CV axle seal

Does anyone know if the cv axle output seal us the same part for the drivers side and the passenger side? I'm replacing the drivers side axle and I only see a seal listed for the passenger side at local parts houses. Thanks

See "page 61" on this guide and ask your parts guy to find the cross reference, if any, for the line of seals carried there.  

https://www.parker.com/literature/Seal%20Aftermarket%20Products%20Division/SAP%20CATALOG%20PDF/440-T4%20_%204T60E%20_%204T65E.pdf

...or this

https://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/4T60E_4T60E_Transmission_left_side_axle_seal_p/370-000037402.htm

The pass side seal for the 4T60 and 4T65 are same (8666007), and thus used across a bunch of cars.  I bet the reason the parts dealer shows their availability is they fit other applications as well. The seals for the driver side of 4T60 (8646637) and 4T65 (24204330) differ.  Your parts person may be able to get one for you if you have the number.  They probably have either Parker or National seals.

Or just ask at a GM dealer using the numbers in the parentheses as a starting point... You might want to print the applicable pages from the Parker Hanafin .pdf and highlight what you are looking for, and don't wig out if the #s have changed. GM will use different numbers for the same part but for made by different supplier.

Does this seal not come with a new axle, I am about to do both of my axles? Also, would a bad axle make a binding or vibrate when turning the wheel in reverse or is it a steering issue?

You gave to buy the seal separately. Not sure about the vibration issue

Rock auto and Amazon has the left side, right side goes to a Timkin number. Ty for this post, I am going to have them for my install.

Cliff96 wrote:

You gave to buy the seal separately. Not sure about the vibration issue

Seals may not need replaced with each axle replacement. When I last had my transmission serviced the shop had to drop it, to fix what turned out not to be a valve body issue. The tech (shop owner) mentioned that my seals were banged up and did I have any idea how they got that way. I told him that the last time they dropped the transmission (years ago, to replace torque converter) they bent the seals (my guess was being ham handed hammering in the axles) - his tech (who is still there) pointed that out to me , and also pointed out that although damaged they were not leaking. By the time we got to the latest transmission issue they dripped just a little - not even a trace on the garage floor but a slow leak in motion apparently. I had added fluid twice over the several years.

He shook his head and told me it would be an extra day delay to get the seals.

And so it goes.

Albertj

You had him speechless lol. For $15 it is good insurance for me to have them on hand.

Any thoughts on this?
Would a bad axle make a binding or vibrate when turning the wheel in reverse or is it a steering issue?

carguy8888 wrote:

You had him speechless lol. For $15 it is good insurance for me to have them on hand.

Any thoughts on this?
Would a bad axle make a binding or vibrate when turning the wheel in reverse or is it a steering issue?

I have no idea. I'd have to see it, put it on a lift in Neutral with the column unlocked, just off the ground with the window down, and spin/steer the front wheels. Use a long bar to see if the front control arm bushings are wack. Those are really really hard to diagnose b/c the way they are designed you can not see it when they have weakened or failed. It's almost worth replacing them every 100 thou miles or so just not to have to think about them, if you DIY the swap. Or just replace them when you replace struts.

I'm still chasing the P0171 code. I notice that the "soft code" ie the traction control light, goes off when I accelerate briskly. That means the lean condition goes away. Anyone have an idea of what that might be? Thanks

Vacuum leak

Cliff96 wrote:

I'm still chasing the P0171 code. I notice that the "soft code" ie the traction control light, goes off when I accelerate briskly. That means the lean condition goes away. Anyone have an idea of what that might be? Thanks

If your 'traction off' light goes off when you accelerate briskly there's  a loose wire between one or more wheel sensors and the ABS computer, or a flaky sensor.  Easiest to find with a Tech II because it will read the sensors one by each.

P0171--Specifically what's happening is the first oxygen sensor is not detecting enough oxygen in the exhaust.  

