Write-Up: Make a Brake Bleeder

Why? What does that mean?

it's probably a play on words - it took me over a year to get around to posting the pictures; RivieraTType posted "photobucket is your friend" a while back and I ended up using photobucket to put put the snaps.

Albertj

Does it work like the Motive Power Bleaders do? I have one of those with adapters for domestics, Euro and Japaneese master cylinder resevoirs,...and also a Mighty Vac. As cool as the Motive unit is,...I find myself just using the Mighty Vac most of the time.

I'll just put a good suction on each corner and give the brake pedal a pump or two to speed things up. (Usually I always do that for the rears. The rears don't seem to draw through as easilly as the fronts.



I'll check under the hood this morning,...and then swing by the parts yard to grab a EBCM or two. The dealer wanted $700 for one. The parts yard is $8 - $22.

Viva recycling.

If you already have a Motive you don't likely need the converted sprayer. My design avoids the possibility of leaking at the gauge or connections and siphons back fluid to the right level (the motive will not - using it you will likely spill fluid when you are done). On the other hand, mine won't exactly take various adapters. You'd have to rig a gauged cap for each different MC you want to work on.

One reason to use a power bleeder of some description, is that the problem with the rears that you mention (above) goes away.

One problem with pumping the brake pedal is if you go past the customary travel of the MC piston and the bore is not smooth it will chew up the piston seal.

Albertj

duckstu wrote:

Does it work like the Motive Power Bleaders do? I have one of those with adapters for domestics, Euro and Japaneese master cylinder resevoirs,...and also a Mighty Vac. As cool as the Motive unit is,...I find myself just using the Mighty Vac most of the time.
I'll just put a good suction on each corner and give the brake pedal a pump or two to speed things up. (Usually I always do that for the rears. The rears don't seem to draw through as easilly as the fronts.
I'll check under the hood this morning,...and then swing by the parts yard to grab a EBCM or two. The dealer wanted $700 for one. The parts yard is $8 - $22.
Viva recycling.

Question; I have a hand held pistol grip type Mighty Vac with the brake bleeder cup attachment that I've used for years when bleeding the brakes on motorcycles. Some of them do not have the bleeder screw at the lowest point in the system, so vacuum bleeding became necessary. And this tool is also necessary when diagnosing vacuum controlled valves, etc on auto's and bikes.
My question is while using one of these to bleed the brakes, how could you possibly apply the brake pedal at the same time while working alone.?
How can you maintain negative pressure (vacuum) and maintain the fluid reservoir level with brake fluid while using this tool.???? Are we talking apples to apples.?
I also have a MightyVac MV7201 that holds 2.2 gallons and is pressurized by pumping a handle similar to a garden sprayer.
It can be used to provide vacuum in larger volumes and/or pressure to pump out what is in the 2.2 gallon reservoir.
I have yet to use this one to vacuum out my Brake System alone as it will pull the reservoir dry in no time. I guess what i need to do is put a longer hose on it and be able to monitor the Brake Fluid reservoir fluid level while applying vacuum and replenishing the reservoir as needed.

Sometimes on rear calipers, the Mighty Vac just can't pull hard enough to get more than a few oz of fluid, so you could pump 25 psi vacuum, leave it connected, then pump the brake a little to get it moving.

I've never had the above problem with the Riviera, but on a Honda, a Toyota, and a Saturn, it was difficult to pull the fluid through the rears without some pedal assistance.

I see.
I've always left the bleeder screws open until i start to get fluid flow from gravity, then close all screws and proceed to vacuum bleed from that point.
With this new, larger unit, I can pull much more vacuum (and fluid) more quickly, thereby shortening the length of time necessary to do the job.
This unit also allows me to remove the Trans fluid in the pan and make a partial fluid change if i so desire.
With the amount of miles I put on the Riviera per year, I'll pull out what fluid i can annually and top off with fresh fluid and do a complete pan drop and filter change every 3 years. At least that is my plan. I only have 2 years on it since complete overhaul, so I plan on dropping the pan and replacing filter next season.
I've also used it to completely flush the power steering system.
Handy to have around, I've drained the fuel for all my carburated equipment with this to avoid the Ethanol problems associated with leaving fuel in them over the winter also.

