Write-Up: Northstar Throttle Body Install

AA wrote:

One of the great things about driving a 300 hp, 10-year-old, 2-door coupe made by Buick: dirt cheap insurance. Maybe I should call up my agent and straighten this out.

$370/year FTW
(Basic Liability)

IBx1 wrote:

AA wrote:

One of the great things about driving a 300 hp, 10-year-old, 2-door coupe made by Buick: dirt cheap insurance. Maybe I should call up my agent and straighten this out.

$370/year FTW
(Basic Liability)

Sucks to live in NY, eh? I get full coverage, with very high limits, for about $400/year.

I know this is an old post, but I just got myself a new N* tb and LQ4 maf from someone on clubgp.
It is the same kit zzp sells with all the adapters and wires.
I plan on installing it tomorrow, but i want to make sure i have everything i need. Oh, and my buddy has a tuner that works with my car.
here are my questions/concerns:
1. I didnt get a TAC module so i will need to do some transmission TCC adjustments. Anyone know what those are? (keep in mind i have a 96 with vac controlled trans pressure)
2. I will upload the lq4 table and see how my tune is. It doesnt have to be perfect b/c i'm getting 1.9's in the next month or so. Anything else i need to adjust besides adding fuel?
4. Are all vac ports the same? can i run the EVAP line to the unused blower port instead of the port on the TB adapter?
5. The MAF fits nicely right into the TB, can i run it there or is it too close to work right? ie, do i need to use a coupler to space it out some?

thanks for the help.
Matthew

I have seen a lot of them leak coolant, so be very sure your gasket surfaces are clean and sealed up good good good. Or remove the supercharger and plug the coolant ports.

Also, I had to make a vacuum tee - on mine I'm short one vacuum port. I am not so sure mine is an N* anymore, it seems different from the rest I have seen.

did you flip yours 180* to make it work? i've see some people do that and some not. mine will not work 180* and is the newer style N*. i also will need to do some vac line rigging since i need one more port than 97+ rivs.
do you have a pic of yours installed?

Mine was preassembled, sorry. I do have a pic of the engine bay, you'll see the vacuum line is in a different place.

thanks Derek. you have the vac port on the TB itself. mine has that port blocked off, but it is there if i can remove the cap.
the adapter itself usually has another vac port on it just like your tb one. maybe you got one of the old style adapters or one from a different company.
As for the LQ4, you have a coupler spacing it out from the TB, is that necessary to get propper reading? i've seen some run it close to the TB, and some run it close to the filter. does it matter?
And thanks for the help!

The exact location of the new maf sensor shouldn't matter.
You can run the evap to the extra vac port on the top of the blower. It will work just like the one on the tb or adaptor.

Tuning wise, I hear it's good to add 30% to the acceleration enrichment table and more importantly bring the PE enable TPS down by 5-10%. It's not fatal if you don't do those things but I think it's a good idea.

If you haven't already seen this, make sure you either have a PCV inlet solution or run a breather. ZZP's adaptor plate comes with that passage blocked. I think you can drill a small hole through the adaptor plate for the inlet.

I don't know about the spacing, sorry. That's the setup it had when I bought the motor. It all came put together that way, and I just left it like that. It works very well though!

i see ports for the coolant, but where does the pcv feed to the TB?

http://www.davetech.net/pics/gen5/gen5-pcv-inlet.jpg

It's definitely addressed here somehow. I don't know why they chose to bring it outside the housing in this case but he did something with it.

http://www.glovertech.com/Car/ForSale0809/L32TB2.jpg

That's a stock L32 TB. Is that the tiny PCV inlet hole near the top left (from the prospective of the picture) mount bolt I see?

http://www.glovertech.com/Car/ForSale0809/L32TB1.jpg

There's the front of it. That tiny passage would have to go somewhere in front of the throttle blade (viewable on the inner bore) or possibly some other more intrequite rought somewhere.

It's hard for me to say exactly without having ever had an L32 TB in my hands.

will the gen 3 be the same way? i'm not upgrading to a gen V at this time, just the N* and MAF.

Mr.Riviera wrote:

will the gen 3 be the same way? i'm not upgrading to a gen V at this time, just the N* and MAF.

yes

IIRC, zzp kind of precut out a pcv inlet path into the TB adaptor and you just have to drill one small hole through it to actually open it for use.

Wow.. just had an idea.. with the stock L32 TB.. we could make Electric cutouts..

Mr.Riviera wrote:

i see ports for the coolant, but where does the pcv feed to the TB?

It goes into a vacuum port that's part of the throttle body, it's not a separate port.

WOOT! i finally got to install this today. i had to work a double yesterday and today
I have to admit, the install went much smother than i had anticipated. Devin came by to help out too.
Here is a pic of how i have it setup right now. I know, the duct tape looks like shit, but i have no more clamps, and i will fix it tomorrow when i get off work.



