Help!!

Well, my other thread about the missing. Yeah this is sorta related...but in a very horrible bad kind of way. My dad replaced all the spark plugs and all that today and noticed one of the back spark plugs the gap there normally is was gone. The tip was pushed back and it was touching the tip of the spark plug. My dad just threw it away and said "Aha, this is what caused it!".

Car ran fine! No knocking or anything. Drove to the store to get some stuff and then we were on the expressway trying to get some gas. My dad is driving along 80 mph - the missing comes back. When getting on the gas the supercharger is making the missing sound too. A very eriee sound I don't care to ever hear again. Now we thought that was bad. He goes to get off the ramp and had to punch it a little on the way over into the slow lane to get to the ramp.

PLOOF, a big cloud of blue smoke comes out the back. The motor continues to make that clicking clocking sound and then nothing. Dead. Smoke was coming out from under the hood (Not like a fire smoke, oil on the exhaust manifold smoke). The car was totally dead. For some odd reason, the speedo stuck at 40 mph as we were coasting to a stop on the side of the ramp. We got out and opened the hood. Oil was all over the engine cover and all around the front. This is what was smoking, the oil hit the hot motor and it was smoking up a storm.

According to my dad, it looked like tranmission fluid and it smelled like supercharger oil - I personally thought it just looked like oil. The dip stick was shoved out so we're thinking it might've in the process of acting stupid knocked it out and spit oil out under the hood through there. We let it cool off a little and tried to turn it over. Click, click, click. Nothing. Didn't even try to turn over in any form at all.

We're hoping for the best but I think the motor is dead. We had the tow truck bring it to an engine exhange place to see what they can do but they're closed being it's Sunday. My dad says he thinks the piston may have been dented by that spark plug and that as it was running it got hot enough and it just made a hole in it. I personally think the high RPMs made the cylinder keep hitting it harder and harder faster and faster until it just tore it up.

This sucks on so many levels. Now here is yet another issue the GTP has had. First the tranny had to be rebuilt at a pretty penny and its warranty ran out just two days ago. Then the front end got all screwed up and cost near a grand to get fixed. Then something got melted to the hub of the wheel and that cost around $400 to get fixed I believe. Then it had this similar running bad problem that was actually the fuel injectors being dirty. Now this. Not to mention, it has some serious rust on the side inbetween the door seal at the bottom on the back passenger side door.

My dad usually just gets rid of cars when a few things go bad. This is the exact reason my dad uses. We always said he exaggerated - now this makes him look like it wasn't so bad to do that. What I don't get, his GTP has 143k miles on it. My Riv has almost 146k and it hasn't done any of this. The last issue I had was the broken fuel line and it was due to a pin sized whole in the plastic under the hood. Only cost $100 to get fixed.

The GTP has now had just about everything replaced on it. I don't understand it! The tow truck guy was like wow, thats a 3800? Never see anything go wrong with those unless it's a intake manifold or gasket (The issue with the N/A 3800s, I forget what it is). We went to my grandma's birthday party today and my relative was like "Wow, a 3800 had that problem? That thing should hit 250k-300k like nothin'!". The only thing we can gather, the previous owner must've taken SHIT care of this car. They let it get rust, must've ran it with dirty oil for a long time, something! My Riv has pretty much had two owners - the old people who traded it in to the dealer and bought it new and then us.

In one manner my dad says it might be worth it to keep it now since all this stuff has been replaced. Personally, I think it's time to get rid of it and get something else. I suggested something like a gas saver four cylinder but my dad wants a car with power. What I then suggested (Which I know he won't do) was that he trades the GTP once it's fixed for a nice running newer four cylinder five speed and give that to me and he take back the Riviera. He won't though - he had the Riviera already and in our family cars usually don't go back to anyone who had them previously.

It just sucks, 3800s are bulletproof - why did this one bite the dust? Did it? I'm hoping something else went wrong that isn't near as bad but it doesn't seem like it was just a little something...can any of you tell me what you think it did? I might be able to provide some more details if I left any out - just ask me. Really would like to know what happened to it.

If any of you know me, I've been mostly against the Jap cars lately. This has almost totally reverted me to the opposite. I still like my Riv and I know it runs great but what the GTP did was just horrible. I actually found myself seriously considering a '96 Nissan Maxmia. I know so many four cylinder Jap cars that are at 180k miles with regular maintenance - this is just awful. We take good care of all our cars and we've had the GTP since around 100k miles. I just don't get it....

Popped a piston... I would have stopped driving it after finding a crushed spark plug.

Unfortunately a common occurrence on these engines, they'll go lean on the middle cylinders. Any bets on cylinder 3 or 4?

any possibility a piston popped off a wrist pin, or a foreign object was accidentally dropped into the cylinder with the banged plug?

I think your conjecture about the previous owner may be correct; or the car was totaled for some reason (accident, flood) then repaired. In some states this can be done without much of a trace.

