Write-Up: HID Conversion

Rickw wrote:

The bottom line is you are trying to trigger a 12 volt relay with approxiamately 6 volts depending on where in the system you are tapping into for the control of the relay.

I have bits and pieces of that wiring diagram in my head but I can't recall where or how to trigger DRL's.
I think there is a way, just need to look at the wiring diagram some more.

Timo and Eldo posted the Headlight and DRL wiring diagram on another thread, just can't remember the name of the thread, might be this one. I just noticed it's 22 pages long.
See if you can find that diagram and copy it, you'll be able to better see the point in the system where you can or cannot do what your trying to do using the cars wiring as it is. It's possible that you may have to add a switch in the cockpit to provide 12 volts to the relay or find a relay that will operate the trigger on 6 volt.

You know I knew it ran off of a lower voltage, but it somehow didn't occur to me that it would be half. I was thinking of just putting in a switch but I want it as seemless as possible.

I've looked for the diagram and I can't find it for the life of me. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

For what it's worth, I'm tapping in to the actual connecting harness that connects up to the normal halogen bulb on the passenger side as the trigger point. I didn't want to splice anything in and the harness I got recommended to use that connection.

There are 2 different wiring diagrams in the Topic "How do you get the low beams to stay on with the highs"
I believe they are on page 3 and 4.
https://rivperformance.editboard.com/exterior-f12/how-do-you-get-the-low-beams-to-stay-on-with-the-highs-t5215.htm?highlight=how+do+you+get+the+low+beams+to+stay+on+with+the+highs

Just remember the placement of those relays were for the above titled purpose, but the diagram shows the DRL circuit for review. You may be able to pull 12 volts from the DRL circuit if you pick up your splice point in a different location.

This is when I really wish I would have studied electrical engineering. I can understand those drawings enough for a rough idea, but not enough to do anything with.

I'm wondering if I would have to find this under the dash close to the lcm or if there's a trigger point close to the actual headlight harness. I really don't want to dig in the dash and mess with the lcm. It's just asking for trouble in a 12 year old electrical laiden car.

Does anyone know for sure if the DRLs are just lower voltage, or do they do pulse voltage, or reversed politary?

Basically you're stuck...
Either you try to fire the ballasts with lower voltage, or else you have dangerously dazzling DRL's.
Neither is an acceptable option.

(Yes, the DRL's use half-voltage to each bulb.)

Eldo wrote:

Basically you're stuck...
Either you try to fire the ballasts with lower voltage, or else you have dangerously dazzling DRL's.
Neither is an acceptable option.

(Yes, the DRL's use half-voltage to each bulb.)

The way I look at the dazzling DRLs is they are just the same brightness as regular headlights, which I've used as DRLs in cars without DRLs. It's not like I'm running spot lights in the DRL sockets. If they don't blind oncoming drivers in the dark, I doubt they would do it when the sun is shining and washing the lights out to begin with.

I'm gonna try to make it so a 6 volt relay will then trigger the twelve volt relay which will turn on the lights. I'm too stubborn to quit.

The DRLs are the brights, more wattage, and aimed higher than headlights. This way the bulb's life is extended (6v), while still being bright enough to see. With 12v they will be a lot brighter than the normal headlights are. If you've ever blinded someone at night with your brights, you can understand what to expect.

GMFreak8 wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Basically you're stuck...
Either you try to fire the ballasts with lower voltage, or else you have dangerously dazzling DRL's.
Neither is an acceptable option.

(Yes, the DRL's use half-voltage to each bulb.)

The way I look at the dazzling DRLs is they are just the same brightness as regular headlights, which I've used as DRLs in cars without DRLs. It's not like I'm running spot lights in the DRL sockets. If they don't blind oncoming drivers in the dark, I doubt they would do it when the sun is shining and washing the lights out to begin with.

I'm gonna try to make it so a 6 volt relay will then trigger the twelve volt relay which will turn on the lights. I'm too stubborn to quit.

