Hitch, Trailer, and Towing Discussion

i think rear wheel drive, gear ratio more suited for towing (like trucks have), low end torque and a suspension/frame made for towing also need to be factored in besides just brakes.

1978Z1R wrote:

Just make sure when towing to shift out of overdrive into 3rd. Learned this the hard way. I have got a nice new transmission now.

i noticed the opposite...on my trans temp gauge, the temp fell rapidly after going into OD.

What I have heard about towing in OD - if the transmission needs to shift into 3rd it will, otherwise leave it in 4th. It all depends on throttle position, and I can modify the shift points for my trip with my powertuner.

Upgraded brakes, plus the trailer has electric brakes and I will install a controller before this trip. Plus, my transmission also has many upgraded parts, hardened input shaft, improved 4th gear band, 'better' clutches, whatever that means, and I can increase operating pressures to boot.

I am not doing this trip until April. I am not looking forward to the 10 mpg my van gets over 1600 miles... last time I went it was about $1000 in gas.

You're correct on one portion, but missing the other. Most vehicles including those equiped with the setup the riviera has still fall vulnerable to greater increased wear and heat when in overdrive. In all the certification classe, tranny cooler, and hitch classes I went through, this was verified with quantifiable data. Certainly one can do anything for a short period for an intermittent variance. However, long tows like we marketed; ie coast to coast with a 1500-5000 lb tow weight dictated special treatment. Keeping that RPM up only helped.

If you put a controller in and watch the heat or install a cooler. your set. Our Riv's have been consistent towing vehicles for years. The only car better is the Ford Crown Vic and Lincoln Town Car. They of course have a full frame. Ours do not. I towed a 3500 lb setup for over a thousand miles several times at 70 mph with no problems after I learned. The new tranny was on my 84 Riveria prior to owning my 96.

1978Z1R wrote:

If you put a controller in and watch the heat or install a cooler. your set. Our Riv's have been consistent towing vehicles for years. The only car better is the Ford Crown Vic and Lincoln Town Car. They of course have a full frame. Ours do not. I towed a 3500 lb setup for over a thousand miles several times at 70 mph with no problems after I learned. The new tranny was on my 84 Riveria prior to owning my 96.

the towncar and vic are much better tow vehicles, no doubt. rear wheel drive, v8 powered and low end torque. but many cars are better towers than rivs. even the aurora is a better candidate. the 4t80 is a rated at 3k lbs towing compared to our 1k lbs 4t60's and 65's

DOT rated them the same. I made a little too bold of a statement stating "only" but the Rivieria has been consistent. That remains

I apologize that I made any remarks within this forum, it is clear that the rest of the individuals are in much greater of understanding of this subject. While this is typical of online forums, consider this. Inspite of my great medical knowledge and access to information, I trust what a Physician considers important. When I was one of the foremost managers within the trailer towing business, I felt as though I had and observed greater experience than 20 year old enthuists. Mr AA, I have read most of your posts and they seemed very moderate and well thought out, until I read your "I got hitched" (now merged with current thread). I have seen enough.

well thats why boards are here, to learn. imo, personally, ALL cars are substandard towers to any real truck or suv. by real, i mean fwd car framed based suvs are not real suvs.

what in his posts was your statement based on?

1978Z1R wrote:

I apologize that I made any remarks within this forum, it is clear that the rest of the individuals are in much greater of understanding of this subject. While this is typical of online forums, consider this. Inspite of my great medical knowledge and access to information, I trust what a Physician considers important. When I was one of the foremost managers within the trailer towing business, I felt as though I had and observed greater experience than 20 year old enthuists. Mr AA, I have read most of your posts and they seemed very moderate and well thought out, until I read your "I got hitched" (now merged with current thread). I have seen enough.

Please do not apologize. I have been working on cars for 20+ years, and towing trailers for 15+ years, plus I drove a tow truck for a few years in between, but that doesn't mean I know it all about towing. I'm pretty confident I can make this trip, and your points are all well taken. We always welcome new points of view.

I have installed a large transmission cooler, it's early on my list with any car... And if it feels like people are arguing with you, it's only to make sure we understand your point. Disagreements may be had, and tone is always hard to judge via text, but I don't feel like anyone was attacking you, hopefully you don't feel that way.

My '73 LeSabre was IMO the best small tow vehicle I ever drove. I have been considering selling my G30 1 ton van and just using my LeSabre for the HD jobs from now on. There are so many similarities it's not funny.

Not that the Riv fits into either category like those RWD HD vehicles, but given the number of upgrades plus an electric brake addition, I'm just tossing my idea out there for exactly this - discussion!

Quote :

Mr AA, I have read most of your posts and they seemed very moderate and well thought out, until I read your "I got hitched" (now merged with current thread). I have seen enough.

Can you please elaborate more on what you are trying to say here, 1978Z1R? Is there something in that thread you find inaccurate, incorrect, or dangerous? We do respect your opinion as a professional, however I'd like to read some specific reasons for taking a position on a subject other than mere credentials. If a physician told me I have a life-threatening illness, I want him to explain why he thinks so. Otherwise, I'd get a 2nd opinion.