I empathize with your dad, regarding getting rid of cars with serial problems. Sometimes it is hard for me too, to take my own advice about certain things. Go easy on him.

The engine exchange should work fine. There's way more than one good 3800SC engine out there.


All the best and sorry about your troubles. This too shall pass.

Albertj

Imo, that plug didn't cause the piston to pop, the piston popped and killed the plug. Like derek said, that's a serious problem - comparable in severity to a loud knocking sound, or smoke coming out the back, or a steady stream of oil pouring out the bottom. Your engine tried to warn you, but it was driven anyway. It's not the car's fault.

I seem to remember you saying you raced your Dad's GTP and kept up:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/racing-kill-stories-f10/riv-vs-gtp-t3634.htm

A few of us commented then that his car was very possibly not modded correctly, and that without scanning, you can't have a clue what's going on inside the engine. THAT's what pops pistons: modding your car without scanning. You might as well be running 87 octane at the race track.

Sorry to hear about your luck Kevin, but this incident doesn't shake my confidence of the 3800 V-6 even a little bit. If you want to mod any engine, you have to go about it the right way, and you have to keep an eye on things - like oil, coolant, and crushed spark plug electrodes. If you'd hooked a scanner to that car 3 months ago, I bet you'd be amazed at what it told you.

I told him that, but he said it was nothing. He did the DP and CAI because I nagged him to. How did it try to warn? Besides, my dad saw it running fine and thought it was hood. A lot of the time I tell him stuff based off here he just says it's nonsense.

Even now, he is going to say the previous owner caused this. Something odd I had noticed when driving it, if you floored it sometimes it didn't want to shift. It had a nasty sounding hesitation when shifting. I also heard this funky rattling sound under the hood (my dad said it was spark knock...I said you can't hear it but he argued otherwise...). The rattling and hesitation concurred.

So most likely he will get another motor, what should he do to prevent this from happening again? What more supporting mods can he do short of an intercooler?

Shintsu wrote:

I told him that, but he said it was nothing. He did the DP and CAI because I nagged him to. How did it try to warn? Besides, my dad saw it running fine and thought it was hood. A lot of the time I tell him stuff based off here he just says it's nonsense.

Even now, he is going to say the previous owner caused this. Something odd I had noticed when driving it, if you floored it sometimes it didn't want to shift. It had a nasty sounding hesitation when shifting. I also heard this funky rattling sound under the hood (my dad said it was spark knock...I said you can't hear it but he argued otherwise...). The rattling and hesitation concurred.

So most likely he will get another motor, what should he do to prevent this from happening again? What more supporting mods can he do short of an intercooler?

NOS, Maybe alcohol injection...........







headers' and/or rockers

NOS is a supporting mod? How so?

Shintsu wrote:

NOS is a supporting mod? How so?

lol read my post AGAIN << that means JK / WINK

pretty sure at the bottom of my post i listed some good supporting mod'z

Well, I'm on my iPhone...that smiley looks like a yellow circle and that's it...

Shintsu wrote:

Well, I'm on my iPhone...that smiley looks like a yellow circle and that's it...

sorry dude.............. iphone FTL

Quote :

How did it try to warn?

A smashed plug is a huge warning that loose metal is flying around in the combustion chamber. Audible knock is another warning sign.

Quote :

A lot of the time I tell him stuff based off here he just says it's nonsense.

How many of us have popped pistons? How many are over 150k original miles?

Quote :

I also heard this funky rattling sound under the hood (my dad said it was spark knock...I said you can't hear it but he argued otherwise...). The rattling and hesitation concurred.

I've heard spark knock from my car before. Usually this happens when your engine has a real problem, like the KR sensors aren't working, or using low octane gas with a smaller SC pulley. Or your PCM tune is screwed up. Knock is another warning sign that bad things lie ahead.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=2845985&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1&cookieCheck=952801503

http://www.personal.psu.edu/jmw474/clubgp/pistons.htm

Yes, I'm on that list.

Definitely need to scan. Also, colder plugs should help. If he plans on modding the next engine, he really needs to do his research first.

Here's the last post:
Add me

1997 GTP
Ubend delete, 3.4pulley, dhp 1.0, SLP CAI, highflow mufflers, mobil 1.
Engine siezed at 95,000 miles.

I put a new engine in and learned that i needed to scan, hello 8* of KR!
I have added headers, 2 range colder plugs, 160* thermostat, new cat, and a fwi.
I need to get a good tune. It is real KR because i put in 5gal of race fuel and my Kr went to 4*.

The mechanics told us what happened. Piston shattered. There are pieces of it down in the oil pan when he pulled the dipstick out. We have to put a motor in it or get rid of it, but at this point we're done with the car. Almost thinking about parting it out or something and getting something else...

Do I think 3800s are bad? Hell no. The mechanic said what we thought, prior owner took poor care of it and then we tried to squeeze more power out of it. I trust my Riv easily, it still starts and runs perfect every day and I hope it always does.