Full on, the OE high beams are at least 5W more powerful than the OE low beams. Wattages are marked on the bulb bases.

Albertj

I would definitely NOT put HID's on a DRL circuit. You'd have to disable DRL for that to work, because otherwise your ballasts will not get the full power they need and may not fire at all.

GMFreak8 wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Basically you're stuck...
Either you try to fire the ballasts with lower voltage, or else you have dangerously dazzling DRL's.
Neither is an acceptable option.

(Yes, the DRL's use half-voltage to each bulb.)

The way I look at the dazzling DRLs is they are just the same brightness as regular headlights, which I've used as DRLs in cars without DRLs. It's not like I'm running spot lights in the DRL sockets. If they don't blind oncoming drivers in the dark, I doubt they would do it when the sun is shining and washing the lights out to begin with.

I'm gonna try to make it so a 6 volt relay will then trigger the twelve volt relay which will turn on the lights. I'm too stubborn to quit.

AA wrote:

The DRLs are the brights, more wattage, and aimed higher than headlights. This way the bulb's life is extended (6v), while still being bright enough to see. With 12v they will be a lot brighter than the normal headlights are. If you've ever blinded someone at night with your brights, you can understand what to expect.

Well, admitting you're stubborn is the first step towards recovery...

First of all, you're talking about using HID's, which are brighter and possibly not aimed as well as stock high-beams.
Secondly, you don't have the brights on all the time at night - you turn them off when you have oncoming traffic...
.

Eldo wrote:

GMFreak8 wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Basically you're stuck...
Either you try to fire the ballasts with lower voltage, or else you have dangerously dazzling DRL's.
Neither is an acceptable option.

(Yes, the DRL's use half-voltage to each bulb.)

The way I look at the dazzling DRLs is they are just the same brightness as regular headlights, which I've used as DRLs in cars without DRLs. It's not like I'm running spot lights in the DRL sockets. If they don't blind oncoming drivers in the dark, I doubt they would do it when the sun is shining and washing the lights out to begin with.

I'm gonna try to make it so a 6 volt relay will then trigger the twelve volt relay which will turn on the lights. I'm too stubborn to quit.

AA wrote:

The DRLs are the brights, more wattage, and aimed higher than headlights. This way the bulb's life is extended (6v), while still being bright enough to see. With 12v they will be a lot brighter than the normal headlights are. If you've ever blinded someone at night with your brights, you can understand what to expect.

Well, admitting you're stubborn is the first step towards recovery...

First of all, you're talking about using HID's, which are brighter and possibly not aimed as well as stock high-beams.
Secondly, you don't have the brights on all the time at night - you turn them off when you have oncoming traffic...
.

Right, but the HIDs I have in are "dims". They aren't 55 watt hid bulbs or ballasts. I'm also not running them off the DRL circuit. I'm just using the DRL circuit to signal a relay to turn the HIDs on which are directly connected to the battery. That way they get full wattage.

I got the HID DRLs to work today. I had someone put the car in drive while I stood in front of the car. I have 12K hid bulbs in it which aren't nearly as bright as my 4300 hid bulbs. They actually look of similar intensity to the regular halogen DRLs. The 12K bulbs barely light up the road when it's dark outside. I don't know how anyone could use these to actually drive.

Anyway, I'm making progress. I played around with things today, and it seems as though I do not need a 6 volt relay. The trigger connection for the 12 volt relay harness was loose, and apparently you need a bulb or something of equivalent resistance in both headlight sockets for the DRL system to activate.

So with the loose connection fixed, I inserted a plain old paper clip into the drivers side light socket, and the HID bulbs activated when in drive. Works great. Only thing is the paper clip works with the six volts fine, but when you put your brights on it completely melts.

Does anyone know of anything that could simulate the load of a 60 watt halogen bulb that I could rig as a plug in jumper cable so to speak? I really don't want to leave a bulb just sitting in the socket so the system works.

