MOSTLY good oil report analysis (Blackstone Labs)

OK. here is the latest sample from the 99 Riv.
Engine has 85,040 miles
3,113 miles on this oil

Comments from Blackstone: Wear continues to look good in the latest sample from your Riviera. The viscosity was again slightly low for a 10W/30 but this doesn't seem to be a problem for your 3.8L. You've been keeping your oil runs around 3,000 miles but we think you could easily run your oil longer. Try 4,000 miles next time and check back for another look at wear. If everything looks good we'll suggest going even longer next time. No harmful contaminants were found. At 85,040 miles your engine is going strong. Check back to see how your engine looks after the long run.



Here are the elements and properties.


Alum: 2 (avg: 3)
Chrom: 1 (avg: 1)
Iron: 6 (avg: 13)
Copp: 13 (avg: 17)
Lead: 3 (avg: 8)
Tin: 0 (avg: 1)
Moly: 98 (avg: 63)
Nick: 0 (avg: 0)
Mang: 0 (avg: 1)
Silv: 0 (avg: 0)
Titan: 0 (avg: 0)
Potass: 9 (avg: 7)
Boron:34 (avg: 45)
Silic: 5(avg: 11)
Sodiu:208 (avg: 21)
Calc: 1380(avg: 2076)
Magn: 10(avg: 88)
Phosp: 548 (avg: 690)
Zinc: 689 (avg: 844)
Barium: 0 (avg: 0)

Properties:

SUS Viscosity @ 212ºF: 56.7 (should be 58-64)
cSt Viscosity @ 100ºF: 9.26 (should be 9.6-11.6)
Flashpoint in ºF: 385 (should be >365)
Fuel%: <.05 (should be <2.0)
Antifreeze%: 0.0 (should be 0)
Water %: 0.0 (should be <0.1)
Insolubles %: 0.5 (should be <.6)

The sodium levels concern me but I guess they mean nothing without elevated Potassium levels?

The viscosity level is low on this Castrol 10W-30 and was also low on the previous sample which was GM 10W-30 ?

Thanks for any input .

Bert

I think the sodium can be found in additives and lubricants in some types of oil. There is a key on the oil analysis that mentions it I think. You could also call Blackstone - they are very nice to deal with. Your levels are very high, so would be nice to know even if it's not a problem.

I'm really bummed out now. I unintentionally ran over 5000 miles on my last oil change, just changed it today. And FORGOT to take a sample to send in for testing! I remembered as the last drips fell into my collection container, mixing with the oil I changed on our van yesterday.

What a great opportunity it would have been to see if Blackstone's warnings about keeping at 3500 miles max would prove out. I have a very small coolant contamination at 3000 miles and they've told me not to run over 3500. I put on about 2000 over that this time, oops. Would have been interesting to see test results...

Yes, would have been interesting. I think we would have seen the expected result: even higher levels of contaminants in the oil due to extended service interval and further deterioration of the LIM gasket.

Blackstone gave me a recommendation to change oil every 3k based my level of contamination. I've been changing every 2500 miles since last fall. Not taking any chances.

Well, I finally got around to sending in a 4,000-mile oil sample to Blackstone... and it's driving me nuts.

While it does gives me the kick in the pants to finally replace the intake manifold gaskets, (if only on general principles,) I'm not sure the chemical levels (and my recovery-tank levels) make sense. After some stubborn air finally exited the cooling system, my recovery tank doesn't look like it has dropped AT ALL in 2 or 3 months. Also, some of you have had much higher Sodium readings, without Blackstone claiming coolant contamination - plus my "Antifreeze %" reading came out only as '?'...

The Lead & other metal readings bother me, but I'm wondering if the super-duper new Castrol Edge might be to blame - although, conversely, less than 1 quart consumption in 4,000 miles is the best I've ever seen. Finally, how much wear can be attributed to my VERY city driving? I have a lot of cold starts, and the engine is often not even warmed up when I make my first stop... In fact, I was surprised that there was 0% fuel in the oil after driving maybe 10 miles.


Lead (from bearings) was fairly high in this initial sample. This is not enough to suspect a major
problem, though it does show poor wear. We also found enough sodium to suspect anti-freeze seeping into the oil. This along with the silicon (usually dirt getting past the air filter) may be causing some of the lead.

The TBN was 2.9, showing plenty of active additive remaining in the oil. A TBN is low at 1.0. Change this oil and resample after 4,000 miles of use to monitor.

