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 ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield

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Jack the R
LARRY70GS
Cliff96
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Cliff96
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyWed Nov 18, 2020 2:58 pm

I am sure these two things have been discussed on here already but have patience with a newbie joy
From anyone who has tried these two things, do they help?
Thanks
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LARRY70GS
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyThu Nov 19, 2020 8:47 am

Steve Ruconic (71stagegs) has the front log on his 98.  The stock front exhaust manifold is incredibly restrictive.  He showed me pictures when he did it.  There is no question that it helps.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/u425

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyThu Nov 19, 2020 9:19 am

I haven't tried one, but I'm considering it. People say the rear manifold is almost as good as a header, so most of the improvement is to be found in the front. The cost-to-benefit ratio for the plog is compelling. Considering headers are nearly a grand before installation, and their stage two intercooler is $1100, maybe it is better to go with the plog and intercooler? I don't know, but I'm guessing the plog is the better option unless you are going for the absolute maximum amount of horsepower you can get out of a 3800. Which will cost several thousand dollars, and if you need that much performance maybe you should be thinking about LS-swapping another platform.

Plog is only $150 - I think that's the way I'm going.
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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyThu Nov 19, 2020 1:25 pm

I'm not looking for a lot of mods I'm just interested in things that help the stock engine run cooler and perform at its best. Thanks for the feedback
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyThu Nov 19, 2020 9:53 pm

Cliff96 wrote:
I'm not looking for a lot of mods I'm just interested in things that help the stock engine run cooler and perform at its best. Thanks for the feedback

You'll even see performance improve with just porting the stock exhaust manifold (I did).

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Z-type
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 8:37 pm

When I modified my '97 Riv and my dad's '04 GS we did PLOGS on both and same as the other guys, I have no doubt they opened up quite a bit of breathing space. We did a lot of other mods to both cars so it's hard to say the specific improvement but it could not have been a bad thing.

Do you mean the head shield for the throttle body? These M90's and M62's make so much heat I can't see that helping much, but they look neat razz
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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 9:07 pm

Yes the throttle body heat shield but now I see the ceramic coated crossover pipe. I imagine that would really make a difference
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9ty7rivi
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyWed Aug 11, 2021 9:29 am

I can tell you from experience that is no doubt the best bang for buck when it comes to a cheap mod that not only lets you "feel" the results, but also experience it in terms of cooler temps and happier engine. I right away noticed an increase in mid range power bands I mean VERY noticeable! ZZP did their homework extensively when it comes to the powerlog IMO. I would say hands down this upgrade is worth it in terms of an investment for you Riv.
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9ty7rivi
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyWed Aug 11, 2021 9:36 am

I even reused my rusty burnt crossover pipe bolts! Haha.

ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  20210813ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  20210814
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Spacecowboy067
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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 am

Front PLOGS would help mitigate KR right? I noticed this thing knocks even with 91 octane... 93 is fine but can't find it anywhere. Been trying to free up restrictions via intake and exhaust to drop KR recently and would be dope if the log helps
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Jack the R
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Jack the R


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PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 2:14 pm

Short answer yes, long answer - if your knock is caused by low octane gas, you better bump the octane of your gas up. You can buy octane booster, but it is not cheap, and it will eventually clog up your catalytic converter. Perhaps you can have the cat deleted where you're at and run an emulator in place of the cat 02 sensor. You still be stuck buying booster, practically doubling the price of gas, but you don't want to chip your pistons and have to replace the engine.
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albertj
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 20, 2021 5:27 pm

Spacecowboy067 wrote:
Front PLOGS would help mitigate KR right? I noticed this thing knocks even with 91 octane... 93 is fine but can't find it anywhere. Been trying to free up restrictions via intake and exhaust to drop KR recently and would be dope if the log helps

I'd have to kow all your mods in order to comment. There may be something you can do about the knock to get 91 to work OK. Like maybe your MAF is off spec.
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Spacecowboy067
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 27, 2021 3:24 am

I've got a res delete and magnaflow exhaust, stock intake but k&n drop in filter, colder plugs, ZZP coils and wires, and a 180 stat so far. I don't think any of that drops much KR until I get it tuned and get a new downpipe. No idea how the MAF is performing other than it's not throwing codes. I might be able to read it in the torque app but I'm not too knowledgeable about the app yet
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albertj
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 27, 2021 11:21 am

Spacecowboy067 wrote:
I've got a res delete and magnaflow exhaust, stock intake but k&n drop in filter, colder plugs, ZZP coils and wires, and a 180 stat so far. I don't think any of that drops much KR until I get it tuned and get a new downpipe. No idea how the MAF is performing other than it's not throwing codes. I might be able to read it in the torque app but I'm not too knowledgeable about the app yet