I will post pictures of the DRLs when it is completely done just to prove I'm not an ass who wants to blind people. They truly aren't that bright.

Get the resistor of the same resistance and you'll be good to go. Radio Shack for the parts.
Don't give up, if the first resistor burns out. You may have to try trial and error at first and keep increasing the size of the resistor. But it shouldn't take that long, actually.

You said a 60watt bulb will fill the requirement, then try the same resistor. Maybe somethging with a little higher wattage rating to be sure, but don't exceed the rating of the wires, or else you could have a meltdown of the wire's.

Rickw wrote:

Get the resistor of the same resistance and you'll be good to go. Radio Shack for the parts.
Don't give up, if the first resistor burns out. You may have to try trial and error at first and keep increasing the size of the resistor. But it shouldn't take that long, actually.

You said a 60watt bulb will fill the requirement, then try the same resistor. Maybe somethging with a little higher wattage rating to be sure, but don't exceed the rating of the wires, or else you could have a meltdown of the wire's.

Thanks rick.

I was researching it all night yesterday. I literally dreamt volts watts amps and ohms. I've got it figured out I think. If I use three of these resistors in parrallel it'll simulate a 2.6 ohm, 55 watt, 4.6 amp 12 volt load with the wattage split between the three resistors so they don't overload (in theory from my calculations).. That should be enough to handle the high beam power and at the same time trick the DRL system into thinking that a bulb is connected to the socket.

I'm at work now, but ironically I work two doors down from a radioshack so I'll have to stop over there afterwards and pick some up.

I also found a prebuilt version called a "load resistor" on amazon, but it's around $15 and I don't get to play around with building my own.

GMFreak8 wrote:

I also found a prebuilt version called a "load resistor" on amazon, but it's around $15 and I don't get to play around with building my own.

Can you get me a Link to this "Load Resistor"

I may have another use for it.

Thanks,
Rick

Rickw wrote:

GMFreak8 wrote:

I also found a prebuilt version called a "load resistor" on amazon, but it's around $15 and I don't get to play around with building my own.

Can you get me a Link to this "Load Resistor"

I may have another use for it.

Thanks,
Rick

Sure. Here's the link to some on Amazon.

And here's a link to tons on eBay as well.

So are you planning to run HIDs full time in the high beam sockets? As your primary lighting? Or just as high beams?

Be very carefull with your aiming of the HIDS in the High Beam circuit - you can easily blind someone at night and they can end up crashing into you head on from the temporary blindness. "Be Careful"

Now what do you plan on running for a load resistor to make them work.? What size have you calculated will do the trick for your lights ratings in a 13.5 to 14.0 volt system.?????

Remember to use 13.5 - 14.5 for your voltage during calculations as that is what the bulb will see from the battery/Alternator.

GMFreak8 wrote:

OK, so I got the HIDs installed for brights and DRLs. I don't want to use them as brights, I would like to use them as DRLs though.

GMFreak8 wrote:

AA wrote:

The DRLs are the brights, more wattage, and aimed higher than headlights. This way the bulb's life is extended (6v), while still being bright enough to see. With 12v they will be a lot brighter than the normal headlights are. If you've ever blinded someone at night with your brights, you can understand what to expect.

Eldo wrote:

First of all, you're talking about using HID's, which are brighter and possibly not aimed as well as stock high-beams.
Secondly, you don't have the brights on all the time at night - you turn them off when you have oncoming traffic...
.

Right, but the HIDs I have in are "dims"...

I will post pictures of the DRLs when it is completely done just to prove I'm not an ass who wants to blind people. They truly aren't that bright.

I'm glad to hear your last sentence there, but what doesn't compute is the first line and then the line about the HID's being "dims"...

You're putting "full-power low-beam HIDs" into the high-beam socket, and then running their ballasts at full voltage, to use as DRL's, right?

