FAQ: Chirp Chirp Chirp - Belt Squeal, Pulley & Tensioner Squeak

The pulley is not loose. I haven't noticed my coolant level dropping.

Today I went back out and looked at everything again, I start it up and it's fine for about 25 seconds then starts squealing. I could see a fine mist of coolant coming from the water pump. The inside of the backside of the belt is not looking good either. Time for a new pump. Now I just gotta decide if I wanna do it or have someone else to it. Only because i just don't really have the time right now due to work.

That's too bad, because because a pump isn't expensive, and the job isn't that bad. I started mine at midnight on a work night and still got a little sleep!

It's not buying the pump that's a problem, I can do that just fine, it's the time issue. I would like to get more then a few hours of sleep, but we will see.

Dude, do it on a saturday morning or something. You have to have SOME time to do it. This kinda shit puts hair on your chest. YOU HAVE TO DO IT.

I work many hours. I'm in the middle of buying my first house and kinda moving so it makes it more difficult. I'm not whining. I'm just explaining. It's more like my family wants it done ASAP so I don't have to keep using the Aurora.

So go do it! It only takes a couple hours. It could be done tomorrow morning before lunchtime.

Remove pulley bolts
Remove belt
Remove pump
Scrape gasket
Wipe it dry
install new pump

It's really not that bad of a job.

I highly recommend buying a new pump over Reman if you have the option. Airtex used to be the brand to get. Not sure who is still in the game these days. Do it once instead of twice. I hate "lifetime warranties" on cheap parts - I'd rather do the job one time.

Matt, if you attempt this fix, read the part in my write-up about modifying one of the pump screws. It's an easy mod if you have a die grinder or Dremel tool. Otherwise you'll need to remove the engine mount - no biggie, just something to be aware of. I jumped into this thinking I could just pull the pump without much grief, and it turns out you can if you know the short cut.

PS - a shop will not perform the short cut I'm referring to, so you will pay for the added labor of removing the mount. Another reason to do it yourself!

I just bought a replacement, so I'm most likely doing it myself Sunday. I'm planning on doing it the short cut way AA did it. The only thing I had trouble with last time when I did the belts/pulleys/tensioner was re installing the P/S pump. I literally fought for an HOUR, trying to get just one of the bolts to start threading in...

Well I have good news and bad news. Good news is the Riviera has a new water pump and nothing is leaking so far. Bad news is that wasn't the problem. It was fine for 5 minutes, of course I thought I fixed it, and then the belt started squeaking constantly again. I know I shouldn't think this, but what a waste. I knew the old water pump was fine. At least I have a new pump now.

The kicker is, like AA suggested, i just poured water over the belt while it was squealing and it instantly stopped and didn't squeak for a few minutes. My guess now is the Power steering pump, and the pulley wobbles a bit and has always whined since I bought the car, still works fine and everything, but IDK.

Did you do either of these?

deekster_caddy wrote:

Get a piece of hose you can hold to your ear and use it like a stethoscope. Find the source. Could be the alternator, A/C pump, idler pulley, any of the above...

deekster_caddy wrote:

Take the belt off the tensioner and spin and wiggle all your idler pulleys, accessories and pumps by hand.

I did not do the first one, no, but when the belt was off all pulleys feel solid. Like I said, the power steering pump pulley wobbles slightly when the car is running, but it doesn't feel "loose" with the belt off.

Mattwa wrote:

Well as I have been talking about in a different thread here, My riv is going though some rough times right now. The belt started squealing, so I thought it was the water pump and replaced it. Didn't fix the problem. I know it's a belt misalignment of some type, or maybe even the belt got killed from all the slipping, I don't know, I have kinda given up since I really need the car asap and i'm buying my first house and moving, etc, so I'm dropping it off to have some pros look at it and fix it hopefully on Tuesday.

If you have metal pullies most likely the bearing in one or more is going. The plastic ones, what happens when the bearing starts to go is they overheat and the pulley center melts out, the pulley frags (I've done this twice, to my embarassment). The metal ones, they may or may not squeak but that they *will* do is tilt off-axis. Problem is detecting that. When mine was bad you could slip the belt off and tap the pulley gently with a rubber mallet and it would go off axis. Put the belt back on and crank the engine, the belt would more or less pull it back into line. I bought a replacement the next day at retail from NAPA (ouch) because I did not want to bother with the consequences of the metal pulley failing.

The water pump was leaking (based on your post), even though it wasn't wobbling (yet). I believe the pump would have eventually failed, probably soon. So don't fret. It was due. Now it's out of the way. Now move on.

The water test rules out belt slippage, so it also rules out fluids leaking from other places onto the belt. It must be a pulley alignment issue, so IMO the wobbling PS pump pulley is a good possibility.

But you want to be sure this time. Buy or borrow or make a mechanic's stethoscope. Listen to your pulleys one at a time with engine running. The misaligned pulley will make more noise than the others. Then you'll know. Sometimes a rubber tube or long screw driver works fine, but I spent $20 on this:

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52750-Stethoscope-Kit/dp/B0015DLMOO/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1

Honestly, it's one of the best tools I own. It allowed me to locate a noise coming from the AC pump last year - after an AutoZone clerk determined a bad idler (it wasn't), and a 1/2 hour inspection by a mechanic resulted in a confused shrug. Turned out my AC pump screws were loose. Easy fix. Hope yours turns out to be as simple.

albertj wrote:

Mattwa wrote:

Well as I have been talking about in a different thread here, My riv is going though some rough times right now. The belt started squealing, so I thought it was the water pump and replaced it. Didn't fix the problem. I know it's a belt misalignment of some type, or maybe even the belt got killed from all the slipping, I don't know, I have kinda given up since I really need the car asap and i'm buying my first house and moving, etc, so I'm dropping it off to have some pros look at it and fix it hopefully on Tuesday.

If you have metal pullies most likely the bearing in one or more is going. The plastic ones, what happens when the bearing starts to go is they overheat and the pulley center melts out, the pulley frags (I've done this twice, to my embarassment). The metal ones, they may or may not squeak but that they *will* do is tilt off-axis. Problem is detecting that. When mine was bad you could slip the belt off and tap the pulley gently with a rubber mallet and it would go off axis. Put the belt back on and crank the engine, the belt would more or less pull it back into line. I bought a replacement the next day at retail from NAPA (ouch) because I did not want to bother with the consequences of the metal pulley failing.

Thanks for the info, however every single idler/tensioner pulley is brand new, all metal ones.

AA, I agree, it was time it replace it anyway, I got it out of the way.

I'm thinking it's either the PS pump, or the balancer, but I'm leaning towards balancer. Or it could be something as simple as replacing the belt again, I don't know. I do like the stethoscope and plan to buy one, but I think for tomorrow I will use a long piece of heater hose that I have laying around, see if it does anything for me. Even though I haven't touched it, I'll check the A/C compressor as well for looseness.

Doubt anything is wrong with the belt. You've learned from the water test it's an alignment issue!

Right, but it's getting to the point where water isn't helping as much as it did, which at this point is very little, so I think it might have killed the belt as well.

I thought I was having alternator issues but it was bad belt. Tech squirted water on the belt and the noise went away. Also, noises in the alternator won't be as pronounced free-wheeling as under load.

Glad you found it. A squirt of water can tell you instantly if it's the belt or a pulley, or something else.

I have a moaning sound in the engine compartment in my 95 rivi. lower rpm's idle seems to be getting louder

Geo: this could be an idler/tensioner pulley bearing, or a pump (water pump, power steering, or supercharger). Also the alternator has a bearing that can howl when bad. Easy way is to buy a mechanic's stethoscope (w/funnel attachment) and check for the noise source with engine running. Without this tool, it can be very difficult to find the failing component by ear. Another option is to loosen the belts and roll each pulley by hand, feeling and listening for noise and roughness. Good luck!