My thoughts (not in any order):

1) Ditch the K&N drop in, some owners put too much oil on them and they get oil on the MAF, which fools it if it does not kill it altogether. Put on a decent regular air filter and get a can of MAF cleaner and clean your MAF. You may need a security bit TORX driver to get the MAF out. You may have already killed the MAF. A new Hitachi is a good bet. However, I am currently running a MAF that I pulled from a '96 camaro in a junkyard. It had obviously been opened and re-sealed, not sure what was done to it, but it works great. My original MAF finally went off-spec from old age after ~20 years of use. It never threw a code. My KR was kinda high and I could not figure out another reason so I removed and cleaned the throttle body and replaced my original MAF with the junkyard unit. I think in the interim I cleaned it 3-4 times.

2) You'll require a tune to see any improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180 Tstat.

3) if you have not ported your exhaust manifold, it would not be a waste of time for you to do so.
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Spacecowboy067
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 27, 2021 11:40 am

albertj wrote:
Spacecowboy067 wrote:
I've got a res delete and magnaflow exhaust, stock intake but k&n drop in filter, colder plugs, ZZP coils and wires, and a 180 stat so far. I don't think any of that drops much KR until I get it tuned and get a new downpipe. No idea how the MAF is performing other than it's not throwing codes. I might be able to read it in the torque app but I'm not too knowledgeable about the app yet

My thoughts (not in any order):

1) Ditch the K&N drop in, some owners put too much oil on them and they get oil on the MAF, which fools it if it does not kill it altogether.  Put on a decent regular air filter and get a can of MAF cleaner and clean your MAF.  You may need a security bit TORX driver to get the MAF out.  You may have already killed the MAF.  A new Hitachi is a good bet. However, I am currently running a MAF that I pulled from a '96 camaro in a junkyard.  It had obviously been opened and re-sealed, not sure what was done to it, but it works great.  My original MAF finally went off-spec from old age after ~20 years of use. It never threw a code.  My KR was kinda high and I could not figure out another reason so I removed and cleaned the throttle body and replaced my original MAF with the junkyard unit.   I think in the interim I cleaned it 3-4 times.

2) You'll require a tune to see any improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180 Tstat.  

3) if you have not ported your exhaust manifold, it would not be a waste of time for you to do so.

A real CAI will come eventually and I definitely need a tune, but I've been busy fixing the thing so it drives straight and reliably all summer. Lots of issues. Just last night I found a rubber fuel hose spraying gas 🙄

Porting the manifold might be last on my priority list but maybe someday. I'll probably bolt up ZZP front logs and leave the rear as is until I care enough to port em
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Jack the R
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Jack the R


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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyMon Sep 27, 2021 1:56 pm

IIRC you shouldn't switch to colder plugs until you go to a smaller supercharger pulley.
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albertj
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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyTue Sep 28, 2021 1:35 pm

Spacecowboy067 wrote:
albertj wrote:
Spacecowboy067 wrote:
I've got a res delete and magnaflow exhaust, stock intake but k&n drop in filter, colder plugs, ZZP coils and wires, and a 180 stat so far. I don't think any of that drops much KR until I get it tuned and get a new downpipe. No idea how the MAF is performing other than it's not throwing codes. I might be able to read it in the torque app but I'm not too knowledgeable about the app yet

My thoughts (not in any order):

1) Ditch the K&N drop in, some owners put too much oil on them and they get oil on the MAF, which fools it if it does not kill it altogether.  Put on a decent regular air filter and get a can of MAF cleaner and clean your MAF.  You may need a security bit TORX driver to get the MAF out.  You may have already killed the MAF.  A new Hitachi is a good bet. However, I am currently running a MAF that I pulled from a '96 camaro in a junkyard.  It had obviously been opened and re-sealed, not sure what was done to it, but it works great.  My original MAF finally went off-spec from old age after ~20 years of use. It never threw a code.  My KR was kinda high and I could not figure out another reason so I removed and cleaned the throttle body and replaced my original MAF with the junkyard unit.   I think in the interim I cleaned it 3-4 times.

2) You'll require a tune to see any improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180 Tstat.  

3) if you have not ported your exhaust manifold, it would not be a waste of time for you to do so.