Chemical, Mine, Universal Avg
Aluminum, 5, 3
Chromium, 1, 1
Iron, 23, 17
Copper, 26, 23
Lead, 19, 10
Tin, 2, 1
Molybdenum, 88, 66
Nickel, 3, 0
Manganese, 5, 1
Silver, 0, 0
Titanium, 0, 0
Potassium, 12, 8
Boron, 21, 56 (!)
Silicon, 43, 13
Sodium, 40, 16
Calcium, 2842, 2261
Magnesium, 18, 157 (!?!)
Phosphorus, 598, 693
Zinc, 702, 846
Barium, 0, 0

SUS viscosity, 58.2, 59-65
cSt viscosity, 9.7, 9.9-11.9
Flashpoint, 395, >375
Fuel %, <0.5, <2.0
Antifreeze %, ?, 0
Water %, 0, <0.1
Insolubles %, 0.4, <0.6

TBN 2.9

Do you know what the baseline chemisry of Castrol EDGE is? I mean, maybe the 'wear metals' are already present in the oil as part of the additive package? Adding nanoscale metal powders? Maybe they found a new use for that stockpile of tetraethyl lead (just kidding).

Aside from the (JK), I know where you're coming from, Albert... But since they (theoretically) have all the information about the base oil before it's sent to them, I'm just 'trusting' that they have the data about the raw oil...

However, after I posted on here, I did reply to Blackstone's email with the following:

First, let me say that I'm very happy with your turnaround time... I mailed
the oil last thing on Friday afternoon, and received my email report on
Wednesday afternoon.

I do have some questions about the attached report:

On the purely objective side, can you check to see which Zinc figure is
correct? This is my first test, but the individual figure and the personal
average are 762 & 662 respectively... Also, is a "?" a correct reading
for Antifreeze% ?

I'm especially interested in the Antifreeze because I know these engines
have a reputation for bad intake manifold gaskets, and I am concerned
about the levels of Lead and other metals... On the other hand, I've seen
other Riviera 3800's with much higher Sodium levels where there was no
judgment regarding coolant contamination. More importantly, my coolant
recovery tank has not dropped at all in the last couple months, and I'm
wondering if either the brand-new Castrol Edge may be less than perfect,
or if my extremely "City" driving with a lot of cold starts and short trips
may be the culprit.

Thanks for any light you can shed,

Naturally, I'll share any reply I get from BS...
Mark

I'd think your city driving would accelerate wear, especially if the Castrol does not have the part of the additive pack that Mobil 1 uses to keep the oil on the parts when shutoff. I read somewhere that an issue with the early PAO synthetics is that they'd drip off the metal pretty fast, so if you had frequent shutdowns and something like a half hour minimum length of shutdown then the oil would all come off and drip into the pan, leaving the metal essentially naked. Dino oil would leave a film. So, again this is my understanding, Exxon put something in Mobil1 to make it leave a film behind for cold starts. Think of it kind of like a shampoo bottle in the shower. It all slides off the inner walls of the bottle, eventually, leaving the bottle interior clean. If it was Mobil1 in that bottle it would not all slide off so fast. And oh by the way the easy way to utilize all your shampoo is to leave the bottle inverted when not in use after it is about 1/2 empty - which is why many come with flat flip tops. That's so you can park the bottle upside down in the shower and use all of the contents... they don't tell you that, though, because sometimes they seep...

anyway... (this is home-ec for cars not shampoooing)

If the Castrol people did not do that (put in an additive to leave residual film) in EDGE, then your start-stop wear is going to be prodigious.

Also I recall reading another post of a series of Blackstone analyses, which showed that changing Mobil1 too often accelerated wear - that is in the first 1500 miles or so of use wear metals spiked then leveled off for another 11000 (yeah) or so miles before starting to creep up again. Depending on how you read the numbers a 7500 mile change interval for Mobil1 is kind of a minimum... don't know the corresponding info for EDGE.

I also don't know if EDGE is a true PAO. The only true PAO synths I know of are Mobil1, AMSOil Synth and I think Royal Purple. All the rest are modified Dino oil, AFAIK.

Just sayin'

Albertj

Thanks for you very valid input, Albert.

BTW, I do put my shampoo bottle upside down from the very beginning.
(I do, however, find it harder to leave the car upside down... )

Lol, modern shampoo bottles are designed to be stored upside down for the obvious reasons discussed. They don't need to tell anyone to do this, as many brands are sold off the shelf in this orientation, with inverted labeling. More and more bottles can ONLY be placed on their cap. Same with ketchup and soap bottles. Properly designed, the caps do not seep.

