Riviera Owners Association Feedback

Hi everyone.  I am a board member in the Riviera Owners Association and wanted to get an idea from all of you if you belong and if not, why?

I am new to the board and looking for ideas as to how to improve the magazine, including adding articles about the last gen Riv's and the many modifications that can be made to these great future classics.  (For those of you that are not familiar with the club, yearly dues are $30.)  

Hope to hear from many of you regarding your thoughts and ideas.

Regards,

Darrell Ingold
Board Secretary
ROA #1237
1963 Riviera - family owned since new
1985 Convertible - 165k and still going strong
Looking to add a GEN 8 as well - just don't tell my wife!

I used to belong to the ROA. I was a member and participated actively in the email lists for many years. There wasn't much love for the 8th gens at the time, but I stuck with the group anyway, since I own a 'brother' to the Riv, a '73 LeSabre. Eventually I sold my '98 so I let my membership drop.

I was always a little disappointed that I couldn't ever come to a national meet, because they were always in June. My family has kids in school and my wife is a teacher, so anything in June was out... July and August are the only times I can do things long distance. There were a few east coast meets that I really wanted to go to, but they weren't family friendly. It's nice to have a car meet at a gorgeous estate, but for a multi-day event it needs to be someplace family friendly too.

Good luck with the ROA. It was always a fantastic group of people and I hope it still is!

I think the lack of meets for me to attend would keep me from joining as well. I (we) have a good family right here at Rivperformance. I've met a few of the members here, and some that I haven't met, and probably never will, I chat with on a "regular" basis. Also, as deekster has stated, not too many people own 8th gens in car clubs If there was more of a crowd in my area that would meet up and hang out I'd consider it.

Anybody looking for mods or repair info is MORE than welcome to join us here!

Yep, no real love for the east coast either. I joined for a year and never really saw anything out of it. The magazines were kinda cool, even though they're only bi-monthly.

deekster_caddy wrote:

I used to belong to the ROA. I was a member and participated actively in the email lists for many years. There wasn't much love for the 8th gens at the time, but I stuck with the group anyway, since I own a 'brother' to the Riv, a '73 LeSabre. Eventually I sold my '98 so I let my membership drop.

I was always a little disappointed that I couldn't ever come to a national meet, because they were always in June. My family has kids in school and my wife is a teacher, so anything in June was out... July and August are the only times I can do things long distance. There were a few east coast meets that I really wanted to go to, but they weren't family friendly. It's nice to have a car meet at a gorgeous estate, but for a multi-day event it needs to be someplace family friendly too.

Good luck with the ROA. It was always a fantastic group of people and I hope it still is!

I understand your point, I have small kids too and it needs to be a family friendly location. The timing was also a problem for me. My wife is a teacher here in NY and school is not out until the 3rd week of June so she can't go.

Since joining the board, I have brought up these concerns and now this year's meet is at the end of June, (6/30-7/3). The location is also family friendly. Most of the members are older than us and their kids are grown so this issue has mostly been ignored. Rest assured, I will make sure that going forward the meets will be more family friendly and with better timing for us where school ends later.

Riv Fan wrote:

Since joining the board, I have brought up these concerns and now this year's meet is at the end of June, (6/30-7/3).  The location is also family friendly.  Most of the members are older than us and their kids are grown so this issue has mostly been ignored.  Rest assured, I will make sure that going forward the meets will be more family friendly and with better timing for us where school ends later.

I beg to differ, the dates were changed this year due to a scheduling problem with the hotel, the "last full" week of June has seemed to work for almost 30 years, now it is too early?

From my experience at the meets, I have attended 10 of the last 15, they have all been held at a family friendly location! That was how Ray started them out, to make it a family friendly location so everyone would enjoy it, not just have a car show but plan activities for the family. As far as I know that has been the goal of the association from the start?!?

99Rivman wrote:

Riv Fan wrote:

Since joining the board, I have brought up these concerns and now this year's meet is at the end of June, (6/30-7/3).  The location is also family friendly.  Most of the members are older than us and their kids are grown so this issue has mostly been ignored.  Rest assured, I will make sure that going forward the meets will be more family friendly and with better timing for us where school ends later.

I beg to differ, the dates were changed this year due to a scheduling problem with the hotel, the "last full" week of June has seemed to work for almost 30 years, now it is too early?

From my experience at the meets, I have attended 10 of the last 15, they have all been held at a family friendly location! That was how Ray started them out, to make it a family friendly location so everyone would enjoy it, not just have a car show but plan activities for the family. As far as I know that has been the goal of the association from the start?!?

Randall it has been too early. There are many districts in the country that are still in school, including mine. There is no reason why it has to be only then. As far as this years meet went, we had two choices, change the venue or the dates. Ray's suggestion was to keep it at the same location and go a week later. I had been discussing the date issue with him before the conflict ever came up. So we are giving the later date a try this year. I don't think it will be an issue as the Lexington meet was after all the schools were closed and we had the highest amount of attendence of small children at a meet.