We just can't see it, spending $3,600 or so on a motor for the GTP, a 10 year old car that has rust on the side just seems so wasteful. If it got totalled it'd be worthless. I mean, we're totally stumped on what to do. We're thinking about putting a super cheap motor in or something to sell it but we can't find any that are any good and it's just so...I don't know.

Any words of advice would help, we certainly don't want the GTP anymore...it's just been a money pit...

Link

My dad can get ahold of a local motor with 97k miles and have it installed with a 1 year unlimited mile warranty for like $2,000 something I think. I suggested Ed Morad but my dad said no way in hell will he buy a motor off Ebay. At this point, I'm not sure if we could get by just parting the GTP out or dropping in a cheap motor that would just make it run so we could sell it.

It has a $3k Aamco transmission rebuilt probably 15k-20k miles ago and there are several new parts on the car. The only thing that's no good on it now is the motor. Normally it'd be a "Okay, new motor now nothing can go wrong" but we've spent a FORTUNE on this car in maintenance. Don't know the exact number but it's ugly. We could've bought several much nicer newer lower mile cars as opposed to keeping this one. I'm gonna estimate around 6k+ tied up in the car not including what we paid for it before.

Now add all that up and consider if some jackass totals the car and we get what insurance will give us - we'll probably get like 4k. It makes no sense to keep this GTP at ALL. I'm thinking it might be worth more and be cheaper to us parted out piece by piece and we just buy a $2k car or something. That or sell the thing to someone who wants to rebuild the motor. It'll be losing money but not as much as we'd lose putting a new motor in it. I think it was $3,600 or $3,800 with labor to have a brand new 3800 Series II in it. Even at that the car still has rust, it's still a '98 and the car still has 143k on the body.

Ed is on Ebay because it is profitable and easy to find. Call Ed and he can vouch for everything he sells. He is very reputable and I don't know a single person who has had trouble with him. I'm not arguing with you, but if I could save more than a grand on an engine to put in a car that I'll most likely be getting rid of, I'd try to convince your dad that he needs to call Ed. Ed is not just some schmo on Ebay. This is what he does. Would this make your dad feel better?

http://www.moradpartscompany.com/

I got my L32 with 7k miles for just under $2k. I don't think you're going to get much luckier looking around locally, unless you find a decent one at a junkyard.

I say buy Ed's motor. Swap it in. Drive the car until you find something to trade in on, or sell it outright. It makes the most sense. I'm not saying to keep the GTP, just get it working until he finds something else to buy.

Do you think it has any value parted out? Like I said, trannys good, headlights are both new, all the window motors are good, seats are good, everything works, newer front end (Struts and springs), good tires, good rims, those custom parts, the S/C, all that?

I get what you're saying but that's still $2k more into the car. At best we'd get $4,500 out of it so that'd only get us $2,500 for the car. It just seems like so much money wasted.

I'm sure it does have value being parted out, but you have to want to rip it apart and then you have to find people who want those parts. And then you'll be competing with Ed, even if you do it locally or on ClubGP (where you may find the most luck.)

You might get lucky and find somebody that would be willing to buy the whole car as is. There are some pretty savvy (mostly idiots) people that may have a use for a car with a blown engine. You may post over there that you are gaining interest. Somebody might bite.

On ClupGP you mean?

Thats too bad to hear about the car. Depending on your area I bet you could sell the car and recover some money out of it. I looked at GTPs and 97 and 98s around here were going for like 5-6 grand that needed odds and ends. The car dealer that I bought my riv had told me he had the riv for almost a year and no serious interest from anyone in it. All he could tell me was how well grand prixs of any kind moved especially the gtps. He had a gtp on his lot for like 6500 that was a 99 I belive. It was there less than a week. He only wanted 4k out of the riv. He wound up letting it go for 2500 and taking payments on it which he rarely does. My riv runs very well always serviced at dealer by the previous owner have a very good history. But my point is to someone looking for a car 2500 for the car and maybe 1500 for the motor would be a steal. Especially to a parent looking for that sporty car for the first time driver.

Buying a motor from Ed Morad is not 'buying a motor from ebay'. Ed sells on ebay, but you are dealing with Ed. You should be able to put a motor in it for less than $1000.

Put a motor in that isn't just a junkyard special and have someone put it in? Labor for motor install is something like $1,000 everywhere we've looked. I'm sure you can buy a motor for under $1,000 but not buy it and have it installed.

Anther option to think about is a vo-tech school. I know our vo-tech school with an auto program will do the work for free and you only pay parts.

riviera2454 wrote:

Anther option to think about is a vo-tech school. I know our vo-tech school with an auto program will do the work for free and you only pay parts.

I was just thinking that. There's gotta be one in your area.

Thats a tough call on fixing it or not. Your right about the money. I would be surprised if you can get a motor and have it installed for less than $2000.00 but I am just guessing.

Good Luck, I hope you guys get it fixed for a fair price.

Bert