A real CAI will come eventually and I definitely need a tune, but I've been busy fixing the thing so it drives straight and reliably all summer. Lots of issues. Just last night I found a rubber fuel hose spraying gas 🙄

Porting the manifold might be last on my priority list but maybe someday. I'll probably bolt up ZZP front logs and leave the rear as is until I care enough to port em

That's the point. To drive 'straight and reliably' you'll require a tune to see improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180F t-stat. So, it just depends on what's important to you. If the mods are important then you have drivability issues until you can do the tune at lest. If drivability is more important to you then I think you will find that those mods are no more difficult to take out (until you can tune) than they were to put in. After you back out those mods, if you would like to see a performance gain then consider removing, porting and then reinstalling your manifold, or go to to a salvage yard (like I did), get an OE manifold off another BOP car and then port and install that. To port the manifold all you need is a Dremel moto tool with a grinding 'bullet' tip, a (preferably metal) manifold gasket, and a Sharpie. Using the gasket as a pattern When I heard about that I rolled my eyes. Then my manifold cracked from old age. I had to replace it anyway... so I ported it before the install.

Holy Smoke!

What I did not know at the time is that porting the front exhaust manifold is probably the biggest single thing you can do to gain HP on a stock 3800 or 3800SC motor. The trick is that doing the porting is not cost effective for GM but it *is* cost effective for you (especially compared to other mods), it's not difficult at all, and you'll notice up to 10 HP difference depending on how well you do it. Also see https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t9141-engine-head-port-and-polish.

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Spacecowboy067
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Spacecowboy067


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ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  Empty
PostSubject: Re: ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield    ZZP front exhaust log and crossover heat shield  EmptyTue Sep 28, 2021 1:41 pm

albertj wrote:
Spacecowboy067 wrote:
albertj wrote:
Spacecowboy067 wrote:
I've got a res delete and magnaflow exhaust, stock intake but k&n drop in filter, colder plugs, ZZP coils and wires, and a 180 stat so far. I don't think any of that drops much KR until I get it tuned and get a new downpipe. No idea how the MAF is performing other than it's not throwing codes. I might be able to read it in the torque app but I'm not too knowledgeable about the app yet

My thoughts (not in any order):

1) Ditch the K&N drop in, some owners put too much oil on them and they get oil on the MAF, which fools it if it does not kill it altogether.  Put on a decent regular air filter and get a can of MAF cleaner and clean your MAF.  You may need a security bit TORX driver to get the MAF out.  You may have already killed the MAF.  A new Hitachi is a good bet. However, I am currently running a MAF that I pulled from a '96 camaro in a junkyard.  It had obviously been opened and re-sealed, not sure what was done to it, but it works great.  My original MAF finally went off-spec from old age after ~20 years of use. It never threw a code.  My KR was kinda high and I could not figure out another reason so I removed and cleaned the throttle body and replaced my original MAF with the junkyard unit.   I think in the interim I cleaned it 3-4 times.

2) You'll require a tune to see any improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180 Tstat.  

3) if you have not ported your exhaust manifold, it would not be a waste of time for you to do so.

A real CAI will come eventually and I definitely need a tune, but I've been busy fixing the thing so it drives straight and reliably all summer. Lots of issues. Just last night I found a rubber fuel hose spraying gas 🙄

Porting the manifold might be last on my priority list but maybe someday. I'll probably bolt up ZZP front logs and leave the rear as is until I care enough to port em

That's the point.  To drive 'straight and reliably' you'll require a tune to see improvement with the colder plugs, hot coils and 180F t-stat.  So, it just depends on what's important to you.  If the mods are important then you have drivability issues until you can do the tune at lest.  If drivability is more important to you then I think you will find that those mods are no more difficult to take out (until you can tune) than they were to put in.  After you back out those mods, if you would like to see a performance gain then consider removing, porting and then reinstalling your manifold, or go to to a salvage yard (like I did), get an OE manifold off another BOP car and then port and install that.  To port the manifold all you need is a Dremel moto tool with a grinding 'bullet' tip, a (preferably metal) manifold gasket, and a Sharpie.  Using the gasket as a pattern    When I heard about that I rolled my eyes.  Then my manifold cracked from old age.  I had to replace it anyway... so I ported it before the install.

Holy Smoke!

What I did not know at the time is that porting the front exhaust manifold is probably the biggest single thing you can do to gain HP on a stock 3800 or 3800SC motor.  The trick is that doing the porting is not cost effective for GM but it *is* cost effective for you (especially compared to other mods), it's not difficult at all, and you'll notice up to 10 HP difference depending on how well you do it.  Also see https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t9141-engine-head-port-and-polish.


Well by reliable and straight I meant suspension wise. Been fixing all of that shit first cuz this thing was giving me the death wobble over 50mph but finally got most pieces fixed and replaced, so engine and tuning comes next
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