Mark,

I hope you don't doubt your LIM gasket is leaking coolant just because your reservoir isn't showing low. You won't notice a level drop even after several months of the LIM gasket leaking. If you don't believe Blackstone Labs, check your spark plugs - the cylinders with coolant leakage will show deposits on the electrodes.

I never thought of sending my oils samples in. I have full access to Polaris Laboritories in Edmonton. I am a service manager in the Agricultural industry and we do alot of oil samples for ultrashield inspections. I will have to try that next time I change my oil. It would be interesting to see how much fuel % there is in the oil.

I did not notice any coolant level drop either on my car, yet when we pulled the LIM there were obvious signs of seepage past that gasket. Only a matter of time before it would have become much worse.
Did mine as preventive maintenance, and glad I did. It was done sometime after passing the 100,000 mile mark and before 110K miles.
Rick

Rickw wrote:

I did not notice any coolant level drop either on my car, yet when we pulled the LIM there were obvious signs of seepage past that gasket. Only a matter of time before it would have become much worse.
Did mine as preventive maintenance, and glad I did. It was done sometime after passing the 100,000 mile mark and before 110K miles.
Rick

Where the f..k you been Ricker??

robotennis61 wrote:

Where the f..k you been Ricker??

Been out sick. when I'm ill, I REALLY don't play well with the other kids, so I chose not to log on and hurt some of the Thinner skinned members feelings.
It seems so easy to do on this site.

I'm SO misunderstood.

Albert & Rick,

I agree. As I said, I'm using this report as the kick in the ass I need to replace those gaskets... and I'm doing my best to garner all the necessary or even possible parts/seals/gaskets/elbows ahead of time.

Those guys at BS (BlackStone, ) are really great at customer service. Though they do have prior experience with Castrol Edge (which IS claimed to be full-synthetic,) within hours I received this reply to my post above:

"Mark: Thank you for the e-mail. Glad to hear you like our
service. We appreciate your business. The 762 ppm reading for zinc
is correct. That element was reading a little low, so we had some
samples rerun and entered the correct figures after the Unit/Location
averages had been figured. Sorry we did not recalculate your
averages. I'll do that right now.

The "?" is correct for anti-freeze. Based on the sodium level, it's possible some may be
getting into the oil, or the sodium may just be additive in the oil
itself (or a past oil). Since your coolant level is holding steady,
chances are good the sodium is from additive in a past oil. Most
oils either don't use it, or use it up at 200-400 PPM. ** If you want to
send in a sample of virgin Castrol Edge, we'll run it for no charge
to see where it's sodium level starts. Other samples we've seen from
that type of oil doesn't use, it, but they may have changed formulas.

Let me know if you have any more questions..

Sincerely,
Ryan Stark
Blackstone Labs"

** I guess that explains why others have had high sodium readings without Blackstone blaming it on coolant...

Mark,
BTW, How many miles do you have on your car now.?
You may have posted this info, but I missed it.
Rick

Rickw wrote:

Mark,
BTW, How many miles do you have on your car now.?
You may have posted this info, but I missed it.
Rick

93,000... I've only put 4,000 miles/year on it since I bought it 6 years ago.

Eldo wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Mark,
BTW, How many miles do you have on your car now.?
You may have posted this info, but I missed it.
Rick

93,000... I've only put 4,000 miles/year on it since I bought it 6 years ago.

O.K. granny you have me beat. I have managed to put about 6,000 miles this last year just transporting my ass back and forth to the hospital and Friggin Doctors appointments.
Are we gettin OLD yet. I can't wait for this shit to be over and i can get back to life again.
Hoping for the good weather to come and I'll be back on at least one of my motorcycles and have a reason why I have so few miles on the car.

I thought the oil analysis thread was appropriate for this.

Had my oil run by blackstone this past week. Here are the results:



I have always used castrol GTX but for the past year i have been using Mobil 1 full syn (been able to get it for a good price). 10W30 in both cases.
Im a little concerned about the lack of good metals in the mobil 1 and the high iron content seems to be a trend on other performance drivers.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z06-discussion/3027044-should-i-worry-blackstone-lab-report-shows-trending-iron-content.html

Any thoughts? Maybe time for a high mileage oil? or 10W40? My thought is that they may reduce my leak some and aid in protection from metal part wear.

Sweet. I'm about to change my oil today. I will get a sample. By the way, is full synthetic the best for our engines? I know on a wet clutch system it's no good but what about series II 3800?

Doesn't hurt if you can afford it. I use conventional 10w-30.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t117-faq-engine-oil-what-type-and-change-intervals

me too Castrol 10w-30