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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptySun Mar 14, 2021 2:39 pm

My new Gabriel quick struts have issues after only a few thousand miles, the mounts are binding. Rock Auto will swap out the part for now since they are under warranty but it's $80ea labor to r&r it/them. I don't have a place or the inclination to do it myself. Both mounts are moving or making noise. The driver side I can live with for now but the passenger side is crackling and banging. This is the second or third set of strut bearings in the two years I have the car. The last round was Gabriel as well which are probably made overseas like garbage.  

After searching the thread below I'm thinking I should pay the extra labor and have my shop order a two piece style mount from his warehouse so he can warranty the part and labor this hopefully final round.

Should I;
A: Swap in a new warrantied quick strut and hope for the best?

B: Buy the GM mount & bearing myself, pay the extra labor and think I got it?

C: Provide my mechanic with the part numbers GM & new style aftermarket and let him install it/them and stand by them. I doubt he will have access to GM, if not what brand or numbers do you suggest?

Thank you in advance.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t11630-proper-front-strut-bearing-installation?highlight=Strut+mount
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptySun Mar 14, 2021 5:51 pm

I would keep the struts and have a set of GM or Monroe mounts installed on your quickstruts.

I am curious as to why your mounts are noisy.

You ever have any issues with the control arms?
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptySun Mar 14, 2021 6:05 pm

Control arms are new as well Moog premium US units. My guy thought it was the a arm and showed me play in a bushing so that was warranty swapped last week plus the labor again. He was shocked when he opened the hood and saw the mounts moving. The struts are fine but I think the mounts a garbage. I replaced the passenger mount only once before with a Gabriel and it moved. I guess I will need to buy a GM mount or eventually mounts, pay to have the new struts blown apart and re-installed just like you said. Note to self, from now on anything labor intensive I am buying thru the mechanic so he can stand by it. Even if it is an off brand.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptySun Mar 14, 2021 11:44 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
Control arms are new as well Moog premium US units. My guy thought it was the a arm and showed me play in a bushing so that was  warranty swapped last week plus the labor again. He was shocked when he opened the hood and saw the mounts moving. The struts are fine but I think the mounts a garbage. I replaced the passenger mount only once before with a Gabriel and it moved. I guess I will need to buy a GM mount or eventually mounts, pay to have the new struts blown apart and re-installed just like you said. Note to self, from now on anything labor intensive I am buying thru the mechanic so he can stand by it. Even if it is an off brand.

I'm really baffled. My Gabriels are great, no issues with mounts etc. That said, the earlier times I'd replaced struts I would not buy anyone's ready mounts. I also used only OEM or Monroe mounts.

Something must be really amiss to get bushing play in a new Moog arm.

I have had issues in getting parts locally where the part I was sold was used. There's ways to defend against that. The most blatant that I can remember was an EGR valve. Ended up that what was in the box had apparently been cleaned - if you know how to work the valve you can make it open and look inside. The use went obviously beyond testing. It's been an ongoing local problem around here, people buying new parts, putting their used part in the box and returning it for cash or store credit. Does not work for things like shocks necessarily - it's too obvious - but things that can be cleaned up (throttle position sensors, certain switches, etc.) and are inconvenient to check, it's a real headache. Hope that's not happening to you.

As for the mounts, the rubber bush in the center is supposed to move a little. Just a little though. Like visibly but millimeters.

One time the local GM dealer installed new mounts for me and the tech screwed up - tech had not correctly located the upper spring seat (that plastic crown looking thing) and the new struts literally blew through the mounts and hit the hood. Blew out while I was traveling. I had them repaired at a Sears Auto Center in the Pittsburgh area. That was neat, seriously. They got the parts from a Pep Boys across the highway from the auto center and actually called Moog to verify proper installation. They had a pneumatic gadget that compressed the spring, it took them ~15-20 minutes maybe to put car on lift & remove strut while service manager was on phone with Moog to verify install (there was something in the printed instructions that didn't make sense), then they swapped mount, reinstalled unit & dropped car. Another 15 min or so for the road test - and that was it. When I got back on home turf, I went to GM dealer for refund. The GM dealer made good on the $$$ after a brief call to the Sears garage to verify.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 9:01 am

I have had my Gabriels for over 5 years, not a peep from them. It is possible they were assembled wrong.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t11630-proper-front-strut-bearing-installation?highlight=Gabriel+ready+strut

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 9:57 am

albertj wrote:
carguy8888 wrote:
Control arms are new as well Moog premium US units. My guy thought it was the a arm and showed me play in a bushing so that was  warranty swapped last week plus the labor again. He was shocked when he opened the hood and saw the mounts moving. The struts are fine but I think the mounts a garbage. I replaced the passenger mount only once before with a Gabriel and it moved. I guess I will need to buy a GM mount or eventually mounts, pay to have the new struts blown apart and re-installed just like you said. Note to self, from now on anything labor intensive I am buying thru the mechanic so he can stand by it. Even if it is an off brand.

