Impossible to Cure Wiper Hop

My 97 has had terrible wiper hop for as long as I can remember no matter how wet the windshield. On a totally dry windshield they are fine, no matter what cleaning method I do (besides Windex, was worth a shot) the glass feels nice and smooth. Over the last almost 2 yeas I have tried over 12 different blades of various designs (beam, hybrid, conventional, brands are Trico, Michelin, Rainx, Bosch, and Napa), I have tried claying the windshield, cleaning it with Windex, Invisible Glass, rubbing alcohol, Bar Keepers Friend, Bon Ami, applying Rainx, waxing it, drying it with a chamois after a wash and not cleaning it with any cleaners . I've tried leaving the blade rubber alone, rubbing them with Invisible Glass, Windex, rubbing alcohol, denatured alcohol, as well as Rainx. The arms are not bend, the blade is trailing the arm properly. The blades hopped with the original wiper arms as well as the new ones I got from a junk yard and painted and double checked the angle on the glass (Original drivers side spring broke). The last combination that I thought was the solution was Rainx treated glass, Rainx Latitude Blades (not the new ones that apply it), and Rainx wiped on the rubber as well. Drove it in the rain last night and had to barely use the wipers due to the Rainx working, and after about 20 minutes of random use they were right back to their normal hoping. I'm so sick of trying to fix it that I'm about to give up and just make sure it always has Rainx on the windshield and hope I don't have to use the wipers. What am I doing wrong?

stydel311 wrote:

My 97 has had terrible wiper hop for as long as I can remember no matter how wet the windshield.  On a totally dry windshield they are fine, no matter what cleaning method I do (besides Windex, was worth a shot) the glass feels nice and smooth.  Over the last almost 2 yeas I have tried over 12 different blades of various designs (beam, hybrid, conventional, brands are Trico, Michelin, Rainx, Bosch, and Napa), I have tried claying the windshield, cleaning it with Windex, Invisible Glass, rubbing alcohol, Bar Keepers Friend, Bon Ami, applying Rainx, waxing it, drying it with a chamois after a wash and not cleaning it with any cleaners .  I've tried leaving the blade rubber alone, rubbing them with Invisible Glass, Windex, rubbing alcohol, denatured alcohol, as well as Rainx.  The arms are not bend, the blade is trailing the arm properly.  The blades hopped with the original wiper arms as well as the new ones I got from a junk yard and painted and double checked the angle on the glass (Original drivers side spring broke).  The last combination that I thought was the solution was Rainx treated glass, Rainx Latitude Blades (not the new ones that apply it), and Rainx wiped on the rubber as well.  Drove it in the rain last night and had to barely use the wipers due to the Rainx working, and after about 20 minutes of random use they were right back to their normal hoping.  I'm so sick of trying to fix it that I'm about to give up and just make sure it always has Rainx on the windshield and hope I don't have to use the wipers.  What am I doing wrong?

Wrong? Not much except you likely (still) have a bent / warped wiper arm. Get a piece of cardboard and wrap it around the flat metal part of the arm and bend it so the pin that goes thru the wiper is perfectly parallel to the plane of the windshield. And I mean perfectly.

You may need to replace wiper blades anyway if the ones on are old enough to have taken a "set." The wiper blade should drag when it sweeps. If it scrapes (like ice scraper) instead of drags (like knife to frost a cake) either the blade is at wrong angle, the spring is not right, or the blade refill is too weathered and hardened somewhat.

You may need to replace the wiper arms if the springs have become too weak. I can't answer that one from here, though.

New wiper arms from a junkyard are NOT new wiper arms. Springs fatigue with age and weather. Sorry but You were unlikely to succeed trying that one.

Depending on your car's history you may need to bend a brand-new arm to get it right. Usually not, but occasionally.

Albertj

....or your wiper transmission/linkage is getting corroded and not moving freely. You may need to lube all the pivot points with a good penetrating grease.

I find that RainX is often the CAUSE of hopping wipers. Check the age of your bottle of rainX though - I think that newer formulations don't cause it as badly.

deekster_caddy wrote:

I find that RainX is often the CAUSE of hopping wipers. Check the age of your bottle of rainX though - I think that newer formulations don't cause it as badly.

Had not thought of that -- RainX in combination with a binding transmission/linkage would 100% make the wipers chatter.

