1997 Rivera :)

Hey all whats up? Tyler here. Just picked up a 97 Riviera with 168k miles. Supercharged. Got a few problems to sort out. The previous peopel wasn't too smart lol.

Picked it up since my other vehicle quit due to a electronic problem so just needing a way back and forth to work.

Also no clue why they have the supercharger not hooked up. It spins free no noise. The tensioner setup for it is missing. When i ask why it wasn't hooked up she said she didn't even need it or no what a Supercharger was for. Hahaha. So going to get the stuff to test it. Also had the temp sensor unplugged. Power steering fluid was low.



First is the common steering bracket being broke problem. Which is a easy fix just aquiring the parts.

The gas gauge doesn't work.

Next is when you crank it and it's idling there is some vibration from the pass side back of the engine. Rev pass 1.5-2k rpm it's completely gone.

When going about 50 it vibrates bad. Gently tap the brake it's gone.

They have a wire ran by the pass fender to touch to turn the starter over.

168,000 miles?  It used to be, cars were trash and fell apart on their own.  Now the cars are good and it's mostly trashy people trashing them.  

You'll notice a huge difference when you get the supercharger working again.  I drove a Riv that didn't have it working, and it was awful.  When the SC isn't working, it blocks the air coming into the engine, and the power is worse than if the car had no SC at all.  Much worse.

Most likely the supercharger coupler went bad, which makes an awful clattering sound, and the previous owner cut the belt off rather than make what is an easy and inexpensive repair.  

The "bad" news is you'll have to remove the passenger side motor mount to get a new SC belt on.  The passenger side motor mount issue is probably the worst thing about the 8th gen Riviera.  I'm not a mechanic and I've had mine off a few times.  Once you know what you're doing, it isn't too bad, but learning wasn't fun.  

The "worse" news is, taking the passenger side motor mount off is a big enough hassle that you might want to replace everything that can be replaced on the front of the motor while you've got the mount off.  Just make one big job of it and be done.  That means both belts, both tensioner assemblys, an idler pulley that isn't on a tensioner, the water pump and the camshaft position sensor.  And you'll have to drain the radiator fluid to replace the accessory belt tensioner, since the fluid runs through the tensioner.  Also, while you've got all that stuff off, it's much easier to replace the coolant hoses that run to the heater core.  You've got easier access to the engine 02 sensor with all the stuff off the front of the motor, and the coolant hoses removed, but it still might not be possible to get it off without heat.  The best way to heat it is to run the motor - which obviously you can't do at this point.  But perhaps you'll have a one-in-a-million case and the 02 sensor won't have welded itself to the exhaust.

The good news is water pumps for the L67 motor are cheap.  I think I paid $30 for a gates a few months ago (Gates is good).  The tensioners are on the pricey side.  RickW was trying to give away new coolant hoses for the radiator last month, PM him and see if he's still got them.  

Does the fuel gauge work at all?  Most 8th gen Rivs have gauges that read incorrectly due to a flaw in the manufacture of the sending unit.  Fixing it involves getting into the gas tank.  I haven't done mine yet.  My work around is to fill up the gas tank and set the trip computer to zero, then I fill up again around 200 miles.  I'll deal with the problem when I do the fuel pump.  At 168,000, you're probably looking at a new fuel pump too, unless it was done recently.  

If you want to keep this car, look up the sweetprojectcars channel on YouTube for a ton of good videos on cleaning up and fixing cars cheap.  Your car is rough, but it doesn't look unsalvageable.  

One of my wheel trims has a broken front clip too.  It costs $40 to get a few of those clips and fix it right.  I've been superglueing mine back in place.  It usually holds for a couple years.  I may have made myself a bigger problem in the long run though.  Nail polish is pretty good at removing super glue though, and there are special removers that may work even better.

Rockauto.com is your friend for cheap parts.

Thanks for the info. I bought it for the cheap price it had. $500. Runs and drives with title. Always wanted a gtp so this was the next thing to it i could find. Other vehicle has 200k on it so o said to myself if this one last to 200k I've got my money's worth out of it. It def needs to love.

It has dents and bare metal on the back side. Sunroof works and no leaks. Interior is in good condition.

As for the supercharger i honestly don't know what was going on. Because the whole tension setup for it isn't even there.

My gas gauge moves when i turn it on. And figured out when the low fuel light comes on you need to be in a gas station or it's out. I figured it was just a stuck float. But with these having the access hatch I'll address it sooner or later.

