill naturally the cruise control applies more gas going up a hill and the car as usual starts to misfire underload. So i tap the brake and slap the gas pedal with my foot and it kicks down gear and accelerates real nice so I try this again and get same result, then i slowly apply gas and get the pedal about half way down and the misfire happens then I slap the pedal with my foot and it kicks down out of overdrive and runs like a top. On my way home I pick up a throttle position sensor since its the only thing I have not replaced other than the egr valve that has passed all tests and boom problem fixed. Now it runs real nice with the cruise control on going up hill and does what its suposed to do. This has really made my day to finally have this problem fixed I love this car only thing left to do is replace the lower control arms and do some more suspension work. I have a stack of reciepts from all the parts iv replaced and the car just keeps gettin better and better! cheers
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jbird
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jbird

Name : Jeff
Location : Cleveland area
Joined : 2013-11-11
Post Count : 318
Merit : 6

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PostSubject: Re: Tcc chuggle    Tcc chuggle  EmptyFri Jan 16, 2015 7:38 am

Congrats!
Good to finally get there I'm sure.

Happy motoring. 3gears

Jbird
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