I'm really baffled. My Gabriels are great, no issues with mounts etc.  That said, the earlier times I'd replaced struts I would not buy anyone's ready mounts.  I also used only OEM or Monroe mounts.  

Something must be really amiss to get bushing play in a new Moog arm.

I have had issues in getting parts locally where the part I was sold was used.  There's ways to defend against that.  The most blatant that I can remember was an EGR valve.  Ended up that what was in the box had apparently been cleaned - if you know how to work the valve you can make it open and look inside.  The use went obviously beyond testing.  It's been an ongoing local problem around here, people buying new parts, putting their used part in the box and returning it for cash or store credit.  Does not work for things like shocks necessarily - it's too obvious -  but things that can be cleaned up (throttle position sensors, certain switches, etc.) and are inconvenient to check, it's a real headache.  Hope that's not happening to you.

As for the mounts, the rubber bush in the center is supposed to move a little.  Just a little though.  Like visibly but millimeters.

One time the local GM dealer installed new mounts for me and the tech screwed up - tech had not correctly located the upper spring seat (that plastic crown looking thing) and the new struts literally blew through the mounts and hit the hood.  Blew out while I was traveling.  I had them repaired at a Sears Auto Center in the Pittsburgh area.  That was neat, seriously. They got the parts from a Pep Boys across the highway from the auto center and actually called Moog to verify proper installation.  They had a pneumatic gadget that compressed the spring, it took them ~15-20 minutes maybe to put car on lift & remove strut while service manager was on phone with Moog to verify install (there was something in the printed instructions that didn't make sense), then they  swapped mount, reinstalled unit & dropped car.  Another 15 min or so for the road test - and that was it. When I got back on home turf, I went to GM dealer for refund.  The GM dealer made good on the $$$ after a brief call to the Sears garage to verify.  
That ordeal sounds like it was a load of fun. Good to know about the movement.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 10:19 am

LARRY70GS wrote:
I have had my Gabriels for over 5 years, not a peep from them.  It is possible they were assembled wrong.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t11630-proper-front-strut-bearing-installation?highlight=Gabriel+ready+strut
That thread is how I found out about the GM and updated two piece mounts via Abaddon. The right height and the struts are great it's just the mounts I believe. If I read it correctly you can put the mount on wrong. Since the mounts were already assembled with the strut can you put the strut in incorrectly? Before I continue to throw money this, would you let me take you for a ride or drive the car yourself and you'll see?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 10:32 am

Sure, but I don't know how that will help. If you are sure it is making noise, and you know where it is coming from, it is what it is. I find it hard to believe that both are assembled wrong. Have you contacted Gabriel?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 11:03 am

That's on my list today but I expect nothing. I did write to RockAuto but received a typical corporate BS reply. I'm going to start with the passenger side and get a part number to an aftermarket new design two-piece unit. I think Abanddon posted it. I will order it through my mechanic and let him install it and warranty it. I would buy a GM one but if there's a problem I'm back to square one.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 12:47 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
That's on my list today but I expect nothing. I did write to RockAuto but received a typical corporate BS reply. I'm going to start with the passenger side and get a part number to an aftermarket new design two-piece unit. I think Abanddon posted it. I will order it through my mechanic and let him install it and warranty it. I would buy a GM one but if there's a problem I'm back to square one.

...you could look up into your fender wells and confirm that the top bearings are thick-side-in.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Mar 15, 2021 3:21 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
albertj wrote:
carguy8888 wrote:
Control arms are new as well Moog premium US units. My guy thought it was the a arm and showed me play in a bushing so that was  warranty swapped last week plus the labor again. He was shocked when he opened the hood and saw the mounts moving. The struts are fine but I think the mounts a garbage. I replaced the passenger mount only once before with a Gabriel and it moved. I guess I will need to buy a GM mount or eventually mounts, pay to have the new struts blown apart and re-installed just like you said. Note to self, from now on anything labor intensive I am buying thru the mechanic so he can stand by it. Even if it is an off brand.

I'm really baffled. My Gabriels are great, no issues with mounts etc.  That said, the earlier times I'd replaced struts I would not buy anyone's ready mounts.  I also used only OEM or Monroe mounts.  

Something must be really amiss to get bushing play in a new Moog arm.