I was able to squeeze on the Trade-stone silicone sleve but i will need to buy another coupler and make a new FWI. Right now i am using Devin's cut up JMB pipe with a 7" filter taped to the end.
We did a few changed to the tune, like 30% PE enrich, backed TPS down by 7 and copied over the LQ4 maf table.
After a quick run around the block, there are no coolant leaks, no vac leaks, and only a small intake leak at the maf/jmb pipe. We did a few WOT runs and the car pulls pretty good. It jumps off the line and lurches forward at even part throttle now.
I know the fuel trims are not right yet, but with no real tune i had only 2* KR at 60/70mph. We didnt run it past there b/c KR was climbing and its not fully together yet.

I just went to that davetech-net site that was in the first post, depressing, that kinda got me thinkin about this modding the 3800, and if RWD gto be the way to go! LOL. Still the last demod posts were really sad, and true.

If you can afford a GTO or G8, I'd say go for it. Personally, I'd rather put 2k of mods in a Riviera and be almost as fast on public roads. Plus, the Riv will do a lot better on gas than either of those cars.

If you want a domestic RWD 6 cyl car that performs and gets decent mileage, the new Mustang and Camaro are about the only options I can think of. Maybe the CTS 3.5L, but it isn't nearly as quick. Otherwise, you've got to buy an import, as the domestics just don't offer it. With the RWD imports, cost cost goes up.

I love the last Pontiacs, but being the great cars they are, they hold their value pretty well. A GTO is hard to find for less than $15k even with high miles. An '04 100k mile GTO is selling on AutoTrader for $14k right now. Same with the G8. Considering a manual 6 speed is available, it would be a shame not to have it. $33k is the best deal I've found. And then you get to pay for the fuel bill.

FWD has a lot going for it in real world driving. It's great in snow, and it's efficient, not just with fuel but with power. Our drivetrain losses are very low at ~17%. And with some modding, our cars can stop and corner very well, surprisingly good for FWD. Definitely more than enough for some fun daily driving. I like RWD, but I think it's overrated, and I think FWD is often not given enough credit. Probably 99% of the people who say they favor RWD over FWD won't ever drive their cars fast enough to prove themselves right.

Try telling Ford that they can't make a FWD car that's fun (and fast):

Matthew if you're going to redo your intake, I'd recommend a 4" setup and use Spectre's 9774 or 990003 for a really nice fit to the new maf. Spectre continues to come out with nice useful stuff we can use. Take a look at their website! Honestly I can't wait to buy more stuff from them to build another improved intake after I do my ic & gen5.

Also what do you mean about backing the tps down 7?

turtleman wrote:

Matthew if you're going to redo your intake, I'd recommend a 4" setup and use Spectre's 9774 or 990003 for a really nice fit to the new maf. Spectre continues to come out with nice useful stuff we can use. Take a look at their website! Honestly I can't wait to buy more stuff from them to build another improved intake after I do my ic & gen5.

Also what do you mean about backing the tps down 7?

Sorry, that was from sept of 2009. My intake, blower and tune is different now. I believe the pipe is 4" and the filter i used is a S&B.
I honestly dont recall what value i was adjusting for the TPS. i think i recall reading somewhere to change it to compensate for the butterfly in the N* opening at a different rate than the stock one. similar to making adjustment when swapping injectors. I can check my tune later if you like (its on my buddy's laptop)

woops! I guess I don't like to read post dates. I know I have my AE enable a little sooner but I don't recall anything dealing directly with the tps. That's why I was askin

For all you guys running a northstar TB and gen V, how did you take care of the PVC vacuum from the gen V?

Did you tap the adapter plate and run the vacuum line there? I am reading that it needs to go between the TB and the MAF sensor.

I have seen L67 TB adapters that have a tap and nip ready to host the vacuum line but I cannot find a N* adapter plate that has something like this.

I am a noob trying to find his way in the dark on this but I need to get N* throttle body parts ready for Gen V swap and this PVC and EVAP stuff has me all    like

All help is greatly appreciated!

so far, I am looking at LS6 MAFs and 2000-2004 N* throttle bodies. I need the Gen V adapter plate for the TB but I want to make sure I am prepared to handle the PVC thing too.

I really dont even know what I am talking about so if someone can help push me in the right direction I would be truly grateful.


That looks like a really clean solution to me. But I dont know what kind of TB that is???
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/124983.html


Thank you!


more info
http://gtpworld.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=38868

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23688&view=next
Larz01:
Get 2000-04 N* tb w/ cable bracket & ls6 maf in junkyard...same thing zzp does
ebay adapter plate
zzp wire harnesses
.........................................................................
You need to make a functional pcv system, breathers are for junk builds; run a catch can setup. Cap off the nipple on the backside of the gen v (the fresh air side of factory pcv) run a line from N* to fc, on rear vc add a pcv valve and catch can run line back into a vacuum source after tb blade. (Mine just runs factory pcv valve in stock location).

If you're installing a northstar throttle body and genV blower at the same time (no intercooler), it's very simple. Do exactly what the fiero dude did in that first picture where the hose is run from the vertical 3/8 nipple on the blower to the top side of the throttle body. The only complication is that your northstar throttle body may have a nipple there for you or it may be plugged off. ZZP sells their's with a plug pressed in in which case you have to remove it and install a nipple yourself. You can either find a nipple to press in there or tap it with a 1/8npt tap (don't need to drill) enough to thread in a fitting securely and install your nipple. That will give you a perfectly factory PCV function.

Ha! Nipples.....