Big Confusing Problem

Hey guys,

I don't usually like to make many posts (clutter) but I do actually have a problem this time, and I need experts. In my post about my Lesabre T-type, I mentioned me changing the passenger axle out because i ripped the boot on the original one I bought for the swap. No biggie, except I ripped the boot on the new one again. Fine. My fault, I'll drive it until it breaks and the grease gets flung everywhere. Well it did that in less than 40 miles, and did something I've never seen before.




It appears to have collapsed and gotten twisted somehow! How in the heck does that even happen? I took the clamp off and it REALLY WAS twisted around. I don't get that.

So I ordered a new axle since I did technically screw up the replacement. 20 miles later, same damn thing. I did not rip the boot installing it this time, but it got twisted around and ripped itself in half. (the regular hose clamp was an afterthought by me which is another story, but still functioned the same)





How on this green earth does something like this even happen? And two axles in a row? Bad manufacture? The axle did not seem over extended to me at any point. I'm at a loss, or maybe I"m not thinking clearly. The axle I used is for a '95 SSEi - I have the 4t60E-HD on the H-body platform, so by the book it's correct.

Thank you everyone.


EDIT: I see replacement boots are available. Is it worth trying one of those? There's a couple brands available (Moog, Dorman, Raybestos).

Is it rubbing something when the suspension is loaded?

Not at all. I looked at that after the first replacement axle and loaded I have about 1/2" of clearance at the closest possible contact point.

The only thing I can thinks is on right turns it's over-extending perhaps, stretching the boot too much and causing it to wrinkle?

It's possible that the retaining ring inside the boot (assembled by the manufacturer) isn't seating correctly causing it to temporarily come out of the splines and turning. It's also plausible that the axle itself is just too short, or you have some unwanted movement in the powertrain causing it to come apart. That's the only way that your problem can happen. I just had our "axle" guy come look at the pictures, and he thought the same thing I did. Something isn't lining up correctly in the drivetrain....or you keep getting bunk axles. However, 3 in a row is extremely unlikely.

There isn't anything you can really do during installation to cause that. It's well beyond your control at this point.

I had a thought that it might be a problem like that. And just to clarify, the original axle (purchased new from the same manufacturer 3 years prior) did not do this. The last 2 ive bought, same part number and all, have.

I guess theyre just not being made too well? Anything i can do to fix the inner joint? my engine mounts are all new and i cant find any source of movement. I figure if the movement was that bad id have other issues or the axles would have been affected long ago.

I'd be half tempted to cut the inner boot off and see what's going on with it. That absolutely should not happen.

Is it possible that the distance from the Hub to the Tranny is a slight bit longer on the Lesabre than it would be on a Bonneville? If thats the case, maybe its not seating properly under load. Perhaps its such a miniscule amount that you got away with it for awhile on the original axle?

I dont think this pertains much but I feel your pain..

For what it's worth.. after I had the eibach springs installed, both of my axles exploded within weeks of each other. Probably from the new angle since the suspension was lowered? I'm not for sure.

I got them both replaced and havent had a problem since. I still have grease stains all up in my engine bay that remind me of those terrible times..

i had same problem happen to me on my riviera they sent me the wrong cv shaft, when installing it the one they sent me just kept popping out of the trans axel it just wasnt long enough. On the rivi the passenger side is longer than driver. I would double check and make sure u got the right part.

Abaddon wrote:

It's possible that the retaining ring inside the boot (assembled by the manufacturer) isn't seating correctly causing it to temporarily come out of the splines and turning. It's also plausible that the axle itself is just too short, or you have some unwanted movement in the powertrain causing it to come apart. That's the only way that your problem can happen. I just had our "axle" guy come look at the pictures, and he thought the same thing I did. Something isn't lining up correctly in the drivetrain....or you keep getting bunk axles. However, 3 in a row is extremely unlikely.

There isn't anything you can really do during installation to cause that. It's well beyond your control at this point.

Yep.

What you **can** do is replace the boot, if you field install a good boot this should not happen. The fun part is the sticky CV boot grease.

My guess is that to save a nickel per boot the reman house cheaped out on the boots.

I like the thermoplastic boots that have been available at GM dealers and independent parts stores from time to time -- you might want to ask. I don't know about the silicone boots but they sound like hi-temp applications.

