Possible to rebuild/restore one totally?

I have a 96 Riviera, that I just adore. I mean, I LOVE this car. I am the original owner, and even now that it's "old", I don't see anything else I want as much as I want this car. It's got 127K miles on it. I've had to replace the motor on the drivers side window, redo the brakes, and put in a new starter. Other than that, nothing but normal maintenance.

I started shopping for a replacement, and don't like anything I've driven. So I got to wondering whether if it's possible to just replace things as needed, til I have a totally redone car? Sort of like what they did to the $6million man on tv?

Haven't a clue as to how I'd do this. I assume the engine will go at some point, and there are some issues with the wiring (the dealer messed it up when they replaced the starter last year). Where would I start? What would it take to just make it new again? New engine? Transmission? Wiring? More? What would it cost? Who does this kind of thing?

Thanks in advance for any help on this. Like I said, I LOVE this car. If I can rebuild it and drive it another 5 or 10 years, it will be suit me better than anything I can find on the market today (let alone what I can afford! )

Welcome! Your appreciation for the Riviera is completely understood. It's a great car that is hard to beat for the price. It's also beautiful and fun to drive. Why not keep driving it, right? To do what you're suggesting depends on a few things. First, how bad off is the car? From your description, it doesn't seem that bad. 127k miles really isn't that many, and the repairs you've made aren't too severe. I'd say if you keep fixing things, you should be okay up to 200k miles or more. I plan to. Also, how do you drive the car? If you race or drive aggressively, the car will not last as long as if you just cruise the freeway. In-town driving can also age the car prematurely, and letting the car sit is one of the worst things you can do.

Understand the car will never be new again, but it can be kept pretty close. The key is extreme maintenance. If something is broken, get it fixed before it affects something else. Like something as simple as a broken stabilizer bar link (undetectable to most) could cause suspension parts to wear out faster on that side of the car, which could cause wear to tires, brakes, CV joints, etc. So if you catch something small ahead of time, you save repairs down the road. The way I do this is a yearly inspection from a trusted mechanic. I also spend a lot of time crawling around under the car and under the hood. Listen for sounds that aren't normal, and either post in our forums or ask a mechanic for a diagnosis. Could mean saving you money in the long run. And you don't always have to fix with brand new dealer parts. A used transmission, for example, is a common item that can be had for a fraction of the retail price.

Cleaning is a good habit to get into if you aren't already. Keeping the paint free of dirt and salt is part of regular maintenance. Cleaning parts under the hood and under the car is a good idea occasionally, and can sometimes show problems before they get serious. Many here discover leaky hoses or cracking belts just looking around, but I understand not everyone likes getting hands dirty under the hood. Maybe an inspection or detailing service is the preferred solution in this case.

Regular maintenance is so important with any car. Oil & filter changes every 3-5k miles, transmission fluid changes every 50k miles, fresh air filter, etc. But there are some areas that often go overlooked. If you have a supercharger, have the SC oil changed every 25k. Flush the coolant every 5 years. Be sure to use premium fuel in a supercharged engine, and add fuel injector cleaner every 5k miles or so. Clean the MAF sensor once in a while. Change the fuel filter if it hasn't been. Plugs should be checked, and ignition wires replaced at 100k miles. Shocks and struts are probably due at 120k+ miles. Lubricate seals and rubber goods with silicone spray. If you have chrome wheels, have them checked for leaks and repaired. If you keep everything in check, the engine should last longer than the car, and the transmission for a long time. There's no reason why you can't keep the car in good condition if you car enough. After 4 years, I'm close to paying mine off soon, and at 140k miles, I too plan to keep mine 5-10 more years!

I'm surprised Aaron forgot to mention to change your plastic idler pulleys, if they haven't been done already. He got stranded more than once by worn out pulleys.

Let's see/hear what kind of shape your car is in. IMO age/mileage is only important for people who aren't willing to take care of their car. If you're willing to get educated your car can last and last and last.

Let's have a look at her and see what needs to be done!

Thanks so much for the replies! I am really grateful for the input.