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping. zzperformance Or zzperformance online sales something like that was the store. Supposedly it is an OEM tensioner but you never know with eBay until it gets here mines supposed to show up Friday. otherwise you're spending well over a hundred for that sucker. And you can pick up new contact for your fuel pump sending unit for like 30 bucks maybe less if you buy it online. When you see the little piece of tin they give you for thirty bucks you'll feel ripped off but when your fuel gauge works again you get over it. 90% of the time that's what's wrong. you just pull your fuel pump snap It on over the old one and put it back in. just hope your fuel pump retaining ring isn't rusted off like mine was I got a trick for that too if you need it.And if you're not going to have your motor cover on take that rear bracket off then you can easily change your back spark plugs or o2 sensor all that stuff On the back side of the engine from the top you ain't got to crawl underneath good luck

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

As for the supercharger i honestly don't know what was going on.  

I'd bet that was the deal with the previous owner - heard the clacking when the coupler went bad, freaked out and assumed it was a bigger problem than it was, no mechanical aptitude and no interest in finding out what the problem was for themselves.  Could have taken the car to a mechanic who tried to soak them on the repair.  Maybe the mechanic cut the SC belt off for the previous owner and said to themselves "I might as well keep this SC tensioner too, these fools won't know better."  Maybe the mechanic sold it for $12 on eBay

From what I've read on this forum, the SC is fairly bulletproof and should definitely not be failing at 168k.  The coupler however will fail, it's basically a big plastic hockey puck with holes drilled through it.  Over time the holes will oval out and make an awful sound.  To replace it, all you have to do is suck the nasty whale oil out of the SC, unbolt the snout, pull the old coupler out, clean off the gasket surface, slide a new coupler on, put the special, somewhat expensive gasket sealant on, bolt the SC snout on, put more oil in.  

You might also potentially have a bad bearing in the SC pulley, but that's much less likely.  It happened to me though at 94k, so it's not impossible.  

I'd replace the tensioner and the belt and expect to hear the coupler clatter, than do the coupler and you'll probably be fine.

If I were you, I'd slowly work on restoring it. It's a legit classic car now. Not hugely valuable yet, will never be a million dollar Porsche, but getting to be rare for sure. I've seen a few different cars drift in obscurity and treated like their worthless for years, then they're rediscovered and the price skyrockets. IMO the 8th gen Riv is one of the better 90's cars. Anything nicer is usually too complicated and packed full of unobtainable parts. Anything less nice usually wasn't built well or had an awful interior. It wouldn't surprise me if some magazine or YouTube channel picks up on what turtleman is doing and suddenly there's a swell of demand for 8th gen Rivs. Even if you only get your money back, that's a free car for however many years you own it.

Liver lips wrote:

And if you're not going to have your motor cover on take that rear bracket off then you can easily change your back spark plugs or o2 sensor all that stuff On the back side of the engine from the top you ain't got to crawl underneath good luck

How does the bracket come off? Is it hard to put back on?

For some reason my replies arent working.

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully next check I'll get the steering column fixed.

For the supercharger idk what's going on. A older man owned it since 4/2016 and gave it to his grand daughter thsi past November. She had no idea even what it was for.

What I'm thinking is the sound the motor is making now they tried to narrow down that it wasnt she S/C.

The vibration at 50mph is i think the tires.

Other then that it rides super smooth. Hopefully the problems isn't nothing major. Tried to post a YouTube video but the 7 day restriction :/

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

What I'm thinking is the sound the motor is making now they tried to narrow down that it wasnt she S/C.

To do that would only require slipping the SC belt off and pushing it aside. Then you can put it back on. I've done it a couple times trying to track down a squeek.

You might be able to check for a bad coupler by twisting the SC pulley back and forth. If there's any slop, the coupler's bad. I don't know if you can detect it by hand, since I haven't had a bad coupler myself yet. When I had my snout off I looked at the coupler and it appeared to be new, so it's likely mine went bad and was changed before 83K when I bought the car. The coupler is a wear part, they all have to be replaced eventually. I wish I could go back in time and revisit the first Riv I looked at again, the one with the non-functional SC. I didn't know much about cars then either, but in hindsight I bet the coupler had gone bad on that car, the previous owners had no idea why the engine was suddenly making a huge racket and feared the worst, and got rid of an otherwise perfectly good and beautiful car for no good reason at all. I'd like to know if that car had an SC belt on it when I drove it. I'm thinking it didn't.

About the ignition bypass, I had to replace my starter relay a couple years ago. You can read about my adventure changing it here - link Good chance this is your problem too. Unfortunately that little plastic cube is a lot more expensive than it ought to be, but I bit the bullet and did it.

Hopefully the engine sound is just the tensioner itself.

Hopefully soon I'll get the parts to test the supercharger. Surprisingly the interior is still really good. Just a few spots here and there

Can't wait to get all these things straightened out

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

For some reason my replies arent working.

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully next check I'll get the steering column fixed.

For the supercharger idk what's going on. A older man owned it since 4/2016 and gave it to his grand daughter thsi past November. She had no idea even what it was for.

What I'm thinking is the sound the motor is making now they tried to narrow down that it wasnt she S/C.

The vibration at 50mph is i think the tires.

Other then that it rides super smooth. Hopefully the problems isn't nothing major. Tried to post a YouTube video but the 7 day restriction :/

Vibration at 50 MPH is most likely either tires or lower control arm bushings. There is a remote chance it's the inner CV joints worn BUT I still had an original on my car at 370,000 miles, i replaced it for maintenance reasons. Made a slight difference.

Glad to see the interior's not wrecked. Is that a tear in the leather by the shoulder belt guide, or sunlight?

It looks like the wood around your shifter is delaminating. Mine was cracked by the previous owner. Many of us put dash kits in. It's a ton of work but I thought it was worth it. Here are some pics from the install thread







I put a BD Trims kit in my car, but I would not recommend them as they seem to manufacture their kits in a dust factory and almost every piece had dust trapped underneath the clear epoxy layer.

I'd fix the Riv a little at a time and before long you'll have a like new car.

Liver lips wrote:

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping.

I looked but it seems like they are just the tensioner without pulleys. I need the whole set up :/.

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

Liver lips wrote:

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping.

I looked but it seems like they are just the tensioner without pulleys. I need the whole set up :/.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1334971&cc=1022050&jsn=1657

The pullies are not exotic, they run $8 to $16 each on Rockauto.com, for instance https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=961372&cc=1022050&jsn=1666

I do not understand the top bracket on your engine. I wonder if your engine was swapped and I wonder if you have issues with the motor and transmission mounts. Does your VIN begin with 1?

albertj wrote:

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

Liver lips wrote:

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping.

I looked but it seems like they are just the tensioner without pulleys. I need the whole set up :/.

I do not understand the top bracket on your engine.  I wonder if your engine was swapped and I wonder if you have issues with the motor and transmission mounts.  Does your VIN begin with 1?

Oh nice didn't know that about the pullies. Not sure about the top mount. What's the l67 supposed to look like?

Honestly i think it's been swapped and the only thing i think if is the gtp. If you notice the mount by the throttle body there eis a broken upper motor mount bracket there. The rivs don't use upper motor mounts

Hello Tyler. Welcome here.

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

albertj wrote:

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

Liver lips wrote:

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping.

I looked but it seems like they are just the tensioner without pulleys. I need the whole set up :/.

I do not understand the top bracket on your engine.  I wonder if your engine was swapped and I wonder if you have issues with the motor and transmission mounts.  Does your VIN begin with 1?

Oh nice didn't know that about the pullies. Not sure about the top mount. What's the l67 supposed to look like?

Honestly i think it's been swapped and the only thing i think if is the gtp. If you notice the mount by the throttle body there is a broken upper motor mount bracket there. The rivs don't use upper motor mounts

Makes sense. I *think* if you find a donor car you could get the proper mounts. For instance GM still sells the proper lower (drivers side) transmission mounts. I think they are 22201114, 22178776, 22174975. Look them up on line just to see the pictures. Then make sure you have them and if not get the cores from a junkyard (you might have to call an LKQ or Row52.com and have them picked for you) and then you can get new anchor cores for short money. This page has a diagram:

https://www.davisgmcanadaparts.ca/auto-parts/1997/buick/riviera/base-trim/3-8l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-mounting-scat/?part_number=22201114

you might also need to get 22174975 and associated pieces.

Why the engine installer did not move the SC tensioner and belt with the SC I have no clue.