Possible causes:

Intake air leaks (brake booster, vacuum hoses/connections)
Faulty front heated oxygen sensor (got fouled somehow, is old, chafed wires, or is defective)
Faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor (dirty or internal electronic failure usually)
Ignition misfiring (appears with P30x)
Faulty fuel injectors (gummy / dirty)
Exhaust gas leaks (cracked exhaust manifold, on our cars typically the front manifold)
Incorrect fuel pressure (bad pressure regulator)
Incorrect Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) hose connection is a cause too, but there's no such hose on the SC cars

This is one of those cases requiring old-school troubleshooting.

Don't be surprised to find multiple causes at the same time (cracked manifold and faulty MAF for instance)

Albert, wouldn't too much oxygen in the exhaust be Lean? Not enough oxygen would be rich.

Here's the thing though: after awhile the traction control light stays on even when I accelerate. Then I check for codes and the only code is P0171. When i clear the code the traction control light goes out for awhile. That's what makes me believe that the t/c light is also a trouble code warning.

Looks like I have a lot more trouble shooting to do

Cliff96 wrote:

Here's the thing though: after awhile the traction control light stays on even when I accelerate. Then I check for codes and the only code is P0171. When i clear the code the traction control light goes out for awhile. That's what makes me believe that the t/c light is also a trouble code warning.

You would benefit from having the factory service manual set, which explains the "how" as regards any interrelated systems.  It will explain to you better than I can that the P0171 and the Trac Control Off light are not related, and contains all the codes (powertrain, abs, etc) with descriptions and troubleshooting.

For now, I'll try to explain... the traction control (TC) light comes on when a malfunction that would vex the TC is detected, which turns off the traction control.  Certain acceleration/deceleration may trigger it with nothing else wrong, but that is infrequent.  Underinflated tires may trigger it depending on how you drive. Bad wheel sensors, bad connectors, a wire broken inside a crimp terminal or inside insulation can trigger it. I have had bad wheel sensors (with good quality wheel bearings it's the &^#%&@#%^ sensors that fail after +/- 100K miles, not the bearings) and have had to replace a connector after a ham handed mechanic broke the retainer tab on one of mine, causing the TC light to come on intermittently. For instance, in the rain sometimes. I have heard of flaky TC Off switches being the cause of intermittent TC Off.

If your Service Engine Soon light is off but you're getting a P0171, then your Service Engine Soon light bulb probably has been removed or has burned out (unlikely).  That may just mean the PO had the recurring P0171, could not find it, traded or sold the car and the seller then removed the bulb.  I think (not sure) you need a GM Tech I or Tech II scan tool to read the 96 Riv's ABS codes.  And I think also you need to pull the instrument cluster (tedious and requires ability to work with the doors open, but not difficult) and put a bulb in for the SES indicator.

I've got the factory service manuals, that's one of the first things I bought. I have not completely figured out how to find the info I need in them though. What I could use is a tech scanner but that's out of my budget right now. I'll take my time and find the problem. I will be taking the radio out soon that the p.o. put in. The boom box speakers he had in have all been disconnected anyway and I need to check to make sure he didn't mess up any wiring in there. He had used extension cord wiring for speaker wire. I'll check the ses bulb then. I appreciate all the advice. Thanks

Cliff96 wrote:

I've got the factory service manuals, that's one of the first things I bought. I have not completely figured out how to find the info I need in them though. What I could use is a tech scanner but that's out of my budget right now. I'll take my time and find the problem. I will be taking the radio out soon that the p.o. put in. The boom box speakers he had in have all been disconnected anyway and I need to check to make sure he didn't mess up any wiring in there. He had used extension cord wiring for speaker wire. I'll check the ses bulb then. I appreciate all the advice. Thanks

Ah!  I can help you with the manual thing.  

For me, the easiest most straightforward  thing is usually to look up stuff using the *index* as the table of contents is entertaining but not all that useful except to point out which book has which content.