Aaron, you know so much more about cars than I do, that I will simply print your reply and take it to my mechanic. I am just shy of "dumb as a rock" about cars. All I know is that for years, my car was just transportation.... as long as it got me from point A to point B, I did not care. I drove Chevies, an older Corvette, a Mercedes, and really none of them were that much different than when I rented a car on a business trip-- if it got me there, and the color was not offensive, I was fine with it.

Then one day I saw an ad in a magazine, and it was the Riviera. The next day I went to the dealer to price it. The salesman would not price it to me since I did not have a man with me GRRRRR Ended up leasing one but when the lease was up there was no way I was giving it up. So I bought it and have had it since. No loan, it's all paid for.

At 65K miles, I debated whether it was worth it to ship across country when I moved.... I had always heard cars were "used up" well before 100K miles. At about 85K miles I had it repainted (not at Maaco for $200 but an expensive $4K paintjob where they remove every bit of trim and chrome and do it right). People said I was a lunatic, since now the paint was worth more than the car. But little Blackie just kept right on running, never giving me a minute of trouble. I figured I'd just drive it till it died.

Ever since about 65K miles, the traction control has been broken. I was quoted $800 to fix it and was advised it wasn't worth it on a car that was not going to last much longer. So it's messed up to this day. Around 80K the CD player got hosed up, but the radio works. Never replaced it since I was just driving it til it died, which should be any time now. The brakes needed to be replaced a couple years ago, so I did it.

Last year, my window quit rolling up and that set me back $600. Then the starter died, on a trip, which caused much hassles, a rental car, plus big bills and a curse on the shop in Amarillo TX. AND, they said there was a fried wire inside, and wanted another $1000 to figure out what was wrong but I did not let them do that. Since that time, my lights don't automatically come on at night, I have to pull the knob manually. And there was a short time when the alarm would just turn itself on in the middle of the night.... but now the horn does not work at all. (If someone makes me mad I just yell, since I have no horn). I figure all of that is related to the fried wire, plus whatever the dealer did out of revenge when I would not let them continue. I figured I'd be lucky to not need to replace the car by New Years. But, here it is August, and we're still driving.

The knob on the radio busted off one day, so I just use the volume control on the steering wheel. Oh, and the seat adjustment control panel on the passenger side is sort of falling out of it's hole-- but still operates. There is one tiny hole in the leather seat where the neighbors dog jumped in. But that's the extent of it. This car has never been wrecked. I take it in for oil changes every 3000-3500 miles, and he checks other stuff, and it needs filters or whatever, I do it but I just take the guys word for it.

So bottom line? The car looks good. I have a lifetime warranty on the paint job-- but I don't think it covers things like other car doors hitting it at a restaurant, and there are a few of those. The interior is also very presentable. My "fix it list" as of right now would be:

1. replace CD/radio
2. figure out the wiring-- since the horn and the lights are not working properly.
3. fix the traction control.
4. put 4 matching tires on it (since we assumed it was on it's last legs, we just put one tire on at a time)

But I assume at some point, I would need a whole new motor, and I'm not sure what else. Truth be told, I could not even make a list of what else there IS on a car. So I like Aaron's suggestion to have someone really check it over and clean the engine,.etc. I suppose my regular mechanic could do that?

Any idea what a new motor would cost? Or what kind of $$$ I'd be looking at to really do this? I am willing to put some money in it, and would RATHER spend money to keep this car than to buy something else-- but don't want to start down this road if I can't really afford it.

Do I need a Riviera specialist? Will any old Buick dealer do? Or do I just need an honest mechanic?

Thanks for being patient with so many questions!

Oh, I don't race this, I just drive it around as my transportation. I might be a little heavier on the gas than the proverbial "little old lady" but I'm not using it for autocross or anything like that. After last year's fiasco, I am afraid to take it on a road trip, but will probably do that next month anyway....

Miss Beth,
What city do do you live? Maybe one our board members lives near you and can recommend a good mechanic...

Miss Beth, I believe you have done a lot of worrying about nothing and been taken for a ride by a few crooked mechanics on top of that.