I won't say that anyone here, including me, has a greater understanding about towing in general than you do. But we have collectively managed to discover a few things about the Riviera that may skew the general view on this subject. Why don't we compare what we know and try to come to some solid conclusions?

1978Z1R wrote:

The hitch that is installed on my Riviera is a Class II reciever hitch which is rated for 3500 pounds towed weight and 300 pounds tongue weight.

How can they sell a hitch rated for pulling 3500 lbs if GM says the car can only pull 1000 lbs? Doesn't that open the hitch manufacturer for lawsuit right there?

I don't think it makes them liable, it only means the hitch is rated "class II". Here's a link to some info on trailer classes: http://hitches4less.com/trailer-hitch-classes.html

Here is a note from that link:

"Always choose a hitch that is strong enough to handle the maximum anticipated total weight of the trailer but does not exceed the towing capacity of your vehicle. Refer to your vehicle's owner’s manual for maximum towing and tongue weight limitations. The trailer tongue load should be kept at 10 percent of the loaded trailer weight for weight-carrying* (deadweight) trailer hitches, and 12 percent for weight-distributing** (equalizing) trailer hitches. Also, you may need to consider vehicle modifications that might be beneficial, such as stiffer springs, air springs, overload or air assist shocks, larger sway bars or automatic transmission fluid (ATF) cooler. Such modifications may be needed on vehicles used for heavy towing or long-distance towing."

Don't know about you, but that information says to me that a stock vehicle can tow the weight recommended in the owners manual (1000 lb), but if I wish to do some heavy towing, I can modify my vehicle to do so. The term "heavy towing" implies more weight than the stock recommended by the owner's manual, imo.

Since I've installed brakes similar to that on a pick-up truck, adjustable air shocks, larger sway bars, I feel I can tow more than 1000 lb safely. If I was pulling an extreme distance (we'll say over 100 miles), I would install a trans cooler.

Quote :

Most vehicles including those equiped with the setup the riviera has still fall vulnerable to greater increased wear and heat when in overdrive. In all the certification classe, tranny cooler, and hitch classes I went through, this was verified with quantifiable data. Certainly one can do anything for a short period for an intermittent variance. However, long tows like we marketed; ie coast to coast with a 1500-5000 lb tow weight dictated special treatment. Keeping that RPM up only helped.

The quantifiable data you mention - does it apply to the average automatic transmission? In case you weren't aware, the supercharged Rivieras came with the 4t65e-HD (heavy duty). This means more robust parts, including the torque converter for use with supercharged V6 engines and LS4 V8. Do you believe this data includes and correctly represents our HD transmissions?

Just towed home a ton of bricks, literally. We had no idea how heavy it would be, but the trailer ended up past its max payload limit of 1600 lbs. Had to bend up the fender edges with pliers so they didn't rub. The tires were so hot when I got home I couldn't touch them. The Riv towed it about 5 miles, at 35 mph the whole way. No problems stopping or going. I estimate the total mass of car and trailer was ~7000 lbs. Hope the trailer is ok.

If I remember correctly, you didn't have to spend a lot of money for that trailer and you sure are getting your monies worth out of it.
Keep on Truckin, with the Riviera.

Yeah, it's been a good investment. It's like an old pick-up bed that I can beat up and haul whatever, without worrying about messing up the car. Then hide it in the garage when I'm not using. Also I let my friend borrow it the other day for hauling some home supplies - it's a LOT more convenient to loan out a trailer vs. an entire vehicle.

So I calculated there were over 600 bricks in that last load. I weighed a brick today at 5.8 lbs, so that means the load was about 3500 lb + 350 lb trailer weight, which is double the trailer's rated capacity, four times the Riv's rated towing capacity. Altogether that haul was 8000 lb - like I was towing another Riviera behind me!

Good news, the trailer is now fine after all of that. This morning I towed our television set 30 miles for repair, and everything appears to be working great.

Buy a pickup,why would you use a Riviera, to tow anything.If at all last resorts, Maybe a jet ski, with a babe on it,other wise noway!!!

Im cheap , ive seen the new ones , and i dont wanna pay that much....
If i can get a bargin ill see ....
My wifes commander pulls it fine , but like i stated earlier id have to trade her my car

Quote :

Buy a pickup,why would you use a Riviera, to tow anything.If at all last resorts, Maybe a jet ski, with a babe on it,other wise noway!!! sad

Trailers make so much more sense than pick-ups. You can leave the bed at home when you want to use your car. You can let someone borrow your trailer without lending them your truck. The Riviera has more torque than some trucks. I've pulled a ton nearly 100 miles, 2 tons a shorter distance. The added weight of the receiver makes the car more balanced for better handling. The hitch is nearly invisible when not in use. Riviera's air ride rear suspension is perfect for towing.

Put the heat to that tranny,Must be a red neck thing right!!!

flyineagle96 wrote:

Put the heat to that tranny,Must be a red neck thing right!!!

Well, adding a tranny cooler is definitely a prerequisite... I've done mine, now I just have to find a reason to by the HIdden Hitch.

My tranny now runs cooler with a trans cooler + trailer than it did before the trans cooler, pulling its own weight.

I love the looks I get pulling this thing around. Fifty 40 lb bags: