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 Summer Heat Concerns

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 28, 2007 4:59 pm

wow i just got my water pump replaced and it was in winter and it ran me 450$ for it do u think it was something i could do??? and how long did it take u to do urs??
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyWed Feb 28, 2007 5:10 pm

haha well i'm not exactly on the lease, so there isn't much I can say.. but let's keep that on the downlow happy
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PostSubject: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 19, 2010 2:43 am

Maybe with the coming heat of the summer we are going to see more sensor's that are heat sensitive as well as some major component's fail during the Summer heat.

Anyone see this happen in years past and what sensors and components are more likely to become defective when Heat Soaked.???
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 19, 2010 8:46 pm

I don't think you can proactively replace sensors, if that's what you are asking. IMO there is no way to predict what is going to fail seasonally.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 19, 2010 9:10 pm

The things I'd be most concerned with as far as heat goes, would be transmission, brakes, and engine cooling systems. Heat affects all of these things in a negative way. Keep a watch on them during the hottest months, especially if you run the car hard.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 19, 2010 10:01 pm

Rickw wrote:
Maybe with the coming heat of the summer we are going to see more sensor's that are heat sensitive as well as some major component's fail during the Summer heat.

Anyone see this happen in years past and what sensors and components are more likely to become defective when Heat Soaked.???

Probably not. Would not surprise me to see things croak from wearout but not simply from heat. I would not give it any more thought. I admit that my CKP sensor failed a couple summers ago.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptySat Jun 19, 2010 10:06 pm

I agree with Deek... These solid state devices should last 'forever' in a general sense, but we're seeing failures that are attributable to either bad design or bad QC when they are manufactured. As I mentioned in another thread this week, the crank sensor has 2 separate Hall-effect switches in it, reading the 3X and 18X teeth separately. In theory, they should fail one at a time, allowing the engine to still run while the CEL & codes let you know that you should schedule a replacement. But we all know what bullshit tricks these things can actually pull... (Right Albert?) wink

So, without knowing where the flaw really is, design or manufacture, there's no way of knowing if you should second-guess your sensors - you might just have one of the good ones, and swap in a bad one...
.
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyFri Sep 03, 2010 12:26 pm

I believe it my SC is always scorching after a long drive. Having the new 1 PP and silencer holes plugged, its supposed to ship the end of this week last I heard. Hopefully the PP will make all the difference. Time will tell, I won't know till spring though winter is creeping up quickly here in Alberta this year. headbutt
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyFri Sep 03, 2010 2:24 pm

Klix, in my experience, the supercharger's gonna be hot as heck no matter what after the car's been driven around for a while, especially in the summer months. Don't forget that P&P really only affects anything when you're punchin' it or at least into boost. When it's actually under WOT for a while the P&P helps with heat but I don't think you'll be able to legitimately observe that without a true experiment. Just sayin' after you drive the car for an hour and you burn your fingers from touching the blower, don't be disappointed when you burn your fingers now with the new ported one.
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyFri Sep 03, 2010 2:28 pm

Turtle is right about the blower bein hot. A P&P blower is only good for improving air flow through the blower, it's not going to cool it down any. If you want to cool it a bit, plug the coolant passages that go through the LIM up through the S/C and the TB. This will help, but not much. By doing that though, you block off a lil bit of coolant flow to the rear cylinder head, which a good machinist can fix (on the LIM).
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PostSubject: temp   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyFri Sep 03, 2010 3:28 pm

Thats what I figured. So I had planned on a Devils own meth kit for my SC, but I thought I would try it and see first where exactly I am at.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyMon Sep 06, 2010 12:25 pm

Depends on your perspective, and what 'heat' means to you. There are really 4 types of heat to consider:

1) under-hood heat
2) engine temperature
3) transmission temperature

and often overlooked is:
4) blower discharge temp

All of these are independently controlled, but interdependantly related. For example transmission heat can soak, making a hotter engine. A hot engine bay can create hotter intake temps and ultimately hotter blower discharge temps. Controlling one can impact the others. Yes, porting & polishing the blower can lower heat, even if you can't feel it with your hand.

Under-hood heat is simply the temp of the air in and around the engine compartment. This is normally only an issue when the car is not moving, but correctly venting under-hood heat can help, and also will decrease recovery time once you start rolling again. It can also help cool the engine when you are at higher speeds. It's a good idea to keep under-hood temps as low as possible.