It's not hard to replace the stereo unit. Email Ed Morad and find out how much he wants for a used one (tell him you've got a 96):

GTPED@msn.com (or) Ed@MoradPartsCompany.com

Here are instructions for removing the dash and replacing the stereo:

Link

The wiring is trickier and will likely take a mechanic. Let us know where you're at, and like 97Riv-Jon said maybe one of us will know one in your area.

Might as well have this done at the same time as replacing the stereo head, since the dash will be apart.

IIRC the traction control is an $800 job. Your car could have another 100,000 miles on it with this motor, and then you can have the motor rebuilt/replaced. Whether it's worth it to you to fix is your call.

Since you're not looking for hi performance tires I'm guessing less than $500 for the tires and mount job. $500 is how much it cost to put tires on my mother's truck, and those are considerably bigger than what's on your Riv.

If your curious about the cost of a used motor/tranny combo, ask Ed Morad what he's got. I'm not sure but I think around $3000, maybe less? The install is probably another grand.

Your regular mechanic can check over the car as Aaron suggested. Just make sure you don't get a crook this time.

Your seats can be re-upholstered if they need it. It's possible that an upholstery guy can repair the doggie damage for not too much. I've got a book on car upholstery work. The most difficult part is getting access to a heavy enough sewing machine. Other than that it's basically like making clothes from patterns.

Any good mechanic should be able to work on the Riv. It's put together from common GM parts. The motor is found in many different GM vehicles. By the way, you never said whether your car is supercharged or not.

I think Aaron wrote out a list of basic Riviera maintenance for our new users. I don't know where it is though, maybe someone can link to it? There are probably a lot of little things you need to have done, like changing the fuel filter and pcv valve. Many of these things you could do yourself, if you had the interest. It may be daunting at first, but, you know that horrible feeling of not knowing what's going on with your car, and whether it's going to break down on you or not, and how badly is the mechanic going to take advantage of you? Once you understand your car, that all goes away. In my opinion it's worth it to trade the paranoia for control.

BTW, do you wanna know how bad you got ripped off on the window motor repair? I priced the motor on rockauto.com - the very most expensive option for that part is $138.00. That's the motor/regulator combo. You can get the motor alone for $36. But wait, it gets worse! Most likely your motor wasn't burned out at all, but you had dirt built up iin the switch. The mechanic might not have done anything more than remove the inner door panel (easy!) and cleaned the contacts on the switch. $600 for 15/30 minutes of easy work is a good deal - for a crooked mechanic!

What else - you mentioned the power seat control pod is hanging loose? Mine was too when I got it. There are a couple tabs on the bottom of the plastic cover that are broken. Instead of trying to find another plastic cover, here's what you do. Stick the switch back up into the seat. There's a couple notchy things at the top that need to catch on a tab thing inside the seat - this isn't hard to do. Now, you've got some screws at the bottom (which used to go into the broken plastic tabs). Leave them partially unscrewed out - they will hold the switch in just fine like this, and it's not visible unless you get down on your knees to look at it.

I can take a pic of mine tomorrow if you need it, but it's simple to figure out.

One final word on maintaining your old car vs. buying a new one - IMO , this is a bad time to be buying a new car. In 2010 the Chevy Volt will come out, which is an electric car with a 40 mile electric-only range, and a small gas generator which extends the range of the car to 750 miles. IIRC the overall gas mileage of this car is something like 150 mpg, BUT, if you're daily commute is less than 40 miles then you can plug it in each night and not burn any gas.

This "series hybrid" drivetrain (not to be confused with the Toyota Prius's inferior "parallel hybrid" drivetrain) will be applied to other car models in following years.

I would advise maintaining the Riviera until a series hybrid car comes out that you want. Regular gas engine cars are going to be obsolete - you don't want to be making payments on a 20-30 mpg car when there are 100-150 mpg cars out there. I think there could be a lot of ignorant new car buyers out there right now who are going to lose bad on the trade-in value of their vehicles 5-10 years down the line.

Number 1 (ebay $20 for factory radio) and Number 4 ($500) are easy fixes. Compare spending 25 to $30,000 dollars for a new car...how much can you fix your riv up with $25000?! Sounds like it would be restored to me (completely restored for closer to $10K). Not to mention the money you're going to loose on a new car as soon as you drive it off the lot! Get a new mechanic and keep the riv.