Thanks Abaddon. By the way how's the new house?

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Wrong?  Not much except you likely (still)  have a bent / warped wiper arm.  Get a piece of cardboard and wrap it around the flat metal part of the arm and bend it so the pin that goes thru the wiper is perfectly parallel to the plane of the windshield.   And I mean perfectly.

You may need to replace wiper blades anyway if the ones on are old enough to have taken a "set."  The wiper blade should drag when it sweeps.  If it scrapes (like ice scraper) instead of drags (like knife to frost a cake) either the blade is at wrong angle, the spring is not right, or the blade refill  is too weathered and hardened somewhat.

You may need to replace the wiper arms if the springs have become too weak.  I can't answer that one from here, though.

New wiper arms from a junkyard are NOT new wiper arms.  Springs fatigue with age and weather. Sorry but You were unlikely to succeed trying that one.

Depending on your car's history you may need to bend a brand-new arm to get it right.  Usually not, but occasionally.

Albertj

The alignment on the newer arms was good as far as I know but I will recheck them. I know the junkyard arms are not new, they were replacements since the drivers side spring broke and I looked everywhere to buy new ones and from what I found they don't exist. I have noticed that if you push on both arms when they are running they run smoother or if you take one arm off and leave the other on one the one still on the car runs smooth.

Abaddon wrote:

....or your wiper transmission/linkage is getting corroded and not moving freely. You may need to lube all the pivot points with a good penetrating grease.

I have also thought of this but I was not sure how to get to the linkages below the cowl.

deekster_caddy wrote:

I find that RainX is often the CAUSE of hopping wipers. Check the age of your bottle of rainX though - I think that newer formulations don't cause it as badly.

I tried Rainx as a last chance effort since nothing else was helping, if anything else I just wouldn't have to run the wipers since the Rainx was doing its job (had to do that yesterday on a 400 mile trip since the wipers were hoping violently). The only thing I've found that can make the wipers work temporarily is if I spray washer fluid (either regular blue or the orange Rainx stuff), after 5 wipes or so they go back to hoping. The bottle of Rainx I have was purchased last year so it's not too old. I also bought Rainx's glass cleaner that applys Rainx so if I clean the windshield it doesn't "remove" any of the Rainx coating, I figured this would help it last a little longer along with the orange washer fluid.

i found the less chemicals on my windshield the less they chatter, when mine start to do that i hit my washer fluid and it seems to cure it temporarily. i also heard that any wiper besides conventional is more likely to chatter, i can vouch for that because my cheap autozone conventional wipers were less noisy then my rain x latitudes

h20man wrote:

i found the less chemicals on my windshield the less they chatter, when mine start to do that i hit my washer fluid and it seems to cure it temporarily. i also heard that any wiper besides conventional is more likely to chatter, i can vouch for that because my cheap autozone conventional wipers were less noisy then my rain x latitudes

Today I made sure they were exactly perpendicular to the glass, clayed the glass, scrubbed it with Bon Ami, cleaned it all together with Invisible Glass, and even pulled the cowl off and shot the pivot points with Napa Sil Glyde. The one linkage seemed to move a little bit on the motor so I made sure it was tight (it tightened a little). Put it all back together and put a set of Trico Force blades on I had bought a little bit earlier and it seems slightly better, time will tell. The only thing I can think is the glass is just too clean and as it gets a little dirtier they will get better.

Was thinking today, the windshield has pitted over the years and is scratched on both wiper paths like it had old blades on it or had sand sitting on them each time they got used, maybe the glass could be the issue?

stydel311 wrote:

Was thinking today, the windshield has pitted over the years and is scratched on both wiper paths like it had old blades on it or had sand sitting on them each time they got used, maybe the glass could be the issue?

I am diving into this problem because I think I will have to deal with it at some point.

My driver side wiper currently chatters a little, but I also notice the rubber refill has become so stiff it does not "flop" the way it is supposed to. So it chatters only on the upsweep, the direction in which the refill has taken a "set." I already got replacement blades, the OEM style (rockauto has them on closeout), just have not put them on yet (need to very soon).

I kind of wonder if the spring in the wiper arm can be replaced somehow. I imagine it would tend to lose tension a little with age and use but I am not sure.