Either the hotel or some nearby location should have something fun for children. Lexington had the hotel (with minimal activities for young children), Hershey had the theme parks nearby. Colorado Springs had tourist attractions but more for teens or adults, not small children. I was not at Monterey, Branson or Asheville and I'm not sure what those locations had for young children either. Regardless though, there should be scheduled activities for small children ages 12 and under.

If we are concerned about keeping the club viable and strong, we need to try to cater to all the demographics of the club, and encourage membership for those people who have young families.

Randall, the one year I could have attended due to dates working out favorably I didn't see anything nearby to keep the rest of my family entertained. Most of the events are in decent locations, I didn't mean to say they weren't. I typically had looked at the dates and determined I couldn't go, so didn't look into them any further.

I believe the year I could go due to dates the meet was North Carolina? Which is still a pretty long trip for me. I think it was at an estate, and the resulting pictures were gorgeous, but I didn't see anything else around there for us to do. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the planning messages in the Riview.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not in that position where you are supposed to please everybody. I know it can't be done! Many school systems do get out earlier than us, and in 13 more years I'll be able to attend those June events!

Just wanted to keep the thread alive here to see if anyone else had any comments or suggestions. Also, does anyone here have an idea of how many active members you have here on this forum?

ROA seems like a community for Riv owners with models older than 95.

Riv performance is mostly a place for Riv heads with gen 8 Rivs. You see some posts on gen 7s and earlier rarely around this part of the internets.

It's about as simple as that.

Everything you are trying to do for gen 8 Rivs has already been done by AA and the rest of the members here. "adding articles about the last gen Riv's and the many modifications that can be made to these great future classics"

It looks like you are trying to bridge the two communities but I dont see any reason to pay $30 a year for dues to be part of ROA when all my homies are right here.

Why not make an option to join ROA with no dues and no magazine subscription? You might see gen 8 members then. We're obviously not cheapskates, we're dumping money into modding, restoring, and generally pimping out    ~20 year old supercharged Buicks and beating the hell out of them. I just rather spend the $30 on a calendar to support this forum, or buy AA's candy-less box of sway bar links, or a tshirt that needs to be redesigned, etc etc. The Riv heads here are a cool bunch of dudes with hundreds of years of combined knowledge and membership is FREE. There are dudes here that dont even own Rivs and are still part of the crew.

My home is here at Riv Performance and a membership with ROA isnt even attractive enough to consider.   So maybe you should just get yourself a gen 8, Darrrrrrrelllll, and join the best spot for Rivs on the net!  

IMHO, I think you're being a little disrespectful.  Just to let you know, there were more gen8 Riviera's at the 2010 ROA meet in PA than any other gen Riv...19 gen8 Riv's.

Ship wrote:

IMHO, I think you're being a little disrespectful.  Just to let you know, there were more gen8 Riviera's at the 2012 ROA meet in PA than any other gen Riv...19 gen8 Riv's.

Well thanks.


I never wouldve guessed gen 8 if you asked me what the most common gen was at the 2012 meet. That's pretty shocking.

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers. I just tried to explain why a Riv head like myself is not a memeber of the ROA.


Here's a question: how many gen 8 owners are active ROA members?

Chuck, take a sedative and calm yourself

I agree with you in part, but I disagree on the "negativity" part of it. Yes, most of us consistently active members here are a bunch of modding crazies, and that's all we think about. I see a perfect Riv with low miles, and all I think about is how badass I'd make the car. There's absolutely no way I'd have a garage/show queen. I love this car too much to let it sit and shine. Mine may leave clean, but it's coming home with rubber and road dirt all over the fenders Other people don't see it that way though. There are people of all kinds man. I welcome any Riviera here. I think a few (or all) ROA members would benefit from our site in one way or another, and vice versa. If a board member comes here and posts, he has recognized US idiots. We all know about the ROA, and have chosen whether to, or not to participate. I honestly don't see a reason to go and discuss a Riviera anywhere else but here, though. This is my (our) forum, and this is where I stay. If any ROA member wishes to join here for technical info, parts info, modding info, he/she will be treated like any other member, and I think that we'll all do our best to help them out (as we always do).