Jon, I live about an hour North of Dallas near Denton. Got a recommendation for me?

thanks!

You won't need a new engine for a long time, don't even concern yourself with that.

Also, stay away from dealerships when it comes to repairs for your car. You can get the same or better quality repairs from a good private mechanic.

Miss Beth wrote:

Jon, I live about an hour North of Dallas near Denton. Got a recommendation for me?

thanks!

I just moved here so I could use a recommend also...lol
You may want to go to this,,,,I will be there. There will be some VERY knowledeable folks there!

Quote :

3rd Saturday Cruise Night
sponsored by the Lone Star Performance Buick Club.
Link http://www.lspbc.org/index1.html
Car Shows April - Oct. 3rd Saturday of each month.

Our 3rd Sat car show this weekend is now at Vista Ridge in the NW quadrant of the intersection of IH 35E and FR 3040 (Roundgrove Rd.) in Lewisville at approx. 5 PM - 9 PM.

This location, sponsored by PRIZM Partners Commercial Real Estate Services, through their Property Manager Lisa Birdsong, offers us a well lit spacious setting, security guard comfort, centralized accessibility and the company of some 36 tenants that include a movie theater and some 9 food and beverage sources situated in that NW quadrant.

As in the past, Individuals and Car Club Groups are always invited and welcomed and we are now able to do special positioning for car club groups that may want to set up in semi circular format and/or other unique display arrangements to highlight their club's theme and members vehicles.

Come join us and share in our excitement of this new and exciting location!

Vista Ridge Village Tenants:
Barnes & Noble Michael’s Office Max Linens N Things Sports Authority JoAnn’s Fabrics Marshall’s Old Navy CompUSA Casual Male GameStop The Men’s Wearhouse Denny’s Restaurant FedEx/Kinko’s Barbeques Galore Mattress Firm Catherine’s Plus Sizes Nail Essential J Ellis Apt Locators Omaha Steaks T-Mobile Wolf Camera & Video Panda Express Firehouse Subs Dot’s Fashions M-Ports Dollar Tree Hemisphere Cinemark Theater Payless Shoe Source Outback Steakhouse Cantina Laredo Applebee’s Chick-fil-A McDonald’s Wendy’s

Registration still just $10.00
.2007 Car Show Flyer
Link http://www.lspbc.org/images/Car%20Show%20Flyers/2007%20LSPBC%20Car%20Show%20Flyer-2.pdf

AND...You can join:
Riviera Owners Association
DFW/NORTH TEXAS REGION
Jayson Pruitt, ROA # 3412
2902 Echo Ct.,
Carrollton, TX 75007
home (972) 242-7761 , cell (214) 478-2649
JHP@airmail.net

Jayson Pruitt may be able to give you a lead on a mechanic.

.

Jack, thank you, you are a gold mine of information!

I have emailed Ed about the replacement radio, and also found one last night on ebay that I have a bid in on. So one way or the other, I bet I can resolve this. It makes good sense to have them do the wiring and the stereo at one time, since it will be all taken apart anyway.

I am not sure whether my regular mechanic can do the wiring or not-- its a little shop in the country, and, he is the one who fixed the window I double checked and it was $535 (which probably included an oil change) not $600 but that still sounds high based on what you have explained. While I was checking my records, I also has $789 for a 100K servicing last year (which would have been at about 115K miles) He has a computer program that pulls up what needs to be done, I know there were some juices and filters replaced, but not really sure what was involved.

I think I should go have them print out the service records for me, so I have the details on what all has been done. That will also give me the details on the window motor vs labor... and help me figure out what to do next, and whether this is really a good guy after all.

The traction control should probably be fixed, because having the damned light on all the time just annoys me. I really am not sure I need traction control, but if there are a couple of icy drives, it's probably worth it. Well and there are those very rare occasions where I drive across the yard or a horse pasture and it might be muddy or something. It's not going to be on the priority list because the reality is that it hardly seems worth $800 to have the light not be annoying me. I tried to get the mechanic to just disconnect the light, but he could not figure a way to do so.