The big hint for me, looking at the pic you posted, is the fuel injection tubing did not look right (wrong color), there was a funny black steel tube bolted to top of the engine, and the spark plug and various other engine wiring is not attached to the motor with standoff clips as they should be. You *can* obviously run without them attached but after a while stuff will fray and loosen causing various gremlins. Those clips and such would be pick and pull items, if you found a Riv or say a early to mid 2000s Park Avenue you'd be able to scavenge the needed parts for those attachments.

The reason I asked if your car's VIN started with 1 - I don't care what the VIN is -- but *IF* I remember right, the cars that started VIN with 1 are supercharged, L67 engine, and have the right PCM computer programmed for the job. The others were K (letter #11 - get it?) standing for the normally-aspirated L36 engine. You need to know which, because this info will help you for troubleshooting. The SC motor with blower disconnected is kind of a dog, it is lower compression on purpose than the NA motor, and might run funny at the limits because it's expecting forced air for combustion, not getting any, and there is only so far the PCM can adjust for that given the mass air flow sensor and MAP data. Unless the PCM was swapped too. You'd need a factory scan tool to find out, or you'd need to go behind the glove compartment and pull the PCM and read the factory or rebuilder's tag.

It will be interesting to see how you get all this sorted.

My guess is whoever did the engine swap possibly didn't, or was told not to, care, but most likely could not obtain the parts needed to fit the time or schedule or budget available. The needed parts and cores can be obtained from junkyards and should bolt onto pretty much whatever L engine and 4T transmission. I say "should" because on the one hand GM doesn't put a lot of variation into hard parts, but in some cases you'd find an unused hole that's already threaded but it might be that you'd find a boss that needed to be drilled and tapped to accept a bolt. Depending on where that is, might be impractical. You'll have to look and use your judgement to decide what to so. You'll also need to buy a (genuine) factory service manual.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

albertj wrote:

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

Liver lips wrote:

Hey I just had to pick up a supercharger tensioner I just got one on eBay for 12 bucks there was only like two left$8 shipping.

I looked but it seems like they are just the tensioner without pulleys. I need the whole set up :/.

I do not understand the top bracket on your engine.  I wonder if your engine was swapped and I wonder if you have issues with the motor and transmission mounts.  Does your VIN begin with 1?

Oh nice didn't know that about the pullies. Not sure about the top mount. What's the l67 supposed to look like?

Honestly i think it's been swapped and the only thing i think if is the gtp. If you notice the mount by the throttle body there is a broken upper motor mount bracket there. The rivs don't use upper motor mounts

Makes sense.  I *think* if you find a donor car you could get the proper mounts.  For instance GM still sells the proper lower (drivers side) transmission mounts.  I think they are 22201114, 22178776, 22174975.  Look them up on line just to see the pictures.  Then make sure you have them and if not get the cores from a junkyard (you might have to call an LKQ or Row52.com and have them picked for you) and then you can get new anchor cores for short money.  This page has a diagram:



you might also need to get 22174975 and associated pieces.

Why the engine installer did not move the SC tensioner and belt with the SC I have no clue.  

The big hint for me, looking at the pic you posted,  is the fuel injection tubing did not look right (wrong color), there was a funny black steel tube bolted to top of the engine, and the spark plug and various other engine wiring is not attached to the motor with standoff clips as they should be.  You *can* obviously run without them attached but after a while stuff will fray and loosen causing various gremlins.   Those clips and such would be pick and pull items, if you found a Riv or say a early to mid 2000s Park Avenue you'd be able to scavenge the needed parts for those attachments.  

The reason I asked if your car's VIN started with 1 - I don't care what the VIN is -- but *IF* I remember right, the cars that started VIN with 1 are supercharged, L67 engine,  and have the right PCM computer programmed for the job.  The others were K (letter #11 - get it?) standing for the normally-aspirated L36 engine. You need to know which, because this info will help you for troubleshooting. The SC motor with blower disconnected is kind of a dog, it is lower compression on purpose than the NA motor, and might run funny at the limits because it's expecting forced air for combustion, not getting any, and there is only so far the PCM can adjust for that given the mass air flow sensor and MAP data.  Unless the PCM was swapped too.  You'd need a factory scan tool to find out, or you'd need to go behind the glove compartment and pull the PCM and read the factory or rebuilder's tag.

It will be interesting to see how you get all this sorted.

