HELP! My car won't start.........

I got an oil change yesterday. After the oil change, I went to leave and it wouldn't crank. I have a blinking LED on my dash now. They were able to start the car by bypassing the circuit board and "jumping" the starter motor.

This is a 1989 3800 Riviera in MINT condition, VLM equiped with a Mirage security system.

What went wrong?

If it has an aftermarket security system, check to make sure all wiring they did isn't loose or anything. Sometimes the connections get loose in wire crimps. Of course, check fuses and such and if you have a manual or something, see what the blinking LED indicates. Something may have to be reset.

Thanks turtleman.........all connections seem OK - high and dry. The security system in a factory install

If it has the passkey system I would say that is your problem. It happened to me on my '92, the problem is more than likely your lock cylinder. The wires that go through the steering column to the harness are probably damaged. I ended up putting a new lock cylinder into the system but not into the column. I just put the wires into the harness, put a key in it, and zip tied the whole thing under the dash.
There is a way to bypass it completely by putting a resistor in the wires that come out of the harness. You just have to find the right wires and find out how many ohms of resistance the chip in the key has and put in that size of resistor.

TY Rivman but it's not a passkey system (chip in key).

When I move the key to the start position, I can hear the relay tick from under the glovebox. And I still have the blinking LED on the dash.

I'd hate to coble up a start switch and ruin the mint quality of this car.

It's got to be a reset thing with the security system. If I had a diagram or schematic I could figure it out..........

Alex...

Here's what happened -

Most likely, when I hit the hood release for the oil change guys, with the key off and out of the ignition, my forearm hit the reset button for the security system which is located on the lower left (near the hood release).

I had an alarm guy come out and it took him all of 30 seconds to get my Riv fired up. Best $50 I spent all day.

Also, apparently, there is alot of confusion regarding anti-theft devices used by GM in the late 80's. The Mirage Security System was a factory install, the guys at the Buick dealership said it was but all doubt was cleared up when my alarm guy pointed out the Buick logo on my remote.

Anyway, I hope what I learned about my Riviera will save someone else time and effort.

I'm gonna go for a ride...........

Thanx guys

I'm having the same problem now! I hope some1 has an answer for me...

As you can tell by my username... Wanda's in bad shape. Over the last month I've spend over $500 trying to get her back on the road. (Fuel pump, tune up, tags.. misc parts.. etc)

THE DAY I got my tag & insurance, I went to get gas... I made it 1.4 miles... After inflating all the tires ($1.50) I put $20 in mid-grade gas and she died at the stop sign!!!

the fuel pump works fine
All spark plugs work fine (screwdriver test)
Turned over with ether, for 2 seconds...
batteries good
clean oil
good gas...
new air filter.....
There was 1 blown fuse but I replaced it it was the ES/I/P fuse ?
(I don't even know what that is)
I disconnected the battery as a last resort effort... nothing.

NO ONE knows whats wrong with her!!! I cant get it to a shop because I've spent all of my money on her already! I'm about fed up!
PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'95 180k miles...

Sounds like a cam sensor, but I can't be sure. It's worth trying...

ok update... I replaced the fuel pump n filter, I bought a new timing chain, while i was in there i noticed i needed a new water pump, got that too. I bought a brand new computer from the dealer! didnt fix it...all sensors are fine, I bought a brand new, um computer thing thats under the coil packs (forgot what its called) checked all the wires with a ohm meter and did find one that wasnt getting any juice, so i replaced it... and still nothing!!!!!!!!!! omg HELP

Autumn: Derek pointed out that your problem might be the cam sensor. You appear to have ignored that, maybe because there was no context, which is understandable but unfortunate - Derek knows what the's talking about. I have a few minutes this afternoon so I will explain.

The cam sensor tells the engine compute how the cam is positioned so that it knows when to tell each spark plug to fire. It is an inexpensive but critical part. My understanding is that if it fails to give the engine computer a signal during start-up, then the car will not start because it does not know which spark plug to fire nor when to fire them. My understanding also is that if the signal is lost while the car is running the computer can sort of compensate.

As for me, I think your problem may be the *crank* sensor. It is behind the harmonic balancer on the front (Passenger side) of the engine. It is really tough to diagnose because the way the Riviera's engine computer is programmed, when the crank sensor fails it will not set a diagnostic code. That means that when a mechanic is trying to diagnose a problem there is no information to point him or her to the crank sensor to fix it. And the mechanic usually will not suggest replacing a crank sensor if only because it will cost you around $100 to $150 to do it and it may not be the problem. Experience shows, howver, that the crank sensors pretty reliably fail sometime after your car has around 75,000 miles on it. My personal opinion and guess is that they are engineered to last only so many hours of engine operation but I have no data or experience behind that, it's just a guess. If your car is used around town, 75,000 miles on the odometer could be as much as 2100 hours of engine operation. Your '95 has 180K miles you say. in 'around town' city driving that could be as much as 6000 hours. If it fails, the computer can not compensate and the car will quit right then and there.

One of the weird things about the crank sensor is that they usually fail 'bad warm' - that is, they will work when the car is cold and quit when they are heat-soaked. This is not always the case.

Point is - if the car is reasonably well maintained, and quits running like this and the computer is not storing trouble codes it's likely but not guaranteed that the crank sensor is failing/has failed.