Tires I can do. I think it will be less than $500 based on what it costs for the dually (my other vehicle).

I don't need to reupholster the seats, the tear is tiny. I can probably get one of those vynal repair kits and patch it just fine.

I tend to think my Riv is supercharged, but not sure. I will check the owners manual, I suppose it will say so if it is.

If anyone can find Aaron's list of basic maintenance, I'd love a link to it. I probably will NOT learn to do my own, but would like to be more knowledgeable in self defense. I like the idea of knowledge and control, but I've pretty well at capacity for do-it-yourself stuff at this stage in my life.

Thanks for the answer on the power seat control pod, I can do that!! I have it pretty well balanced in there for now. I have a friend who always manages to break something when she rides in the car.... that was one day, another time she knocked the red light on the inside door panel out into the road and stepped on it..... on her best day she just muddies up the floor mats.

I had not even considered the hybrids making our gas engine cars obsolete. I was looking at used cars (I hate taking the depreciation on a new one) and then wondered if the $10-12K I would use on top of trading in my beloved car, would be better spent maintaining the Riviera. You have confirmed that this is the way I want to go for now. When I got this Riviera, I did not even know they were limited editions.... so imagine my shock and dismay when I realized mine was getting old and I could not get a new one! So I just kept driving it. Honestly, with 127K miles on it, it still drives great. And I love the way it looks. I have the black one, with the tan/taupe leather interior. It's exactly what I want, and really, every other car just pales in comparison. The only other vehicle I really like is a big Ford 350 or 450 with the King Ranch interior. After that, the rest of them all might as well be Hyundais or Saturns for all I care.

So, who can a good mechanic to recommend near Denton TX? In case I'm not so sure my regular guy should do this work?




]

Well Jon, if you want a mechanic who can fix your window for $535, I've got a guy for you

OK, now these performance Buick get togethers.... aren't those for people who race their Rivieras or something like that? I mean, mine is just standard, came from the dealer just like it is. It's not a race car, or souped up.... I don't want the other cars to laugh at mine....

Maybe YOU should go and find out the good mechanics and then tell me?

No...Not just "for people who race their Rivieras".
For people who love Buicks!
They will be able to tell you in a heartbeat just about anything you want to know. Might even find someone there willing to work on your car for much less than what you've been paying...lol

I'll meet you there and hook you up.

Oh yeah...NIX on your mechanic...

Quote :

$789 for a 100K servicing last year

I've done almost all the basic maintenance on my car (whether it needed it or not, just so I know where it's at since I bought it used) and I don't think it was anywhere near $789 worth. If you've got the supercharged engine, than the belts are indeed a pain to replace, but not $789 worth of pain. I'd avoid this mechanic like the plague. The only way I can see that price is if he did the shocks and struts too. The easy way to check this is to press down on each corner of your car, and if it bounces more than once when you let go, you need new shocks and/or struts.

Look on the back of your trunk - if you have a badge on there that says "supercharged," then you have the supercharged engine. If not, then you have the normally aspirated (NA) engine.

Don't waste your time on a vinyl repair kit. I've tried that (not on the Riv) and they're lousy. Get a pro to repair it - it may not cost much. I've got a big rip I mean to have fixed soon.

Your Riv isn't a limited edition (although there were 200 limited edition Riv's, called Silver Arrows, made in 99). Most car models end production after 4-7 years. Usually an old model is replaced with a new model, but sadly that did not happen in the case of the Riviera. There is currently a prototype Riviera being shown in China though -






The appearance is getting mixed reviews. If this is going to be the next Riviera, there are many things I'd like to see changed.

Jack the R wrote:

Look on the back of your trunk - if you have a badge on there that says "supercharged," then you have the supercharged engine. If not, then you have the normally aspirated (NA) engine.

.

Unless they lost the badge when she had it re-painted...

OK, I plodded out into the dark in my jammies to see what was on the back of the car. There is a little oval with an R in it, that you slide aside to open the trunk. It does not say supercharged. BUT...... I found the original sticker for little Blackie, and he is indeed supercharged. It says Engine- supercharged 3800 V6, and on the price it shows the same thing, with an upcharge of $1100.

