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 Possible pulley issue...

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Z-type
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Z-type

Name : Andrew Zamiska
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Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
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PostSubject: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptySun Apr 11, 2010 11:43 pm

Hi all,

Another one of those stupid little problems cropping up now. I'll start with a little history. Back when i first got the Riv last August, it was shredding the alternator/power steering belt. The stealership figured out the PS pulley was way off center, and fixed that quite nicely. Not a problem since.

Recently, I've noticed a new rattling sound coming from the engine bay. It's not my SC coupler as that had been replaced back in October by yours truly. I've noticed that while the engine is running, the PS pulley seems to be wiggling a little bit, and the tensioner below it is doing the same. I tried doing the 'put your ear to the end of a screwdriver and lsiten for noise' test but I cant even keep the long screwdriver on the pulley bolt to listen for anything - it's vibrating that much.

I took the belt off today and messed with the pulleys a bit - the PS pulley is rock solid, but the tensioner pulley seems to be a little loose. Obviously this COULD be the source of the rattling, as I've heard bad tensioner and idler pulleys before, but could bad bearings in the pulley really cause that much activity in the tensioner arm and PS pulley?

Could a bad tensioner pulley wiggle so much it would ruin the PS pulley again?

I know this seems like a fairly mild issue, but thanks for any advice or answers everyone!
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 12:13 am

it might be of interest to some,but aftermarket tensioners ,from what I've seen,have a aluminium flashing or casting protuberance,that can depending who manufactured it,rub against the bottom of the alternator. is yours a oem? if not ,take a flashlight and look at the area between the bottom of the alternator and the top of the tensioner. if there is touching at all. you can grind down the tensioner until it no longer does. if there is contact,the tensioner cant operate freely and binding and throwing of the belt can occur.this happened to me with a CarQuest tensioner....
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 12:19 am

As Robotennis points out, it might be flash on the tensioner -- BUT -- if so you'd have had teh problem since the tensioner was new, and I did not get from your post that this tensioner is new, or that it has always been noisy.

That said -- yes, fortunately when the pulley bearings go bad they sound off.

Frankly,Andrew, consider just replacing the *(@#&^$*(#@& pulley. It's not going to get better, you can't lubricate it and make it quiet, and for $20 or so problem solved and it's out of your hair.

Albertj
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Z-type
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
Age : 32
Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 12:35 am

Very interesting possibility. But the tensioner was never replaced...the power steering pulley shaft and pulley was adjusted, as you saw Albert.

I guess i was mainly wondering if there could be a problem with the tensioner itself or if a bad pulley could cause it to bounce around like that. By all means, I plan to replace the pulley because it's cheap, but I'd hate for there to be more to it lol. Just trying to sort out all possibilities, really. Thanks guys!
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 12:50 am

Z-type wrote:
Very interesting possibility. But the tensioner was never replaced...the power steering pulley shaft and pulley was adjusted, as you saw Albert.

I guess i was mainly wondering if there could be a problem with the tensioner itself or if a bad pulley could cause it to bounce around like that. By all means, I plan to replace the pulley because it's cheap, but I'd hate for there to be more to it lol. Just trying to sort out all possibilities, really. Thanks guys!

probably nothing more to it. The misaligned pulley via the belt exerts a lot of force where that force is not supposed to be applied, wreaking all sorts of damage when it finally fails.

Really, if the pulley is squeeking just replace it.

Albertj
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 10:43 am

While you are in there, you might as well replace all of the idler pulleys if they haven't been replaced in a while. Also if you are replacing the idler pulley behind the engine mount, you might as well change the belts since you have everything apart. I know that this is a little more work and money, it beats being stuck on the side of the road because a pulley or belt failed.

_________________
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Z-type
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyMon Apr 12, 2010 9:44 pm

Thanks Albert and 98riv...I just bought the new pulley tonight but didn't get home in time to put it on, but that will be tomorrow's job. Should be easy. Just wish there was a little more space down near that pulley lol.