I was thinking the same thing. It seems he wants a "purple" light, rather than a brighter light, for DRLs. The question then becomes: how will the brights work at night? HIDs can't operate at dual light levels like halogens, so you're either stuck with very dim brights, or you drive around blinding people all day.

I'm not planning on running or using the HIDs in the high beam sockets as high beams at all. I want them as DRLs and only DRLs. I just want to have a circuit that supports the higher current flow in case for some reason I need to use them at night (other lights die or some other reason) or someone drives my car and forgets and flicks on the brights. As soon as the low beams come on, the drl hid bulbs shut off, just as it does from factory. I haven't used my brights since I put low beam 4300K HIDs in, I have no need for them. So I'm basically using the high beam sockets to run low beam DRLs. Same exact affect as just switching my low beams on as driving lights during the day.

My main reasons for doing this are as follows:

1.) I want all HIDs. Why? Because I have OCD and having halogen and HID bulbs just really bothers me. One is instantaneous going on and off and the halogens are slow reacting. It drives me insane. Same thing when I'm behind a newer car and they have LED tail lights but the turn signals are still halogen. It just bothers me for no reason at all.

2.) I love electrical things, and this is a challenge for me.

3.) I want my car to look different. Why? Because I hate following the crowd. Stupid? Probably, but that's the way I've been all my life.


I'm not looking to cause issues. I just wanted to try something different. I'm confident that the HID DRLs that I have aren't bright enough to cause issues. They're not as bright as my 4300K low beam HIDs (hence the reason I'm not using 12K bulbs as my main driving lights), and not nearly as bright as driving around with halogen 60 watt bulbs. From my own unscientific experiments they're right around the same brightness as the old halogen bulbs running in DRL mode, but give the car a much nicer and longer lasting appearance upgrade without causing any other issues.

Now my next step after I get this taken care of is to upgrade my fog lights to H3 HIDs. Those I understand could cause an issue (people flash me with just my standard 85 watt halogen fogs) which is way I'd only be using them on the dark deer ridden back roads, and the reason why I have a separate switch to turn them off whenever I need to independently.

We understand that you're using them as DRLs "only", but you're still talking about HID intensity in place of 1/2-power, series-wired halogen DRLs. The Kelvin number is indicative of color, not lumens/brightness...

Eldo wrote:

We understand that you're using them as DRLs "only", but you're still talking about HID intensity in place of 1/2-power, series-wired halogen DRLs. The Kelvin number is indicative of color, not lumens/brightness...

The higher the kelvin number the brightness does decrease. Either perceived or real it doesn't matter. All I know is they seem about the same as the half powered lights in brightness and definitely are not as bright as my 4300K "dims" that don't get me flashed at night much less the day.

GMFreak8 wrote:

Eldo wrote:

We understand that you're using them as DRLs "only", but you're still talking about HID intensity in place of 1/2-power, series-wired halogen DRLs. The Kelvin number is indicative of color, not lumens/brightness...

The higher the kelvin number the brightness does decrease. Either perceived or real it doesn't matter. All I know is they seem about the same as the half powered lights in brightness and definitely are not as bright as my 4300K "dims" that don't get me flashed at night much less the day.

Yet these units are sold as legitimate low-beam replacements?

Which bulbs do you plan on using for the DRL's once you get the relay part figured out.

What rating on the HID's, just so we can compare to the halogens, if possible.

Kelvin DOES indicate brightness for a given wattage level. You get peak Lumens from the most white light, which is ~4800ºK. You get less Lumens below that value (yellow), and you get less, less and less above that value (blue, purple, pink).

Quote :

I haven't used my brights since I put low beam 4300K HIDs in, I have no need for them.

Here is the big concern a lot of us have about HIDs being used in a conventional lens. If you are able to see further with HIDs in the standard lens, it means the light is bright enough to blind oncoming traffic. You don't have this problem with projectors, because they have a sharp beam edge cut-off.