My guess is whoever did the engine swap possibly didn't, or was told not to, care, but most likely could not obtain the parts needed to fit the time or schedule or budget available.  The needed parts and cores can be obtained from junkyards and should bolt onto pretty much whatever L engine and 4T transmission.  I say "should" because on the one hand GM doesn't put a lot of variation into hard parts, but in some cases you'd find an unused hole that's already threaded but it might be that you'd find a boss that needed to be drilled and tapped to accept a bolt. Depending on where that is, might be impractical.  You'll have to look and use your judgement to decide what to so.  You'll also need to buy a (genuine) factory service manual.

Albertj

The vin is 1 and the 8th? Is V from what i recall that's the l67. I'm so curious to to see what's going on with this thing.

Anyone have a pic of the engine bay with the cover off?

I've also noticed that the alternator seems off it has a mounting hole at the top. Hopefully on my off day I'll dig in more

The engine number (stamped on block) will start with V I guess. My 8th position is 1.

Since your VIN is 1 you probably won't have any PCM issues unless something else is wrong.

Now it would be best if you're near someone with a straight 97 SC Riv to park side by side with hoods open and check the differences. Even better if you had 2 pairs of ramps, you could run them up quickly and slip under to have a look see at those transmission mounts.

The engine compartment in this 97 Riv on Car Domain looks pretty straight, for instance, although I bet he's having phantom problems with the vacuum manifold (it's original and at a certain age they leak at the fittings) and I have no idea what that white string is that's ziptied to the fuel lines.

http://www.cardomain.com/member/superbuick87/

Here is another - a 98 this time - but you can more clearly see how the accessory and supercharger belts run

http://www.cardomain.com/ridepost/1294291/1998-buick-riviera/

And another, a 96 before and after owner modifications

http://www.cardomain.com/member/tonys96riv/

Hope the pics help.

You may find the last 7 or so digits of the VIN *on the engine* on the starter bolt mount/boss. See if they match the dash plate.

Albertj

Meh. The whole time i was looking over the car and test driving it she kept saying if i had any problems to get her mechanic to work on it. He is good.

So think i figured out what the funky brace is for. Also the silver under the air box was unplugged as was the 2 plugs on the transmission where the linkage is.

Plugged all them up and it crank right up. No sure what in the hell is going on.
I'm getting this is what's causing my vibrating idle.

I don't know how good a mechanic is if he's got a brace bolted to the supercharger where the plastic cover attaches to. I'll go get a pic of mine and show you what shoulld be going on there, although you may already know. I'm sure that spot on the SC isn't supposed to have any mechanical force going into it.

That zip tie deal - looks like it is holding on one of the heater core hose quick connects? I can see the quick connect isn't bolted into place, but I don't see where the bolt hole is. Could be a GTP difference, different style belt tensioner I mean. I'll go get a pic of that too.

Yea idk. I'm just wondering why they used that brace for the alternator mount. That's alot of force. And why these is no alternator bracket.

xxlifesucksxxx wrote:

Yea idk. I'm just wondering why they used that brace for the alternator mount. That's alot of force. And why these is no alternator bracket.

Your accessory tensioner is definitely different.  Check the tensioner gauge and see how much life is left in it -



My new accessory tensioner is sitting in the middle of the close ticks.  There's an illustration in the FSM that shows what all the ticks mean, but for the life of me I can't find it.  The FSM can be a nightmare to work with, as big as it is you can see the writers were hard pressed for space because the cars are so complicated.  Information you need is spread out all over the place and it's not easy or to find.  Or in this case, impossible to find, because I can't find the illustration I'm looking for.

I think the tick on the bottom is the completely played out position, at which point the belt doesn't have enough tension on it to do anything.  Or so the manual says, but my old tensioner was bottomed out and things still worked.

You're making progress. Thanks for the pics Jack. They are **really** clear.

Tyler I have no comment on your PO's mechanic, give him credit that he did get as far as he did, my guess is he was starved for cash or time. You should, but there is not a guarantee that you can, be able to bolt up the proper accessories to the engine and get things straight. That tensioner/alternator bracket is one such accessory (well, accessory mount). Word to the wise -- check the engine and transmission mounts. I suspect the one of the lower mount is missing.

Hey Jack, when your old tensioner bottomed out things would still work up until you had a high enough electrical load to demand too much from the alternator, in which case the belt would slip around the alternator pulley. If the car is otherwise well maintained that probably would not happen.

I haven't had much of an electrical load on the alternator in a while, that may explain it.