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 Need help, have you seen these codes???

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mdhall1
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Name : Matt
Age : 40
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PostSubject: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:55 pm

My car has a rough idle when in gear (800 RPM) and a high idle when in park or nuetral (1300RPM).
When I am stopped at a light it feels like it is going to stall coughs and sputters a lot. When cruise is set and I start up a hill it does the same thing coughs sputters, I let off reaccelerate gently and it goes up the hill?

Here are the codes I am getting;

P0171 Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0670 Quad driver module 4

The car is a 95 riviera 3.8 S.C. 140,000 miles
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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deekster_caddy
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Name : Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:09 pm

Check your plugs and wires first.
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:22 am

Thanks for the reply,
This is the growing list of what I have done to the car in the last 3,500 miles.
Fuel pump, Fuel filter, TPS sensor, MAF sensor, Plugs, wires, PCV, starter, alternator, oxygen sensor, new PCM, had a local shop do a full rebuild on the transmission. Any other suggestions would be great!!
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:57 am

After you check plugs and wires check vacuum hoses.

Albertj
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:47 am

Thanks Albertj
last sunday I replaced all vacuum hoses except the small elbow hose at the b.c solenoid (I think that's what it is), talked to dealer and all the auto parts places no one has it. Thought about piecing it in, what would you do for that hose?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:01 am

get it from the dealer. In a pinch I'd replace an elbow with a small coil of vac hose of the right ID. Have to watch for loos of vacuum, which would be proportional to the increase in the hose's surface area.

Albertj
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:08 am

How about a little more history, some kind of timeline? When did the engine throw these codes? What had you done before the codes appeared, and what have you done specifically in trying to get rid of the code?
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:33 am

The car had been sitting in my friends yard for 9 months. I bought it form him, towed it home. I first changed the fuel pump and filter, very low pressure. After that it did run, but like crap.
New plugs and wires ran better but not right. Under heavy acceleration it fell on it's face so I thought MAF changed that.
I had a shop in town scan it they said needs TPS and computer $700 I did the work myself
I purchased the actron 9145 last week. I also had p0131 o2 sensor so I changed that.
I thougt the lean situation could be vacuum lines changed all but the one elbow it doesn't look that bad , but i will change it.
This car has only been my daily since mid July. It has never stalled it just chuggs like it is going to , and the car shakes. I wish I had more info I have talked to my friend trying to find out more, he said "it has had that mis forever" he knows very little about cars.

UPDATE
I just spoke to the guy I bought my car from. The motor was changed out 20k ago. walmart paid for it because they forgot to tighten the oil plug after a change he said it was never right since.
There are some relays at the firewall. these look like they have been rigged. the white wire is not connected to anything? The others have been spliced? Does anyone know what these relays control????
Thanks Matt
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:28 pm

Pictures of the relays? I don't know of any relays sitting on the firewall.

Your odd idle sounds like a vacuum leak, double check with some spray to make sure that's not a gasket or something.

It's harder to diagnose '95s because of the OBD-I, so you'll have to forgive my detailed questions...

Try unplugging the MAF sensor and take it for a short ride (no heavy throttle). Does it run any differently?

This could be dirty injectors. My injectors were filthy after 130000 on my '98. What a difference swapping them out!
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:29 pm

On the injector idea - try unplugging injectors one at a time while the engine is running and see if one of them makes no difference... It should run very poorly with one unplugged. If it doesn't change, you might have found the a injector...
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:52 pm

Thanks I will go try right now thanks!

Derek, you are my hero!! There is a bad injector rear passenger side makes no difference wether it is plugged in or not. I purchased 6 injectors and a fuel rail from Ed Morad on ebay for $69

Were can i send these for cleaning\ flow testing??
Thanks again I think this should clear up my problem.
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'96reese
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:58 pm

this is what alldata says about this code, lemme know if you need diagrams and charts. if so pm me with your email address and i will send them to you good luck........


Invalid Diagnostic Trouble Code

This vehicle does NOT generate this Trouble Code.

AllData Editor Note: There is one in particular after market Scantool that still has not been updated and generates these and other Invalid DTC codes.

We've talked with numerous AllData users, and they've told us that the work-around is to use the DTC description, and find a code that matches it. A number of our users have used Code P1670 (close match to P670) when the description matches a Quad Driver 4 Problem.

Our suggestion is:


If you have a second Scantool in the shop from a different manufacturer, it will probably read the Datastream correctly and generate a proper code.
If you don't have access to a second Scantool,



Call you Scantool manufacturer and let them advise you on a proper course of action.




CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is used to control several components such as those in the image. The PCM controls these devices through the use of a Quad.Driver Module (QDM). When the PCM is commanding a component "ON," the voltage potential of the output circuit will be "low" (near 0 volts). When the PCM is commanding the output circuit to a component "OFF," the voltage potential of the circuit will be "high" (near battery voltage). The primary function of the QDM is to supply the ground for the component being controlled.
Each QDM has a fault line which is monitored by the PCM. The fault line signal is available on the data stream for scan tool test equipment display on Tech 1. The PCM will compare the voltage at the QDM based on accepted values of the fault line. If the QDM #4 fault detection circuit senses a voltage other than the accepted value, the fault line will go from a "low" signal on the data stream to a "high" signal and DTC P1670 will set.

DTC P167O WILL SET WHEN


The engine is running.
The PCM detects an improper voltage level on a circuit connected to QDM #4.
The above conditions met for 5 seconds.
ACTION TAKEN (PCM WILL DEFAULT TO)
DTC P1670 does not illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (Service Engine Soon).

DTC CHART TEST DESCRIPTION
Number(s) below refer to circled number(s) on the diagnostic chart.



If QDM #4 related symptoms are present the checks in "Chart 3 of 3" should isolate the causes of the malfunction. DTC P1670 Chart (2 of 3)
This test will determine which circuit is out of specifications. DTC P1670 Chart (3 of 3)
This test will determine if the problem is the circuit or the component.
As the factory installed PCM is protected with an internal circuit breaker, it is highly unlikely that the PCM needs to be replaced.
DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
Monitor the voltage at each terminal shown above while moving related harness connectors, including PCM harness. If the failure is induced, the voltage will change. This may help locate an intermittent condition. Check for bent pins at PCM and PCM connector terminals. If DTC reoccurs with no apparent connector problem, replace PCM.
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'96reese
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:00 pm

and this is what it says about about the system being too lean. nonetheless lemme know if you need daigrams i can send them to you.




CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
To provide the best possible combination of driveability, fuel economy, and emission control, a "Closed Loop" air/fuel metering system is used. While in "Closed Loop," the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) monitors the oxygen sensor signal voltage and adjusts fuel delivery based on signal voltage. A change made to fuel delivery will be indicated by the long and short term fuel trim values which can be monitored with the Tech 1. Ideal fuel trim values are around 128; if the oxygen sensor signal is indicating a lean condition the PCM will add fuel, resulting in fuel trim values above 128. If a rich condition is detected, the fuel trim values will be below 128, indicating that the PCM is reducing the amount of fuel delivered. If an excessively lean condition is detected, the PCM will set DTC P0171.

DTC P0171 WILL SET WHEN


No DTC P0134, P0117, P0101, P0118, P0122, P0123, P0501, or P0502 set.
Engine coolant temperature between 80C (176F) and 110C (230F).
Throttle angle below 91%.
Vehicle speed is less than 70 mph.
Engine speed between 0 and 4000 RPM.
Purge duty cycle less than 80%.
Long term fuel trim above 158.
Short term fuel trim at 180.
Above conditions for over 25 seconds.
ACTION TAKEN (PCM WILL DEFAULT TO)
When DTC P0171 has initially been set, a software flag indicating an emissions-related fault will be set for 3 trips, after which the flag will clear provided the lean condition is no longer present. However, if conditions for setting DTC P0171 are detected during a trip while the flag is still set, the PCM will illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (Service Engine Soon). The MIL will remain illuminated for all subsequent trips until the DTC has been cleared by service or the rich condition has not been detected and conditions for checking fuel trim have been met for 3 consecutive trips.

NOTE: To complete a trip cycle for the fuel trim diagnostic, test must be enabled and run according to the "DTC P0171 Will Set When" criteria above. A trip is not considered complete until the fuel trim diagnostic has been run by the PCM.

DTC CHART TEST DESCRIPTION
Number(s) below refer to circled number(s) on the diagnostic charts.


Visually/physically checking items which may cause a lean condition may determine the cause of DTC P0171 being set.
A mass air flow sensor which causes the PCM to read a lower than actual air flow can cause a lean condition and DTC P0171 to be set.
Checks for a fault in the EVAP purge system which may cause DTC P0171 to set.
DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
If a misfire can be felt and the problem cannot be isolated using the diagnostic chart, use Chart C-4, "Misfire Diagnosis." See: Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures\A - E Charts & Related Test Procedures\C Charts\Chart C-4 Ignition Misfire Check
If the problem still cannot be isolated, try monitoring Long Term fuel trim and fuel trim cell while operating the vehicle under various loads. This may isolate the condition which caused P0171 to be set.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Need help, have you seen these codes???   Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:22 am

mdhall1 wrote:
There is a bad injector rear passenger side makes no difference wether it is plugged in or not.
...
Were can i send these for cleaning\ flow testing??

This guy http://www.codymotorsports.com/ does a great job and gets all my injectors for cleaning.
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