What I do is, when I have a problem I'll pick up any manual (I have a '98) and look in the table of contents to find the system of concern - the lighting, or engine cooling, or whatever.  The T of C is the same in all the books.  That basically tells me what book I need to look at, but using just that to find *useful content* is a hassle... so I then, having identified which book I need, get that book and turn right to the *index* in the back. The index is the same across the books, too, but if I look at the TOC first odds are I will have the right book in hand.  

If the content I am looking for ends up being in a different book, I just use the table of contents again to figure out which one.   I think That's Okay because I saved a bunch of time not having to skim through a bunch of stuff.  

It surprises me a little what is actually *in* the manual.  For instance, how to replace the radio dial bulbs is *not* in the manual.  How to replace the fuel pump without draining the gas tank *is* in the manual.  

As for scanners, we as a group are behind on the low-price end.  I use a cheap Bluetooth dongle and Torque Lite on my cell phone, for now.  I used to use obd-2 with a serial dongle, on my laptop.  The guy who created that (Alex Peper) now offers an Android app for $12.00 that supposedly reads OBD-II, ABS and body codes, through the ELM-327 (read, "cheapie like I have") type of dongle. Turns out, however, it won't read the ABS codes on *our* cars...

Overall - for code reading and some other purposes (the ELM-327 reads real time data like speed, temperature, vacuum, etc) - thinking about it, a low priced update might be all you need. As for me I will probably try Alex's software.  

Albertj

Thanks for the tips. I was researching causes of the lean code yesterday and came across one I had never thought of. It suggested checking for corrosion under the rubber boots of the battery cables. Apparently if the corrosion is bad enough it interferes with the voltage output which causes an abnormally low idle and a lean condition. It also said the check the cable connections at the starter and of course the grounds

The battery is under the rear seat, so corrosion of the terminals is non existent. I just looked at my battery about a month ago, the terminals looked new. At the starter is another story, but I have never replaced my cables. I would think you would encounter won't crank problems with bad cable connections, before it would cause any other symptoms.

Yeah you would think so. My car has been messed with quite a bit though and been thru some abuse. I've found things loose and disconnected. The alternator was burned out by the big power draw the p.o. had put on it. I'm still checking things

LARRY70GS wrote:

Albert, wouldn't too much oxygen in the exhaust be Lean?  Not enough oxygen would be rich.

Too much air in the intake as a ratio of air to fuel is lean.

The sensor detects unburned oxygen in the exhaust. The PCM interprets that data to confirm that the combustion is in normal limits. When the P0171 code sets, the control module is already adding more fuel than normal to try to hit the proper air/fuel mixture but in spite of that the oxygen sensors are detecting too little oxygen in the exhaust (running "lean").

For those of you who don't know the technical part: The reason this works at all is that gasoline internal combustion engines work best when they maintain about 1 part fuel to 14.7 parts air in the intake mixture. The PCM is programmed to interpret the oxygen sensor readings to deduce if there is enough fuel in the mixture. When the fuel adjustments become too large, [that is, the PCM thinks that in spite of adding the max fuel it still detects a "lean" condition] a fault code is set. Again, typically 'too large' means too little unburned oxygen in the exhaust, which would be running "lean" in spite of the PCM already having about maxed out how much fuel to inject into the mixture.

The PCM can be fooled by intake manifold gasket leaks, intake manifold cracks that leak, and exhaust manifold cracks (which tend to suck air because of the physics of pressure waves in the manifold and exhaust tubes. An exhaust pulse puffs exhaust out of such cracks, but then behind that puff the crack will suck, not blow, gases. If it is sucking gases, it's typically sucking plain air from the engine compartment. Net effect is more unburned oxygen in the exhaust, as the next puff (from a different cylinder) pushes the sucked air as a pulse through the exhaust. If the crack is big enough or located right (it does not take much) then the PCM will complain (set a code) after hitting the max limit of fuel enrichment (fuel trim) programmed into it to permit.