My $.02

Abaddon wrote:

Chuck, take a sedative and calm yourself

I agree with you in part, but I disagree on the "negativity" part of it. Yes, most of us consistently active members here are a bunch of modding crazies, and that's all we think about. I see a perfect Riv with low miles, and all I think about is how badass I'd make the car. There's absolutely no way I'd have a garage/show queen. I love this car too much to let it sit and shine. Mine may leave clean, but it's coming home with rubber and road dirt all over the fenders    Other people don't see it that way though. There are people of all kinds man. I welcome any Riviera here. I think a few (or all) ROA members would benefit from our site in one way or another, and vice versa. If a board member comes here and posts, he has recognized US idiots. We all know about the ROA, and have chosen whether to, or not to participate. I honestly don't see a reason to go and discuss a Riviera anywhere else but here, though. This is my (our) forum, and this is where I stay. If any ROA member wishes to join here for technical info, parts info, modding info, he/she will be treated like any other member, and I think that we'll all do our best to help them out (as we always do).

My $.02

Yup.

Thanks, Darrell, for posting this. I think all the replies made here are valid. Charlie's point of view is certainly understandable.

Here's my take: there is some real value in joining the ROA, especially if you're looking for social interaction with other Buick/Riv enthusiasts. If you're a Buick nut or a Riviera history buff, $30 is a drop in the bucket for what you get. Being part of an organized group with national meets is a great privilege.

RivPerformance was never meant to be a social experience much beyond the chat forums and some local gatherings organized by volunteer members. Over the years we've made acquaintances with folks like Ray Knott, Randall and Darrell at ROA, Larry and Ken from Buick Performance Group. Because of them and a few others, we can enjoy some of the club benefits that would normally not be within our budget. All of you are always welcome here!

RivPerformance is this: an organized compilation of tech data for Rivieras, primarily 8th gen; a resource for maintaining and modifying, and nothing more, officially. We are not a club, therefore operating on a very lean budget with no dues. We don't hold outings or publish magazines because these would require time and money. However, group activities are always welcome and encouraged - if members take on the responsibility and funding.

If you're a Riviera nut, and you want to join a club, an ROA or BPG membership makes perfect sense. If you just want access to years of compiled resources for 8th Riviera repair & modification, you can join our membership at no cost. There are many folks out there who are only looking for the tech info, and that's perfectly all right.

Best,
AA

Charlie,
To respond to your question of how many active ROA members own gen8 Riv's:
About 9%...over 250 of 2800 members...pretty good representation of the gen8 Riv's in my book.

Well said AA. Even though I couldn't attend the national events, I learned a lot about the Buick and Riviera communities through the ROA, and they did have local meets periodically. I'm pretty sure I met Ship at one. The BCA is an excellent group as well, but covers a whole different scale of car. I may join them again when my kids are a little older and I can participate with my '73.

Greetings, I sold my '95 some time ago and it's been a while since I posted.   I thought that I'd add some to what Ship said about the number of 8th generation cars that attend the ROA's annual events.
 
     I don't have the exact mileage but I do know that in 2012, the long distance award went to a family from Nova Scotia who drove their '99 from their home to Monterey, CA and back, round trip just about 7,500 miles.
 
     I looked at the pictures from the 2014 meet in Colorado Springs and there were 11 8th generation Rivieras there; that's well over 10% of the total cars in attendance.  These numbers don't count the six 7th generation cars that were there as well.  One of the 8th generation cars was the Class Winner in the modified category.  All ballots in ROA meet judging are done as "peer judged" events.  It's a popularity contest for the best liked car in each class.

     In the most recent Riview , the ROA's magazine, one third of the Q&A pulled for publication came from this Riviera Performance forum.

     From what I can tell, the 8th generation cars are getting a lot of attention from the ROA.  The only difference that I see between the ROA and this group is the intention of the car's owner.  The ROA is, as stated in their mission statemet "The ROA.....dedicated to the preservation, restoration, promotion, and enjoyment of the Rivieras built by Buick."  Most ROA members are restorers where as, from my observations, most of the members of this forum are performance enthusiasts (as indicated in your name) and are more interested in modifications to gain performance.  This I don't know, but I'm going to take a wag (wild assed guess) that the Rivieras owned by ROA members are collectibles that are rarely driven where as, still a wag, the Rivieras owned by members of this forum are for the most part daily drivers.  

As Trustees, Darrel, Randall, and myself are privy to what's being planned for the ROA meets for a couple of years in advance. The 2015 meet will be just outside of Chicago - don't tell me your family can't find something to do in Chicago. We know that the 2016 will be in a great family location, and the 2017 meet is being planned around how much of a "WOW" factor the area will have for families. Suggestions are being considered at this time.
 
Ed

Rivnut wrote:

The ROA is, as stated in their mission statemet "The ROA.....dedicated to the preservation, restoration, promotion, and enjoyment of the Rivieras built by Buick."  Most ROA members are restorers where as, from my observations, most of the members of this forum are performance enthusiasts (as indicated in your name) and are more interested in modifications to gain performance.  This I don't know, but I'm going to take a wag (wild assed guess) that the Rivieras owned by ROA members are collectibles that are rarely driven where as, still a wag, the Rivieras owned by members of this forum are for the most part daily drivers.