Thank you so much for the advice and suggestions!

I am off tomorrow and Thursday, and after I powerwash the deck in the morning I intend to give the T-type my full attention. Im going to pull apart all 3 axles and clear away the grease. Then im going to install the 2nd axle without the boot and get pictures of the joint at different loads and turn angles.

Anything else i should try so we can better anyalyze this? Also, i cant seem to find a clear answer on the web about removing the tripod so i can install a new boot. AND to see if it was slipping on the splines.

This is what you're going to see when you take it apart. The tripod is splined and held on with 2 retaining rings...just like the lock rings that snap into place inside the trans. I'm betting that one of those rings is either missing, or not seated correctly causing this issue. If the axle is in fact intact, you have a whole new concern on your hands.



If everything inside is ok, either the axle is too short, or something has gone wrong with the car (reasons mentioned already). You didn't change knuckles or anything did you? Hub change? Anything?

Thank you for the diagram, that makes it easy.

No hub change since the swap. The hubs original to the car have a smaller diameter bore with less splines, so they were replaced with brand new Timken hubs intended for a Bonneville SSEi. They are identical dimensionally to the stock hubs, just the different axle diameter.

Spindles/knuckles are stock and original.

The original axles i used are a different part number than the replacements I got. Im guessing theyre too short. My other guess is I would possibly have to get an axle for say, and regular 1995 Lesabre/Bonneville, without the HD trans differential. This may make up the slack that could be missing And over extending this axle (if in fact that is the problem).

Ill know more for sure when I tear apart the axles on the table.

Well....

I have my Riv in the shop for rack n pinion replacement today...

Mechanic just called me and said my CV axle boot is torn...

Just replaced it like 10 months ago.

Ok I did some inspection and tests today. I tried to be a scientific as possible. Some pics:

This is the last replacement axle/joint without the boot in the way. Just to show where the tripod is hanging out in relation to it's housing. It's right in the middle. This is with the car in the air, suspension unloaded.


Now this is the wheel turned all the way to the right, where I would assume the biggest change if that axle would move in or out. No change at all, and nothing moved in the least when I spun the axle. Wheel turned left was the same. Suspension still unloaded.



This is the car on the ground at ride height (obviously the wheel was off, I had the suspension sitting on a block to achieve proper height) . Left or right turn, nothing was stressed and the joint did not move in or out, even with multiple revolutions.  the axle was nice and perpendicular or parallel to everything, so I think geometry is out of the picture now as a failure factor.




So I went to the table and had a stab at removing the tripods of the 2nd replacement and my original. My original was tight, the clips were difficult to remove and I expected that. No play laterally or longitudinally on the splines. The tripod slid off with some encouragement from a small rubber mallet.


The replacement axle had what I would consider inexcusable play on the splines. It moved along the axle shaft and just ever so slightly between splines. The clips came off VERY easily  and the tripod basiclaly fell off. Crappy tolerances from the factory is my conclusion.

Also of note, the bearings in my original are HUGE compared to the replacement axle. I could not see any real wear on either axle or joint or housing from either axle. I think the answer is to re-boot the original axle, shove some new grease in there and be on my way.

Opinions?

Alright...the replacement boot kit was a bust, and now I have no good axles to use because of the stupid clamps you have to use and I screwed them all up.

Anyway, out of desparation I ordered an axle for tomorrow morning from Advance from some brand I've never heard of. If this one craps the bed then at least it's a local purchase.

I did some more research for just-in-case and a '95 Riviera axle is about an inch longer than a Bonneville axle and has the same splines.

An update for y'all. The axle I ordered from Advance is actually a rebuilt axle, which is good. It means it has original joints and was just cleaned up and re-booted.

I installed it in just a few minutes this morning after double checking the spline count and length. It was identical to my original and it went right in with little effort, and everything fell back together nicely. Took it on a test drive and it doesnt seem to be over-extending or binding or anything like that.

One thing I did notice is the car seems to be putting more power to the ground now from a stop. Those other two replacement axles really must have been doing a number on themselves.

Conclusion - buy rebuilt axles, not new. No question. I will update in a few weeks and report how it's holding up!

Damned bunk axles....

Honest to goodness. I have 3 identical axles sitting behind the garage in my scrap steel pile now. Unbelievable.