If you can remove and replace the harmonic balancer yourself then you really should replace that crank sensor just for 'preventive maintenance.' The sensor itself is less than $50. Get a good one like Delphi, not the cheapest one, there are differences. If you can not do that, it's a good bet to have it towed to a good mechanic and have the job done. If you don't have one in mind, call or visit some and ask if they have ever replaced a crank sensor on a GM car with the 3800 engine. You find someone who's done that, they will verify what I am talking about here. The owrst case outcome will be that the crank sensor replacement does not fix it - but it will eliminate a cause and given the mileage on your car it'll make it much easier to find the real problem.

Another thing - I do not understand what 'check all the wires with an ohm meter' means. Do you have a shop manual that tells you which wire is supposed to be in what state in what mode of engine operation? That is, how do you know that the wire that 'wasn't getting any juice' was supposed to be getting any juice? If you do and you checked, then please excuse me I apologize. If you do not and you were guessing, shame on you. Try Ebay to find a set.

One last thing - all cars made in the US must be able to burn regular gas. However, the Riviera is one of a few that will run better (better gas mileage) on Premium. because with regular the knock sensor will retard the timing so much that your gas mileage goes down -- most likely you will rarely if ever notice knocking but you likely will notice the worse gas mileage. This is also true with mid grade but I am told it's not to the same extent. Then again, the RIviera's city mileage is nothing to brag about anyway...

Hope this helps

Albertj

to Albert and Derek. IM having the same blame problem as these other two guys. 91 Riv, no supercharger. Battery with full charge and i get the clicking under the dash when i try to start, but no clicking under the hood at all.

Have previously been having a problem with the Check Engine light coming on at shut down and with the key removed. but not while the car is running. had planned to change out the engine computer to see if that stops the engine light. any thougths on the whole situation, both the engine light and the new no start problem?

To Autumn: hows it going?

To Donovan: has a remote starter or aftermarket alarm been added to your car? Have you used a scan tool to pull any codes - and what are they?

Albertj

as far as i know, nothing has been added. i havent used a scan tool yet because its not throwing the light while the engine is running, and no ones ever heard of the engine light coming on when the car is off. would the engine computer have anything to do with it not cranking? the starter isnt even trying, but the relay under the dash is clicking

update: as of 6pm today, the damn thing started right up. So.... it was about 40 degrees last night.. would that have anything to do with anything?

My guess is the crank sensor. They are problematic and intermittent, and hard to figure out. Could also be a fuel pump, but unlikely. I doubt it's the computer.

i can change the Crank sensor if i knew where it was. The cam sensor is not something i can get to... i read where it is in an earlier post....

The reason im leaning toward ECM and the fact that everyone seems to be reading over is that i have a Service Engine light coming on when the car is OFF and the key is in my POCKET. But no Engine light while the car is running.

Will the Crank sensor throw that kind of code?

Also when the car wouldnt start, it had been unplugged from the battery for several months. Some said it may have needed to reset itself.


(i really think the PO tried to jumpstart the vehicle, switched the cables, and now my ECM, or all of the sensors are having trouble. Im getting a low oil light, with plenty of oil on the stick. Random Brake lights on the dash. Crazy SES light with the car off. So im leaning to engine computer. Other signs are, the battery was bought 12/07, they stopped driving the car in March 08... so my guess is they f____d it up. and dumbass me bought it) I just think the ECM is easier to replace, and if im still getting odd codes, ill start with sensors. or sell the POS.

jase386 wrote:

i have a Service Engine light coming on when the car is OFF and the key is in my POCKET. But no Engine light while the car is running.

ahhhhhhh

I don't think I caught that earlier. Sorry if I missed it. That is odd indeed.

The PCM is above the passenger's feet. easiest to get to by removing the glove box. You can certainly try a used one, should be available for $50 or so.

is the PCM syonomous with ECM? I already tried the BCM and nothing changed when i unplugged it, so i plugged it back up. still trying to find time to get the ECM uncovered and unplug it to see if the light goes off. if it does ill replace it with a new one from Oreilly. its easier than hunting a used one. then if it doenst work ill just take it back. too bad none of you experts are nearby, im in Greenville SC

PCM = Powertrain Control Module
BCM = Body Control Module

Ill go buy one when i get a chance, and try it out. Im hoping hoping its the problem. And ill send an update when i do!!

UPdate. got the ECM out from under the dash. bought a new one, and the orange socket is green on the new one and the tracks dont match. The store is going to try to match it up tomorrow and see what the problem is.

i should only have to plug and play, and not change any of the wiring connectors, correct?

Yes, ECM should not require a rewire. your guess about the PO might be right on.

Albertj

update again. i should have it this time. i gave them the wrong year for the car... duh.

i was telling them 91 and its a 1990... " I hate a dumbass" hahaha

anyway they ordered the part and i go pick it up later this morning. It should work. ill let everyone know, as promised....

the problem is not that im a dumb butt, i do have 7 cars and a motorhome to keep up with and i have a bad habbit of trying to keep everything in memory.

OK. new ECM in, no funny warning lights, no Service Engine light with the key out of the ignition. all good on that front. Still shifting way too soon.

how do you adjust the TPS?