What Next? What would you do?

Got my suspension and brake system dialed in (see other posts).

Have the SLP headers and 3" into dual 2.5" thru Magnaflow. Boxed in FWI, 180* thermo, 104 plugs, new wires. 3.4 MPS and 3.5 tensioner coming in first of the week and local shop ready to tune with HP Tuner.

WHAT NEXT????

Cam or rockers or both? Injectors? IC? NO2? Did I see someone putting a Whipplecharger on a Riv? What benifits over the M90? "Be safe" items like coolers, hp oil systems, etc..?

I want the smallest pulley possible but don't want to go lower until other things are done first. Don't want to get into the engine other than cam. Plan on building another engine from ground up as soon as I get this one where I want.

NO TC! SC all the way.

Even if the shop is tuning, I'd get a scanner on PDA or laptop to use yourself.

No need for injectors, don't waste your money until you are running at least a 3.1" pulley.

IC is the ultimate "be safe" mod, and a great idea. I would do it if I had the money right now. ZZP has a proven design, Thrasher costs the most $$$, and W-Body is under a grand.

If you're going for all-out performance, a cam makes sense. If you're looking to keep fuel economy and stock idle/cruise manners, rockers are the way to go.

How much does a cam hurt fuel economy?

OK. Cam is next. Any suggestions on manufacturer and specifics on the best cam for performance? Need it to still be drivable on the street.

Next IC. Which IC is the best in performance?

I have the HP Tuner set up on my laptop. I just want someone with some knowledge to start tuning during my learning time. Tuning makes me nervous so I want to make sure I have the proper know how before I make too many changes.

Can anyone shed any light on the Whipple?

ewolfe0050 wrote:

OK. Cam is next. Any suggestions on manufacturer and specifics on the best cam for performance? Need it to still be drivable on the street.

Next IC. Which IC is the best in performance?

I have the HP Tuner set up on my laptop. I just want someone with some knowledge to start tuning during my learning time. Tuning makes me nervous so I want to make sure I have the proper know how before I make too many changes.

Can anyone shed any light on the Whipple?

Without doing expensive head work, ZZP's XP cam is without question, the best cam available, IMO. Intense's Stage1x cam is also a great choice. Don't get a compcam for this car unless you want to custom grind. They are not as well thought out for real performance gains as the major performance house cams.

For the IC, I have about zero experience in these air-water systems we need to use with the blower but I would say, spend the extra dough and get the largest core that will fit under the hood. It's worth it.

Basically the Whipple, In comparison to the stock M90, is a larger supercharger and is a twin-screw type blower rather than a straight roots type. The result is that it can push a lot more boost more efficiently (less heat / less parasitic power loss)
The M90 becomes extremely inefficient after about 15psi and typically doesn't benefit much beyond 12 or 13. The Whipple however, will continue to effectively boost up to about 30psi.

Just looking at the numbers side, the M90 will max out at about 400hp (worth of boost + flow) and that's pretty good. It will also deliver unequaled low end torque but if you plan to do big numbers, or anything better than low 13's (a guess) in a riv, you need to upgrade the power adder

Jack the R wrote:

How much does a cam hurt fuel economy?

I actually haven't noticed much of a difference. I'm getting anywhere between 17-20 city depending on how I drive that week.

You should do a long-range driving test at cruise. I'd like to know how efficient low-RPM operation can be with a cam. How are you measuring fuel consumption?

if u want to learn how to tune, go pick urself up a rental car....3800 or so and just make a whole bunch of different changes until you get a feel for how changes effect performance in different areas....i had an 06 monte carlo 3.9l that i practiced on for about 6 months. i feel sorry for the poor bastard that bought that car.

Or learn from others by posting questions in our tuning forum (or better yet, DHP forums). You don't need to rely on trial and error when you have a knowledge base to source.

AA wrote:

You should do a long-range driving test at cruise. I'd like to know how efficient low-RPM operation can be with a cam. How are you measuring fuel consumption?

I fill up every week and divide the total mileage by the gallons I filled up. Has worked pretty well so far.

AA wrote:

Or learn from others by posting questions in our tuning forum (or better yet, DHP forums). You don't need to rely on trial and error when you have a knowledge base to source.

Knowledge from others and personal experience r 2 completely different things, plus he has HPTUNERS and not DHP.

One of the funnest things you could do is get a rental car for a day or 2, take off all of the traction control, hook some nitrous up, and play around with Air, fuel , and spark.