After re-reading Alberts post on making a pressure bleeder, I believe I have the necessary stuff to make one that will fill the reservoir and re-fill automatically.
All I need to do is get the proper cap for my MC and the fittings and a 30 psi gauge and I can make / modify my current MV7201 to do the same thing as his unit.
Should have thought of this sooner.
Will just be an addition to my set-up. Only custom for the Riv.

Rickw wrote:

............, how could you possibly apply the brake pedal at the same time while working alone.?
How can you maintain negative pressure (vacuum) and maintain the fluid reservoir level with brake fluid while using this tool.???? Are we talking apples to apples.?

I find that the fluid comes out of the rear calipers very slowly,...so much so that you can pump up a vacuum with the Mighty Vac, and it will stay a vacuum for a few minutes.

So with the Mighty Vacs' vacuum container plumbed in-line between one of the caliper bleader screws and the Mighty Vac pump,...I pump up a vacuum and open the bleader screw 1/2 turn. Then I situate the hose and such in some way that the vacuum reservoir stays upright (so the Mighty Vac pump itself doesn't injest brake fluid). Then I can get up and go pump the brake pedal. (slowly).

You won't need to close and open the bleader screw while this is going on,...the vacuum that is applied to the bleader screw will keep the caliper from injesting air as you release the brake pedal each time.

I find I have to give it 5-6 pumps to do the right rear (the first wheel I do),....2 or so for the left rear,...then 3 perhaps for the right front,..and perhaps 2 tfor the left front.

With my Subaru I change the fluid 3-4 times a year at least (it sees track duty). With that car I alternate between the ATE Yellow and ATE Super Blue. The color difference helps you see when the new fluid has arrived.

Thanks a lot for your response and clarification.
Rick

Rickw wrote:

After re-reading Alberts post on making a pressure bleeder, I believe I have the necessary stuff to make one that will fill the reservoir and re-fill automatically.
All I need to do is get the proper cap for my MC and the fittings and a 30 psi gauge and I can make / modify my current MV7201 to do the same thing as his unit.
Should have thought of this sooner.
Will just be an addition to my set-up. Only custom for the Riv.

Should work fine as long as you can get the MV7201 and its hoses clean enough, and as long as the fittings can be made tight enough not to admit any air.

Albertj

Jeg's has a Brake Bleeder on sale for reasonable money, if anyone is interested.

www.jegs.com/p/Motive-Products/Motive-Products-Power-Bleeders/753543/10002/-1

It appears from the application chart that the one that comes with adapter # 1108 is the one to fit the Riviera. (Late model GM)

bump

Rickw wrote:

Jeg's has a Brake Bleeder on sale for reasonable money, if anyone is interested.

www.jegs.com/p/Motive-Products/Motive-Products-Power-Bleeders/753543/10002/-1

It appears from the application chart that the one that comes with adapter # 1108 is the one to fit the Riviera. (Late model GM)

That's not bad, about ~3x the price of the parts to make one. Looks like they made it a copy of a design I saw posted on line - it's not hard to locate. Further comments:

• I don't think putting the gauge in the pressure bottle is such a swell idea. Means you have to watch the bottle when you should be watching the MC.
  
  I am sure their adapters fit but they do not have nipples to siphon the excess fluid back out of the MC. So when you pump up with this thing, letting the pressure off means that you will still have fluid spilling out the MC.
  
  Looks like they had similar problems to the issues I encountered when looking for a low pressure gauge (unobtainium). The working pressure when bleeding a brake system is 10-25 pounds. That is enough to see seepage if things are clean otherwise. And it is low enough not to screw up the ABS motor and valving.

The other big advantage to theirs is you don't have to engineer it yourself. I'm sure they will sell many into the DIY set, although the price could be better.

Albertj

Thanks for the write up. I have used the handheld vacuum pump to bleed the brakes, but this seemed to work better and faster. I didn't even put the fluid in the sprayer. I manually filled the reservoir after each wheel.

98riv wrote:

Thanks for the write up.  I have used the handheld vacuum pump to bleed the brakes, but this seemed to work better and faster.  I didn't even put the fluid in the sprayer.  I manually filled the reservoir after each wheel.

You're welcome, used mine several years, have replaced gauge and made a head to bleed late model Fords (by necessity).

It's been 12 years - I still use the brake bleeder as built. Every couple years, a brake fluid change. Also makes maintenance somewhat easier.

As Esso used to say, "Happy Motoring!"

Albertj