I think that is an accurate statement. To clarify, "gaining performance" by our definition means more than making it a faster car. We acknowledge that a late '90s Riviera (or most any '90s car for that matter), while impressive for its day, doesn't really compete with cars being sold in today's market - in terms of acceleration, handling, fuel economy, and technology. A lot of the modifications we do are ways of updating the car to be nearer to today's standards. An example might be a set of aftermarket 18" wheels with lower profile rubber, or the addition of a back-up camera.

We also acknowledge these cars were not without faults. A lot of what we do here is learning from each other what's wrong, and sharing ways to deal with the car's shortfalls. An example of this would be something like the plastic intake manifold gasket, or the dreaded steering column slop issue.

Whatever camp you're in, we all love these cars. We welcome those who want to keep their cars original, or those who want to gear up for the drag strip, road course, or high-speed mile.

AA wrote:

I think that is an accurate statement. To clarify, "gaining performance" by our definition means more than making it a faster car.

I agree wholeheartedly.  I've install an electric fuel pump and electronic ignition on my '64.  Presently I'm working on converting the master cylinder to a dual reservoir system as a safety factor.  I have the parts to convert the car to four wheel disk brakes and install a late model o/d transmission. I'm doing this all in the name of driveability;  nothing to make it any faster; just safer and more reliable.  

In the Riview, there is a list of Tech Advisors for each generation Riviera.  You should not rule out tech advice from the ROA.  Of the Tech Advisors for the 8th generation car, one is a certified GM service writer, one is a retired GM engineer who was in engine development in Flint, and the other owns his own garage.  They have answers to questions most of us can't even think of.  

The ROA welcomes stock and modified cars.  In Colorado, there were enough modified cars that they had to be broken into two classes (based on year.)  

For the past four years, I've sat on the tech advisory board at the national meets.  The questions we get are mostly centered around keeping the older cars roadworthy and finding parts; used, NOS, and reproductions.  Rarely to we get any questions regarding "enhanced performance."  I'm sure that most of the contributors on this forum would be able to find something of value in some kind of association with the ROA as well.

I'm just here for the emoticons Oh yeah, and the only remaining calendar  Just kidding

Lov ROA and it's Riview, bought a very nice fender cover from the club shoppe, (of course had to modify it to accommodate gas struts and short depth fenders) , Joining BCA adds the monthly Bugle to read and enjoy.

I lurk in on AACA ROA forum and follow Rivnut and others on a regular basis and am amazed at their expertise and knowledge. They frequently refer individuals to this forum for Gen 8 questions.  

ROA in every Riview issue credits"Riviera Performance" as another forum and discussion group for readers/viewers to seek out and explore. Riview Q&A page (compiled by the late great Phil Cooley (RIP ) usually, if not always gleans something from RP to share with readers. I've enjoyed and continue to enjoy every aspect of Riviera ownership and am thankful for all the folks I've met and who have helped me maximize my Riviera ownership experience from all forum, associations, clubs and car show arenas. It's all good and it's great to be a part of this Riviera glue that has bonded (to varying degrees) all of us together!! RP is still home, but I'm glad there's other venues out there. Nuff said, we now return to our ongoing emoticons

PS: If you haven't already done so,,, Order your (only Riviera dedicated) Calendar NOW.   Hey Darell, Hey Ed, throw RP's calendar link in the next few Riview "classifieds"  for ROA members to consider purchasing, since ROA isn't publishing/selling their own any more.

Sounds like I'm wayyyy too crude and rough around the edges to be on the ROA website. Right now, I'm putting a Steering Gear in an Acadia, listening to Five Finger Death Punch Most of the people here can deal with me I could probably help a ton when it comes to technical concerns (I'm a tech at a Buick-GMC dealer), but I doubt people of the ROA could handle my bluntness. I might go and check out the site....

Not that anything I just babbled matters. I'm just sayin. I love caffeine....

Ignore me

I keep meaning to re-join ROA. I was a member in the 90s when I had the 63, but let the membership lapse.

I attended the national meet in Lake Tahoe and had a great time, and would go again if given the chance.

I agree about most of the points made, and I think as time passes and the 8th generation cars become (have become) considered classics we'll see the communities come together more and more.

Al

My wife and I were on vacation in Florida and another ROA member spotted my Tag. He waited by my car just to meet us (we were inside having a lengthy breakfast). Nice guy.

That was worth $30 alone. I need to re-up at ROA as well.

This site (Riv Performance) is not replaceable. Great advice from people who don't feel the need to be condescending like a lot of sites with a veteran membership. (no site in particular, I'm sure everyone knows what I mean)

Old thread ....

Who says RivPerformance doesn't publish?? Looking at some of these fabulous write-ups I'd say you're producing some extremely informative publishing.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed so folks like me can learn.