Anyway, yes I do plan to replace all the pulleys. I remember reading about 'when one goes out they all go out'...not unlike old christmas light strings. I just need to save up a little more money (school loans to pay and gas to buy)

I'll let you all know if that was the culprit or not! Update tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the help guys. I hope I'm not being too obnoxious lol...I'm not too car stupid, just careful.
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 9:54 am

Z-type wrote:
Thanks Albert and 98riv...I just bought the new pulley tonight but didn't get home in time to put it on, but that will be tomorrow's job. Should be easy. Just wish there was a little more space down near that pulley lol.

Anyway, yes I do plan to replace all the pulleys. I remember reading about 'when one goes out they all go out'...not unlike old christmas light strings. I just need to save up a little more money (school loans to pay and gas to buy)

I'll let you all know if that was the culprit or not! Update tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for the help guys. I hope I'm not being too obnoxious lol...I'm not too car stupid, just careful.

I wish I remember which is which - but you need to know that some of the pulley bolts have reverse threads. The way to tell (without the FSM) is that they are threaded such that the movement of the serpentine belt is in the direction of tightening the bolt.

Albertj
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Z-type
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Z-type

Name : Andrew Zamiska
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 1:03 pm

Yep I remember some being reverse threads too. I think an easy way to remember which way is this: whichever way you untension the tensioner, loosening the bolt is the opposite direction. Going out to change the pulley now!
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 1:15 pm

Andrew, not sure about a '95, but my Series II has opposite threads on both the tensioner and idler pulleys. It may have more to do with the direction the belt's running. My suggestion is to try a torque wrench turning both ways at increasing torque values until it starts to move one way or the other. This will prevent you from stripping out the threads.

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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 1:48 pm

This is a write up for the series II, but it might help you on the series I engine. http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-replacing-belts-and-pulleys-t725.htm. I am pretty sure the belt routing is different and I don't think you have the engine mount in the way, but it is the same concept.

Edit: Found this link that is for the Series I, http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-i-engine-transmission-f13/write-up-replacing-belt-tensioner-pulley-series-i-t5963.htm?highlight=series+i+belt.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 1:58 pm

and FYI, the threads should be all normal on the series one.

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Z-type
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 2:31 pm

Thanks 98riv...I actually read that thread a while back...it helped a little bit smile .

Well, I changed the pulley. Good news and bad news. Good news, it was easy and I think I fixed the rattling noise problem. Bad news...my steering pump pulley IS still a little wonky and what is making the bottom tensioner bounce around. Not enough to make the belt come off, but enough to notice.

Also what I ended up doing in addition to replacing that bottom tensioner pulley, is replace the SC belt tensioner pulley as well. The bottom pulley was in GREAT shape as it turns out, while the SC one was not. I swapped the SC one with the bottom one, and put the new pulley on the bottom one. Slightly confusing, but it seemed to work out and stop most of the rattling noise.

I say most because there's still rattling coming from somewhere OCCASIONALLY, and only when the car is warm. It's a random rattling too...I don't know what it could be but I don't think it has anything to do with the valvetrain. In that area it seems a noise like that would be more predictable...like on the combustion of a particular piston or something. That all being said, it's not a loud rattle by any means. That's allllll a different concern and for another thread though.
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 2:40 pm

(I can't remember where I saw it, but I saw a vid of an idling series one SC in a GM demo video. The engine was brand new, and yet the tensioner would give random jumps as the engine idled. This would indicate to me that some jumping of the tensioner is normal..)

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Z-type
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Z-type

Name : Andrew Zamiska
Age : 32
Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
Joined : 2009-06-29
Post Count : 1427
Merit : 62

Possible pulley issue... Empty
PostSubject: Re: Possible pulley issue...   Possible pulley issue... EmptyTue Apr 13, 2010 2:42 pm

Well, that makes me feel a little better smile . I hope that's all it is. Like I said in one of my other posts, I'm just being cautious. Thanks guys!
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