final clearification - blowers

So my brother works at a junkyard and all he knows is cars, any car trouble weve had my bro took care of it and never worried about having to take his word for it. Well he had 2 ragals GS's, sold one and his ex has the other, so he wanted another and low and behold a white 2001 ragal GSE comes through the yard with 70k and too get to the point he brought it home one day and we were talking about the superchargers and he said that the 2001 blower is better than my riv's 97' blower...is this true because i dont know haha

I believe they have Gen V blowers on them which are slightly different although I'm not sure exactly how. I'm sure someone else will chime in with the details.

The Gen V is a more efficient blower, but not worth the effort for just a daily driver Riv, imho.

BTW, what's a "ragal"?

i dont think any regals had the gen V unless it has been installed after market. it comes with the same engine and blower (gen 3 M90) as the 96-99 s/c Rivieras.

Yup. The only cars with Gen V from the factory are the 04+ GTPs.

1998 Riv wrote:

The Gen V is a more efficient blower, but not worth the effort for just a daily driver Riv, imho.

BTW, what's a "ragal"?

im not sure if your talking about the series III, i dont know about the generations or anything, but my brothers ragal gots the series II and its 2001, i heard that the series III are junk btw....not sure if true either

and ragal is the owners word for regal...and the riv is for the riviera owners or rivi as some people say

Series I, II, and III refer to the 3800 engine, not the supercharger. The Eaton superchargers were the M62 in the earlier supercharged 3800's, the M90 or Gen III, and the Gen V supercharger, for 2004 and newer. None of the Regals got a Gen V supercharger from the factory, as the Regal GS was being discontinued.

in all my years on regalgs.org i've never seen ragal before.

now you have mr. riviera

Good morning everyone!

The 96 and 97 M90 Gen 3 (Series 2 motor) superchargers differed from the 98+ Gen 3 in only one way. The 96/97 has a vacuum tree on the casing to the left of the boost control actuator/soleniod when looking at the charger on a car. That vacuum tree fed the BCS and fuel pressure regulator. The 98+ did not have the tree and instead used an extension to the vacuum fitting (under the SC snout on the lower intake manifold) to feed the BCS and FPR. No other differences exist. Either extending a vacuum line or capping a tree will make either charger work on any Series 2 motor. All GM 3800 Sc'd cars from 96-03 were Gen 3 M90 only. The Gen V M90 became available in 2004 on the GTP only, all other car lines like the Monte Carlo had the Gen 3.

The Series 2 motor to Series 3 motor has three major differences. First is the obvious Gen 3 vs Gen V supercharger. The Gen V is a more efficient design and provides cooler air to the engine. The second difference is the Series 3 has slightly larger valves in the heads. Third is the piston rods are stronger in the Series 3. (pistons may also be different, I am unsure on this though).

The funniest thing is if you buy a Series 3 motor...you will notice the block still says "Series II". Yes, the block is the same and the casing was not changed.

One of my more recently learning experiences led me to learn that the number designation of a charger is the amount of cubic inches of air the charger moves.
M62 = 62 cubes
M90 = 90 cubes
M112 = happiness under the hood.

Good info, Bill. Also interesting is that the same block, heads, & connecting rods were used in any remaining Series II engines made after 2004, but the Gen V blower was only installed on Series III engines. Maybe these Series II engines built after 2004 should be called "Series II1/2".

Bonnie/3800 trivia

The interesting thing on that is back when..in 87ish you had the "C" motor (named from the vin) and then 88-91ish you had the LN3. Starting around 92 the L67 (supercharged) and L27 (NA) motors appeared. From 92-94 they were simply designated by their RPO codes and technically were not Series I. They became Series I when the L36 (NA) appeared on the scene in 95 with S2 on the engine cover.

The S3 has an L32 rpo code and the S2 stuck with it's L67 rpo through 04, yet no complete redo was performed on teh block and motor as it had been in the past for each motor change.

Riviera owner trivia:
back in 87ish i was 1...

but seriously though, this is good info. thank you for sharing Bill.

Yes I ask too many questions...
but is a M112 a direct bolt up replacement for a M90 or an M62??? From all the suggested mods I've read about in these forums it seems to me an additional 22-50 cubes would be the cats ass since the best way to make my riv pull so far is a simple switch to a smaller pulley and a less restrictive air cleaner.

The Gen V is a direct bolt up for the Gen 3 if you enlarge the intake manifold where the charger dumps into it.

The M112 is a serious change to existing everything for it to be put on.

Another bit of trivia World War I was not called World War I until World War II. Before that it was called The Great War.

so what is needed to change to the newer supercharger, and how many more cubes than the m90 is exactly

I think we should have a triviera thread , or rivia, but since the threads off topic anyway.

The reason the U.S. invaded france on D-day was to keep the soviets from pushing all the way through and keeping all the territories as there own. there were 89 soviet casualties for every 1 u.s, casualty in WWII.

Hopefully bill can clear this up for me. My friend, rudolph, works at a race shop (mostly old school detroit cars) and was telling me between the gen3 and gen5 m90, If you port/polish the inlet & oulet of both of them, they are so close to the same (in performance) that it's stupid to buy a gen5. Of course it's better unmodified. They don't handle many 3800's that I know of so I'm not sure if he's right on that. They certainly do deal with a lot of blowers, stock and aftermarket. He also said don't even bother with a m112 on the GM 3800 at least. It would appearently be worth it to do on a ford though (something to do with the blower passage to intake setup being much different).

I'm thinking though that maybe he could be right. If you ask a knowlegable person who sells gen5's and other performance parts all day, they are probably going to tell you that somehow the gen5 is always way better no matter what.

Well i agree on the M112 thing , the limitation in the M90 and all other roots blowers is the fact that it peaks in efficiency at around 12-15psi. The M112s advantage would be that it is a bigger so it doesnt have to turn as fast to make as much boost , which translates to less heat and less parasitic loss . however that would only give about a minor increase in power which for the work involved better gains can be had for the same work.

Quote :

The M112s advantage would be that it is a bigger so it doesnt have to turn as fast to make as much boost , which translates to less heat and less parasitic loss

I'm not so sure. No matter how fast a blower spins, the air will be superheated just the same based on the level of boost (15 PSI is 15 PSI). Porting does lower the heat because the air can flow with less restriction. Also, the M112 uses bigger, heavier rotors. I would think it would exert more parasitic loss than an M90.

Imo, the chief advantage of the M112 is greater CFM at said boost level.

The M112 is supposed to be more efficient and hence cooler to flow the same CFM as an M90. You will drop IAT with the Gen V. At least that's what I've heard.

From what I gather, since the rotors are longer, the same RPM produces more CFM in a GenV, so you can drop the RPM a little to achieve the same airflow you had previously. Lowering the RPM will reduce your temperatures... Feel free to correct me if any of that is wrong.

It is tough to port/polish a gen 3 to be the same as an unchanged Gen V. The V has many advantages and the cooler/more efficient air is the way to go.

The M112 is truly a different monster.