Studying the sticker a little further, I see that my ex LIED to me about where he went to get it. The dealer who would not price it to me was in High Point NC, and as delighted as I was to get that car on Christmas day, the first thing I asked was "you didn't get it from that SOB at the High Point dealer, did you?" and he assured me no But on the sticker it shows Scott Garten Buick-GMC Truck Inc in High Point NC. Oh well, what's one more lie when he's been a wasband for years now..... and I still love my little black car.

So yes, we're supercharged.

And I will be stopping in for all those service records to see what on earth cost that much. I wonder if that included the brakes? I can find out tomorrow. It will be a shame if this mechanic I've trusted is not so good.... he's VERY convenient, I can get there in 10 minutes which is nice.

Oh well, I'm glad I remembered right about being supercharged. It has a nice sound to it.

What an X.

Another easy way to see if it's supercharged is to open the hood and look at the engine, if it's supercharged, it'll say "supercharged." Good luck finding a decent mechanic.

racinfan wrote:

What an X.

Another easy way to see if it's supercharged is to open the hood and look at the engine, if it's supercharged, it'll say "supercharged."

Oh man, here I was trying to figure out how to explain to a person who doesn't know what a supercharger is what one looks like, and I forgot it says "supercharged" on the engine cover!

I fixed that little panel for the passenger side seat controls. It's good as new. One thing less on the list!

You go girl.....................

Damn. I made a long post with all my Riv's medical history that I could find.... and its not here! Sigh. Starting over....

Got the service history, but only back to 3/07, 106K miles. Here's the scoop.

3/07 two used tires mounted balanced $116
5/06 oil change, power st flush, put in new window motor $376
7/06 oil change, turn rotors $273
9/06 oil change, new battery $207. This was on the heels of the starter being
replaced while I was out of town, then the car not starting when I drove
350 miles back to the dealer to pick it up.... my local guy figured out the
original battery finally died.
12/06 oil change $38
2/07 state inspection, and fix the horn so he can pass it. $46
5/07 oil change, freon in AC $81


They gave me a sheet that says that ever since last May, I should have flushed the transmission/coolant on my next visit. A seperate sheet says "automatic transaxle" is overdue, and should be done every 50K miles... starting at $149. It shows cooling fluid should be changed every 5 years or 100K miles, starting at $129. I know at one point, I did a 100K servicing, and these things SHOULD have been included, but I don't have the records and neither does he.
Are these fluids that he can LOOK at and see whether they have been done in the last 20-25K miles? (if so, I bet he'll be honest... he is the kind who brings me the old filters etc to look at, so I know they really did need replaced)

He did know about the supercharged belt, but said it's right up on top and he's never changed it because it looks good.

Now I hope this really posts.....

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but -

9/06 oil change, new battery $207.

seems high if the oil change is regularly $38. The battery should have "only" been $100. It is a more expensive battery than most cars use, and is harder to get at (under the back seat), but not $70 worth of labor. Maybe he bought it from an expensive place though and that added $30-40 to the battery price.

Glad to hear you got the seat control panel fixed! I felt much better after mine was set right. I had to look at that busted thing every time I got in the car (driver's side). The corner of my driver's seat was also heavily streaked up with shoe polish, from the previous owner who apparently didn't know how to get into/out of the vehicle, or that you can get shoes that don't need to be polished these days.

Jack, it probably was a liltle high. Since it was the starter that was the issue when I was in Amarillo, it took him a while checking things to figure out what the real problem was. I think part of it was being charged for his time/labor to run down the problem. He started under the hood and ended up under the back seat.... because he thought he "smelt battry"-- turns out there was battery acid leaking out of it.

I feel better having fixed the seat control panel-- I did not have to look at it, since it was on the passenger side, but it still bothered me. I have one of those awful minds that once I know something has to be done/fixed, it spins around in my head non stop till I get it taken care of.

Duh, today in the light of day, there is clearly a little part that says "supercharged" on the right hand side of the trunk. So it was not lost when I repainted.... it's there.