As big as GM's parts bin is, I suspect:

(1) there is a wiper arm with similar length and geometry but a different end, like hook instead of pin, that would fit.
(2) there may be a restoration arm that would fit, to wit see https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-kit-wip-5 (these are for the '64 Mustang). So we'd need to find any wiper arm with similar base and geometry that is intended to have a 22" or so wiper on the end.
(3) get one with the same base but different end, and install the old ends (the flat metal part with the pin in the plastic end fitting from your current wiper arm) into the base (drill out the old rivet, drill in a second rivet hole and secure the old end to the new base using 2 rivets and JB Weld or some such). If needed, paint the whole thing flat black with Rustoleum 251574 or VHT SP27 or some such over suitable primer.
(4) find a close Dorman HELP replacement and modify it per (3) above. I think Dorman 42832 (Chevy Blazer arm) might work.
(5) Quietly ask the friendly GM parts counter person at your local dealer whether the arms are available to dealers through Vintage Parts - give her/him the numbers 25695422, 25695423 for the right and left arms respectively. If counter person does not know what is Vintage Parts, find a different dealer.

Which of these approaches do you (all) think might work?

Albertj

albertj wrote:

stydel311 wrote:

Was thinking today, the windshield has pitted over the years and is scratched on both wiper paths like it had old blades on it or had sand sitting on them each time they got used, maybe the glass could be the issue?

I am diving into this problem because I think I will have to deal with it at some point.  

My driver side wiper currently chatters a little, but I also notice the rubber refill has become so stiff it does not "flop" the way it is supposed to.  So it chatters only on the upsweep, the direction in which the refill has taken a "set." I already got replacement blades, the OEM style (rockauto has them on closeout), just have not put them on yet (need to very soon).  

I kind of wonder if the spring in the wiper arm can be replaced somehow.  I imagine it would tend to lose tension a little with age and use but I am not sure.  

As big as GM's parts bin is, I suspect:  

(1) there is a wiper arm with similar length and geometry but a different end, like hook instead of pin, that would fit.  
(2) there may be a restoration arm that would fit, to wit see https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdk-kit-wip-5 (these are for the '64 Mustang).  So we'd need to find any wiper arm with similar base and geometry that is intended to have a 22" or so wiper on the end.  
(3) get one with the same base but different end, and install the old ends (the flat metal part with the pin in the plastic end fitting from your current wiper arm) into the base (drill out the old rivet, drill in a second rivet hole and secure the old end to the new base using 2 rivets and JB Weld or some such).  If needed, paint the whole thing flat black with Rustoleum 251574 or VHT SP27 or some such over suitable primer.
(4) find a close Dorman HELP replacement and modify it per (3) above.  I think Dorman 42832 (Chevy Blazer arm) might work.  
(5) Quietly ask the friendly GM parts counter person at your local dealer whether the arms are available to dealers through Vintage Parts - give her/him the numbers 25695422, 25695423 for the right and left arms respectively.  If counter person does not know what is Vintage Parts, find a different dealer.

Which of these approaches do you (all) think might work?

Albertj

I was hoping to find another Buick at the junk yard that just happened to have the same shape arms, however with a hook end instead of a pin that way I could run Bosch Icons.  From what I've seen any of the GM cars with the arms that park on the blocks are pin arms with the little wedges to ride up onto the block, and the ones with hooks don't have a park system or a lift up block system.  I looked at a Park Avenue thinking that would be the best bet for hooks on similar arms but they are longer between the mount and the pivot (assuming they actually clear the hood to stay up for winter weather?).  My windshield is getting replaced next year so it will be a while until I can actually confirm if it is the glass or the arms, then the arms will be the only thing that isn't new.  I did put a fish scale on both arms and got 2 lbs of down force, not sure how accurate that is and what they are suppose to be.

The parts are generally available for 10 years, from GM (in my experience longer for Lincolns) so 2005 sounds right for the DeVille arms available thru a dealer.  

The GM dealers that 2-step parts on the net all seem to show the Riviera arms are unavailable anymore.  That is why I suspect they may be available through Vintage Parts.  Vintage Parts is a company. (see http://www.vpartsinc.com/ ) They purchase "obsolete" (10+ Y. O. ) OE parts that GM does not scrap for whatever reason.  Your Problem Is that VP only sells to authorized customers, and the manufacturers get a say in who is authorized. Vintage Parts orders are a pain;  GM dealers are authorized BUT many parts counter people absolutely will not place VP orders for their retail customers because of that pain.  And I do not blame them at all. So...  IF you have a counterperson at a GM dealer who likes you and IF they have some time on their hands (and IF you don't tell anyone they are getting you parts from Vintage) THEN you might be able to buy them.