Engine (coolant) temp can be controlled by changing the thermostat to a lower temp spec. When you are moving (on a long trip) your engine will run cooler with the right t-stat. However, going too low with engine temp is not a good thing, and can increase engine wear. Also, maintaining your vehicle's radiator and coolant will help ensure the engine cooling system works efficiently.

Transmission (fluid) temp is usually lower than engine temp on short trips (under 1/2 hr), and slightly above engine temp on longer trips, or after many frequent short trips. Ambient air temp also plays a role - hotter days make hotter trans temp. Trans coolers can significantly lower trans temp. Generally, it's best to keep transmission temp at or slightly below engine temp.

Blower discharge temperature is the one most don't think about, but they should because it's just as important as the others, more important if you are modding the level of boost. This one is of little significance with N/A engines, but for turbo/blower applications, it's a huge deal. Note: the blower is a separate heat source mounted atop the engine. There is the concept of adiabatic efficiency that says when you compress (boost) air into a smaller space, its temperature rises, and not just a little bit... try adding 100ºF to the intake air passing through the blower into the LIM. This means that on a 70ºF day, the supercharged air entering the LIM could be as high as 170ºF. This is air that hasn't even been mixed with fuel. It might be boosted air, but it's also HOT AIR = BAD!

Eaton Roots-style blowers are the least adiabatically efficient type of supercharger. For this reason, they become fairly useless at very high RPM (think smaller pulley). This is why you can't just keep boosting and adding fuel for more power, even if there's no knock - there comes a point where the air gets so hot that your A/F range cannot remain optimum, so you begin to loose power. This is also why people talk about the Gen V blower. It's more efficient, meaning it creates less discharge heat.

There are a few ways to deal with blower discharge temps: CAI (FWI), intercooler, or meth injection all can help by lowering the intake/discharge temps. These all help, but they are 'band aid' remedies. Porting & polishing the blower helps too, not by lowering the temps of heated air, but by increasing adiabatic efficiency to keep the air from getting hot in the first place.

Porting and polishing the blower correctly can lower discharge temps by raising adiabatic efficiency at higher RPM. The more you can raise adiabatic efficiency, the cooler the discharge temp will be. A 100% adiabatic efficient blower (does not exist) would have no increase in discharge temperature. Our blowers are only about 60% efficient at best, but even raising that by 10% is a great improvement. Keep in mind, to realize the benefits of porting & polishing, you must spin the blower faster than the stock SC pulley can, so a pulley drop should be in order.

When you drive the blower hard (WOT, overdriven), you better believe it gets hot, and believe me that heat needs to go somewhere. Most goes through the cylinders and out the exhaust. Some is transferred to air in the engine bay. Some is also soaked into the LIM and heads, increasing engine temp. When you correctly port & polish the blower, you decrease the amount of heat it creates at high RPM, you decrease potential knock (KR), and overall you lessen the amount of heat energy transferred to the engine, transmission, and under the hood. In short, it's all good stuff.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown


Last edited by AA on Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jamax
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyMon Sep 06, 2010 12:52 pm

Aaron, you brought up my primary concern--underhood heat and how to get rid of it as much as possible. The big problem is there's just too damned much stuff under the hood. I read the thread on slightly cooling incoming air to the blower, but that appears to be minimal for the effort required because you're not really getting cool air. You mentioned venting, and that seems the best way, but how? I've used louvers before to good effect, but not sure I'd want to mess up the Riv that way. And suggestions? Possibly remove that rubber strip at the rear?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyMon Sep 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Definately remove the rubber strip at the rear, can leave it out all year round. Next swap out the t-stat to 180ºF. A cooler running engine will have a cooler engine bay.

Btw, why so concerned about under-hood temps?

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 07, 2010 12:38 am

AA is there any down side to removing the rubber strip? I.e. excessive dirt or water entering the engine compartment. I'd assume its as much for noise insulation as anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 07, 2010 10:15 am

AA wrote:
Definately remove the rubber strip at the rear, can leave it out all year round. Next swap out the t-stat to 180ºF. A cooler running engine will have a cooler engine bay.

Btw, why so concerned about under-hood temps?