I have had issues in getting parts locally where the part I was sold was used.  There's ways to defend against that.  The most blatant that I can remember was an EGR valve.  Ended up that what was in the box had apparently been cleaned - if you know how to work the valve you can make it open and look inside.  The use went obviously beyond testing.  It's been an ongoing local problem around here, people buying new parts, putting their used part in the box and returning it for cash or store credit.  Does not work for things like shocks necessarily - it's too obvious -  but things that can be cleaned up (throttle position sensors, certain switches, etc.) and are inconvenient to check, it's a real headache.  Hope that's not happening to you.

As for the mounts, the rubber bush in the center is supposed to move a little.  Just a little though.  Like visibly but millimeters.

One time the local GM dealer installed new mounts for me and the tech screwed up - tech had not correctly located the upper spring seat (that plastic crown looking thing) and the new struts literally blew through the mounts and hit the hood.  Blew out while I was traveling.  I had them repaired at a Sears Auto Center in the Pittsburgh area.  That was neat, seriously. They got the parts from a Pep Boys across the highway from the auto center and actually called Moog to verify proper installation.  They had a pneumatic gadget that compressed the spring, it took them ~15-20 minutes maybe to put car on lift & remove strut while service manager was on phone with Moog to verify install (there was something in the printed instructions that didn't make sense), then they  swapped mount, reinstalled unit & dropped car.  Another 15 min or so for the road test - and that was it. When I got back on home turf, I went to GM dealer for refund.  The GM dealer made good on the $$$ after a brief call to the Sears garage to verify.  
That ordeal sounds like it was a load of fun. Good to know about the movement.

It was not fun blowing out the GM mounts.

It was kinda fun (more of a relief) getting the dealer to pay for it. I've been a customer a long time, and it was a very short and very polite conversation. I don't think I nor the service manager (he's still there) ever figured out how or why the tech installed the mounts wrong to begin with.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyTue Mar 16, 2021 10:13 pm

It's nice that you got the dealer to step up. After speaking with Gabriel's investigation team they are willing to give me a separate mount or another unit from a different lot. I don't think I want either of those options because to me I'm redoing the same thing looking for a different result. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the GM updated mount and have my guy install it on the unit I have now. I'll video him removing the current mount and see what it looks like. Anything else I think I'm going to end up with the same problem in time.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyWed Mar 17, 2021 6:59 pm

Hi Folks,
I'm moving ahead with my '98 Riv restoration and have recently been exploring suspension options through Riv Performance.
This thread has been extended in the last few days, so without reading all about Gabriels again, can you tell me if I'm on the right track with the parts I'm about to have installed?
These are all Monroe:
> Struts #7165
> Strut Mounts #902972
> Strut Bellow #63632
> Rear Shocks # MA822
> Air Hose kit #AK29
Opinions appreciated. May never do this again smile
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyWed Mar 17, 2021 7:01 pm

BTW, I'm re-using the stock springs, being very wary of height problems noted on RP.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyWed Mar 17, 2021 7:24 pm

Albert,
Tell me, please, is removing the stock mounts a big issue?
My immediate neighbor is helping me out with this work, so I'd like to give him a heads up about the job, if you have any experience insight in how to make it easier?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyFri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 am

denim wrote:
Albert,
Tell me, please, is removing the stock mounts a big issue?
My immediate neighbor is helping me out with this work, so I'd like to give him a heads up about the job, if you have any experience insight in how to make it easier?

Take pictures of the assembled struts so that when you build the replacements you orient the mount parts correctly. The factory service manual has useful instructions and insights.

Otherwise, nothing unusual, exciting or fattening involved. Spring compressor and normal caution get you through.

Oh one other thing. If your air lines are factory and good you will not need the air hose kit. The MA822s connect (a quick-connect nipple) right to the factory air lines, which were nylon.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyFri Mar 19, 2021 7:02 am

Albert,
I have manuals and always use them.
My '98 Riv is a Florida car, so it's possible the stock lines are still good! Thanks for the tip... I assumed the worst and bought the kit in case.
And I will take photos to help wrap my head around the strut assembly. Wish I could do the same with that Tesseract, though smile
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 2:55 pm

Just a quick follow up on the addition of new Monroe MA822s on the rear of my Florida-reared Riv.
Installed, no problem, hooked right up to the air system, works perfectly at 104K mile.
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 3:02 pm

I just went to check them out. I don't see the s.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 4:56 pm

carguy8888 wrote:
I just went to check them out. I don't see the s.

He meant the plural of MA822. smile

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 7:02 pm

Yeah...
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 8:19 pm

Got it, I'm home with a cold today so maybe my brain was not functioning correctly LOL.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 8:57 pm

Sorry to hear.
I haven't had cold symptoms of any kind since Covid arrived. Probably from all that hand washing/ mask wearing.
Shake it off smile
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carguy8888
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PostSubject: Re: Strut mount help   Strut mount help EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 9:12 pm

Thankfully just a cold, no covid.
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