The other source for obsolete parts, again through the dealers, is dealer inventories.  For various reasons some dealers stockpiled come parts or some models - for whatever reason.  When they are willing to sell from that stock they show the inventories on that network.  I picked up a pristine hood liner that way.

As for improving the pressure from the wiper arms themselves, these might work: https://www.amazon.com/SureWipe-Universal-Add-Pressure-Spring/dp/B00PB0YCDU.

Thinking about it some more, you **may** be able to get it to work better by lubricating the ends of the spring, and the hinges on the arm, with WD-40 or some such.  IF that does not help enough, you might want to try raising the arm perpendicular to the windshield and then  bending it a little toward the windshield  along the plane of the base hinge pin.

I rubbed the glass really well with rubbing compound and they seem to be better. I tried running them and spraying them with tap water in a squirt bottle and they were still doing it so I figured it didn't work. However, the past few mornings they have worked smoothly cleaning dew off the windshield, so maybe this is fixed (knock on wood). They work smoothly with washer fluid just like before as well.

stydel311 wrote:

I rubbed the glass really well with rubbing compound and they seem to be better.  I tried running them and spraying them with tap water in a squirt bottle and they were still doing it so I figured it didn't work.  However, the past few mornings they have worked smoothly cleaning dew off the windshield, so maybe this is fixed (knock on wood).  They work smoothly with washer fluid just like before as well.

Thanks and congrats!

You may still want to lubricate the arm pivot points.

So after a few months and some playing around, the Trico Force blades I have put on only work smoothly if it is pouring.  I have found the problem to most likely be that the universal mounts on new wiper blades allow the blade to tweak left and right a little instead of staying perfectly perpendicular to the arm.  I made a slo-mo video of them hopping with my iPhone and you could see that the blades would stop on one end or the other and then spring forward suddenly.  Both blades would do this repeatedly and randomly from each other and cause them to jerk back and forth going up or down.  To try and fix this I have put on a set of Bosch Excel+ blades and put a small black zip tie around the arm and through the frame on the wiper, squeezed the wiper toward the arm a little and tightened the zip tie (not super super tight, but tight).  Now if you try to wiggle the blade on the pin it is dead solid with the arm.  I'll update when I know how this works.

stydel311 wrote:

So after a few months and some playing around, the Trico Force blades I have put on only work smoothly if it is pouring.  I have found the problem to most likely be that the universal mounts on new wiper blades allow the blade to tweak left and right a little instead of staying perfectly perpendicular to the arm.  I made a slo-mo video of them hopping with my iPhone and you could see that the blades would stop on one end or the other and then spring forward suddenly.  Both blades would do this repeatedly and randomly from each other and cause them to jerk back and forth going up or down.  To try and fix this I have put on a set of Bosch Excel+ blades and put a small black zip tie around the arm and through the frame on the wiper, squeezed the wiper toward the arm a little and tightened the zip tie (not super super tight, but tight).  Now if you try to wiggle the blade on the pin it is dead solid with the arm.  I'll update when I know how this works.

...at some point, you'll figure out that you have to do something about the arms themselves.

best thing to do is take some 0000 steel wool and soap and water and give the windshield a good scrub.remove unseen grime. I bought the Duralast wipers.they have aero attachments on them and they work good. I've had the same hopping problem and the wipers solved them.

robotennis61 wrote:

best thing to do is take some 0000 steel wool and soap and water and give the windshield a good scrub.remove unseen grime.  I bought the Duralast wipers.they have aero attachments on them and they work good. I've had the same hopping problem and the wipers solved them.

The airfoil attachments would reduce wiper lift as a function of speed and so reduce/eliminate hop.

At one time you could buy airfoil attachments for wiper arms; I have not seen them in a very long time, though.

Yeah,mine work ok. The weather in vegas is real dusty and shit builds up quick.I dont think a simple wash does much.Once every few months use the steel wool with S&W and the wipers clean better with no hop