Thanks, Aaron. I'll do both (what temp t-stat do I have now?).
Concern? I live in Florida. I now drive an S-10 with a 2.8 which leaves no room under the hood. Before I added louvers, at roughly 40mph it felt as if I was hitting a strong headwind.
Nothing but hot air getting into the engine. Louvers solved the problem. According to the writeup on building a fenderwell intake, that helps, but not much.
Louvers would help, but there are no presses anywhere around here, and I don't want to
do to the Riv that I did to the S-10 (don't ask). There is someone on this site who has louvers on his Riv (sig line), but I don't remember where I saw it.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 07, 2010 10:16 am

Quote :
AA is there any down side to removing the rubber strip? I.e. excessive dirt or water entering the engine compartment. I'd assume its as much for noise insulation as anything else.
I assume it's there to keep water out, but it's a common mod to remove it. Not in 7 years with the rubber strip removed have I had a single problem.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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bullseye-shawn
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PostSubject: temp   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am

You can also look at my thread on how I put a functioning scoop on. The results were alot better than I though they would be
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Sep 07, 2010 1:27 pm

Jim, your OEM t-stat is a 195º unit. Dropping to 180º will push the coolant temp needle down 1-2 marks. For more on thermostats, see link:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/should-i-replace-my-oem-thermostat-t27.htm

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 11:34 am

AA wrote:
Quote :
AA is there any down side to removing the rubber strip? I.e. excessive dirt or water entering the engine compartment. I'd assume its as much for noise insulation as anything else.
I assume it's there to keep water out, but it's a common mod to remove it. Not in 7 years with the rubber strip removed have I had a single problem.

Do you have any fogging on your windshield from this? Doesn't this disrupt the air flow over the hood ( The windshield is a high pressure zone. Air is forced downward at the windshield)

From other forums "It changes many things if you remove that weather stripping. It is a bad idea to remove it. If you want proof. Tape small strings to the bottom of your windshield and remove the piece of weather stripping. Watch as the strings get sucked into your engine bay" --It appears this would disrupt the natural air flow, no?

Another "The main risk (actual, real live risk) on many modern cars of removing the rear hood seal is that they take fresh cabin air in from the area of the cowl. Should something be off in the motor you stand a good risk of sucking stuff in that you don't want and that you won't notice until you get sleepy"

Any thoughts?

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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 11:41 am

Mine has been removed for a couple years now,no prob.enigne is sealed anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 12:11 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
.enigne is sealed anyway.


You dont smell fumes in your engine bay when the hood is open? I can definitely smell fumes when I open the hood...not a lot, but they are there (mostly oil)...plus carbon monoxide is orderless smile
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 12:19 pm

I don't think a rubber seal is enough to keep residual fumes from entering the cab. besides,if the hood is open,who wouldn't smell fumes?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 12:29 pm

No fogging here, AC dash vents and wipers take care of this. If it disrupts air flow, I cannot see any adverse effect from it.

I think someone should try experimenting with the strings, to see the results. Even then, I question if it really affects performance. My car's aerodynamics seem fine, as MPG is still good. Intake air is cool, as it's pulled in from the front of the vehicle, so no problem when moving. My engine bay does heat up in the summer, but it is probably more from the exhaust headers than from the missing strip, imo.

You have a valid point about sucking in exhaust fumes, but my exhaust happens to be in good shape. I have a portable CO detector and have driven many miles measuring emissions inside the car. What I found: near 0% when driving at speed, yet near dangerous levels when in town with windows rolled down. Interestingly, no CO with windows down outside of town. So using your argument, a case could be made that rolling down the windows in town lets in bad stuff from other cars. I haven't seen the recall bulletin on this one yet.

Some people (not you, but those at the "other forums") are always going to make cases about things they really don't know anything about. What we've found here is that theorizing can be dangerous practice. But testing and reporting results can give a surprising result - and often not what we expected! I'll take numbers and data over words from a forum any day. I encourage you to experiment and report your results, as there may be something more to learn about this weather stripping.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 07, 2011 12:51 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
I don't think a rubber seal is enough to keep residual fumes from entering the cab. besides,if the hood is open,who wouldn't smell fumes?

Yea, lol.

I'm just saying fumes rising from the engine bay pulled into the vents in front of the windshield (due to the weather strip missing).

AA wrote:
So using your argument, a case could be made that rolling down the windows in town lets in bad stuff from other cars. I haven't seen the recall bulletin on this one yet.

This is true

AA wrote:
I'll take numbers and data over words from a forum any day.

I also agree with this.
Just had some questions before I removed mine, thanks all!
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Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Summer Heat Concerns   Summer Heat Concerns - Page 2 Empty

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