I would never want to be at the point where i jut started my Riv and I plug it in with abosultely no clue how MAF frequency coupled with spark timing can make the car feel like it gains 20 extra HP. Because if you dont know what ur doing......KABOOM!!!! Better to test it out on someo one elses car. Oh yeah...get the insurance.

quote: "Knowledge from others and personal experience r 2 completely different things, plus he has HPTUNERS and not DHP."

Knowledge from others can make your personal experience a whole lot easier. You can spend an entire day breaking things and figuring it out, or you can ask someone who's already been there, done that.

HP Tuners doesn't have a discussion board? They just sell you a box and some software and let you figure it out? Tell me it isn't so.

qoute: "I would never want to be at the point where i jut started my Riv and I plug it in with abosultely no clue how MAF frequency coupled with spark timing can make the car feel like it gains 20 extra HP. Because if you dont know what ur doing......KABOOM!!!! Better to test it out on someo one elses car."

You don't have to destroy something to know how it works. If you don't know what order the spark plugs fire, you ask someone that knows. Don't try it 5 different ways on someone else's car... the rental fees you're paying don't take into account that you're going to try and destroy the car on purpose. Even if you are learning something, it's irresponsible and it's not the most efficient way to figure things out.

I spent over 6 months after I bought the PowrTuner; reading their forums, asking questions, trying little things here and there; before I tried to tune my engine. And even after 20 or so rewrites, I still don't know it all... learning new things every day.

[quote="AA"I spent over 6 months after I bought the PowrTuner; reading their forums, asking questions, trying little things here and there; before I tried to tune my engine. And even after 20 or so rewrites, I still don't know it all... learning new things every day.[/quote]

not everyone can get their hands on a test car, ill agree.

but it took me 2 rewrites after an Intense stage 3 PCM to get everything locked on below 4000 rpm.

Considering what he is looking for, with an Intense stage 1x cam, and whatever other mods he will incorporate into the motor, Intense should be able to set you up with a very close matched PCM. Its once you start getting really crazy, that its a little bit harder depending on ur tuning experience.

Got it figured out guys. One of the GP guys here in Indy is tuning my car and giving me a crash course as well with the HP Tuner. I will learn the specifics in time.

I have a GV SC coming in with the ZZP intercooler. Also a CompCam XPZ with 130# springs and machined retainers, 77mil northstar throttle body, and custom fuel rail which he has been working on. After all this is installed (with what I had previously) with 2.8 pulley should be runnig well with little or no knock.

This guy has a GP with the same setup dino'ed at 412... AT THE WHEELS. Hope to bust the 400hp mark on my car.

BTY.. Have pix of my full exhaust coming soon as well as a sound clip.

Also,
One of the reasons I went with HP instead of DHP is that HP has a little better customer support and is a little more user friendly even though HP is more expensive. Both have great forums to learn from.

ewolfe0050 wrote:

Got it figured out guys. One of the GP guys here in Indy is tuning my car and giving me a crash course as well with the HP Tuner. I will learn the specifics in time.

I have a GV SC coming in with the ZZP intercooler. Also a CompCam XPZ with 130# springs and machined retainers, 77mil northstar throttle body, and custom fuel rail which he has been working on. After all this is installed (with what I had previously) with 2.8 pulley should be runnig well with little or no knock.

This guy has a GP with the same setup dino'ed at 412... AT THE WHEELS. Hope to bust the 400hp mark on my car.

BTY.. Have pix of my full exhaust coming soon as well as a sound clip.

i dont know about 412 hp without heads, valves, and pistons...somone is pullin ur chain. not to met\ntion the 65 lb injectors and some sort of fuel system about the size of mine.

I was thinking the same. 400+ WHP is a lot on stock heads.

AA wrote:

I was thinking the same. 400+ WHP is a lot on stock heads.

THE ONLY WAY THATS HAPPENING is with turbo and that will run him the same price as all the supercharged crap.

421 WHP been done with an M90, no turbo. It's hard to do, but not impossible.

AA wrote:

421 WHP been done with an M90, no turbo. It's hard to do, but not impossible.

9.5:1 pistons, rods, bearings, and everything...heads included. basically everything ive got but different pistons. Im not sure what kind of fuel system they had.

but they have made an easy 428 hp with rockers, and turbo w/ Liquid to air intercooler.

I'm not sure how reliable our engines would be making that kind of power. If I could dyno just over 300 WHP, I'd be running close to 13 flat in the 1/4, and still not worry too much about breaking stuff. With an IC that's realistic. I'd be more than happy to stop modding at that point.

closing in on the 400 hp range.....transmissions come and go like human waste.....well depending on how you drive of course