New to the forum and just recently bought a nice 97 Riviera with 139,000 miles, supercharged. The car has every option and even new tires (it's silver with chrome rims so it looks similar to a 99 silver arrow). It was owned by a mechanic so it's had every problem fixed, including the coupler replacement before it was even bad. The day I test drove it and the night I bought it and started driving it, the temperature was about the same and the car was totally silent. The night I bought it (Monday) I ran it on the interstate a little. Getting on the interstate I stood on it pretty good up to about 85 just to see how fast it really was (never driven a supercharged 3800 before, quite impressed). After getting off the interstate I noticed some chirping, but only over 2500 rpm. I got home and did some looking to find the belt is chirping right at the supercharger pulley. If I spray water on the ribs it goes away and comes and after about 5 seconds. So after doing some research I think its either the belt worn or the tensioner. If you look at the supercharger pulley from straight on in front of the car it seems like the belt moves out to get to the tensioner pulley, but I'm not sure why. The next day (Tuesday) it was slightly (maybe 3 or 4 degrees) colder than Monday and the squeak was still only about 2500 rpm. Wednesday morning (after gutting the intake, thanks for the write-up!) it was quite cold out (around 0f, the days before were around 10f), and it chirped constantly the whole day at any engine speed, however, when I changed oil in a heated garage the sound went away while running inside after the whole car was warmed up completely to about 60 degrees. As soon as I backed out and drove it, the chirping slowly came back to the same as Wednesday morning. It seems like it was silent when it was warmer out the day I bought it, and driving it on the interstate the cold air made it drop temperature under the hood and start chirping. Then in the garage it got warm again and stopped, then came back when I drove it outside as it got cold again. Am I crazy? I'm happy to replace either the tensioner or the belt to stop it, but not the belt and then to find the tensioner is also shot and the orininal belt is ok, or the tensioner to find out just a belt would have fixed it. Both belts are in descent shape with only slight cracking but I am absolutely sure the chirp is coming from the belt right at the supercharger pulley. I did pull the belt off and spin and rock all of the pulleys and they all sounded fine and were tight, and I also made sure the belt was fully on the crank pulley putting it back on. Any ideas or thoughts? If it would help to see what I mean about the belt moving outwards to the tensioner I can upload a video to Youtube and post the link.

This sounds almost exactly like what happened to my A/C compressor pulley. It would go away and come back. Some days it would make noise all day, and other days it would be silent. Underneath the hood it would even sound like it was coming from the S/C idler or tensioner pulley. I'm not saying It's the A/C compressor pulley, buy I think It's worth a once over.

Myself, and turtleman both have this "mystery" chirp. Mine does it mostly on cold startup, but it happens on warmer days as well. It sounds like an effin bird and it's annoying as hell. I've replaced belts, pulleys, and even the tensioner assemblies to no avail. I've learned to live with it for now.....

KnottyEagle wrote:

This sounds almost exactly like what happened to my A/C compressor pulley. It would go away and come back. Some days it would make noise all day, and other days it would be silent. Underneath the hood it would even sound like it was coming from the S/C idler or tensioner pulley. I'm not saying It's the A/C compressor pulley, buy I think It's worth a once over.

It definitely is on the sc pulley, I bravely put my ear right up to it and for sure it is.

Abaddon wrote:

Myself, and turtleman both have this "mystery" chirp. Mine does it mostly on cold startup, but it happens on warmer days as well. It sounds like an effin bird and it's annoying as hell. I've replaced belts, pulleys, and even the tensioner assemblies to no avail. I've learned to live with it for now.....

It doesn't look like the groves on the belt are as deep as the acc. belt and I noticed that the smooth side isn't smooth rubber, its like a hard textured feel and its slighty white-ish looking.  Maybe the belt really is shot?