New guy with a few questions - Car shuts off

did you pull the trunk carpet out and look at the top of the pump yet?

Albertj

^^ Not a bad idea. Visually inspect as much of the wiring as possible, the problem might just pop out.

I have not inspected the wiring at the pump but will do so this evening. Man, I don't want to be stuck again somewhere with a dead car. I am confident with the help I am getting here that we will get to the bottom of this. I will let you know what I find.

Checked the fuel pump wiring tonight and found nothing unusual. No rubbed wires, no corrosion, wiggled wires and nothing turned off. The key chip (vats) system seems to be functioning as it should. As I stated earlier, the battery connectors had worked a little loose. Battery is not correct, no vent and not a sealed unit. Doesn't quite fit tightly so I think it just vibrated itself loose. What do you guys think? I still have not put a fuel pressure gauge on it but ran the car for over an hour, ran it over lots of bumps, did a couple wide open runs, shut it off and restarted about a million times. Not sure how to proceed. My drive to work starts at 6 Am and is about 25 miles. I am VERY hesitant to use this thing until I'm sure it's up to it. Please help lay my fears to rest. Thanks!

Intermittent problems are almost impossible to track down until they happen. I don't know what to tell you next... It would be great if you had a scan tool in the car next time it did this.. Than again, maybe you solved it with the loose terminals.

From the owners manual regarding Pass-key II (Deekster, you were right, it's not VATS anymore):

When the PASS-Key 11 system senses that someone is
using the wrong key, it shuts down the vehicle’s starter and
fuel systems. For about three minutes, the starter won’t
work and fuel won’t go to the engine. If someone tries to
start your vehicle again or uses another key durinthgi s
time, the vehicle will not starTt.h is discourages someone
from randomly trying different keys with different resistor
pellets in an attempt to make a match.
The ignition key musbte clean and dry before it’s
inserted in the ignition or the engine may not Isf tathrte.
engine does not start and the SECURITY light comes
an, the key may be dirty or weTtu. rn the ignitiono ff.

Clean and dry the key. Wait about three minutes and try
again. The SECURITY light may remain on during this
time. If the starter still won’t work, and the key appears
to be clean and dry, wait about three minutes and try
another ignition key. At this time, you may also want to
check the fuse (see “Fuses and Circuit Breakers” in the
Index). If the starter won’t work with the other key, your
vehicle needs serviceI.f your vehicle does start, the first
ignition key may be faulty. See your Buick dealer or a
locksmith who can service the PASS-Ke1y1.
If you accidentally use a key that has a damaged or
missing resistor pellet, the starter won’t work. The
SECURITY light will flash. But you don’t have to wait
three minutes before trying another ignition key

See your Buick dealer or a locksmiwthn o can service
the PASS-Key I1 to have a new key made.
If you’re ever driving and the SECURITY light comes on,
you will be able to restart your enginife you turn it off.
Your PASS-Key 11 system, however, is not working
properly and must be serviced by your Buick dealer. Your
vehicle is not protected by the PASS-KeIyT system.
If you lose or damage a PASS-KeIy1 ignition key, see
your Buick dealer or a locksmith who can service
PASS-Key I1 to have a new key made

*Sorry for the typos, I just copied it out of the PDF version.

Not in order of importance:

1) get the real battery. These cars have pretty high drain while off (they are never really off) and so you need the capacity. THat's why the #&^$*@#^ thing is so BIG. Also, you don't need the acid fumes in the cabin.

2) IIRC there was a service bulletin about bad connectors at the fuel pump. A bad connector defies visual inspection.

3) I wonder if you might hava a problem with the ignition switch. You got a lot of keys on your ignition key ring? Come to think of it I replaced an ignition switch some months ago in a Buick Rendezvous for this identical problem. It had me and the mechanic (Doug) stumped except that the had replaced a number of TrailBlazer ignitions as part of a service bulletin and the Rendezvous used the same p/n for the switch. The ignition switch attaches to the back of the key receptacle. .

Albertj

i would say take to a buick dealer and pay that $100 fee to have it checked out.

Now that I think about it, I was using the left turn indicator and accellerating to pass when it shut off last time. I think that is usually keyswich related, correct? Would that "fit" my symtoms?

Hmmm, shouldn't really be related. The ignition switch is pretty isolated from the multifunction switch (turn signal switch). It's possible that something is loose inside the column, but I don't think it could affect the ignition switch in that way.

I think we're onto something here.

I think that although a dealer is not inexpensive, going to a dealer that has a mechanic that understands the steering column, telling him/her what happened, and letting them tear into it (to fix it) would not be a waste of time/money.

So - again - do you have al ot of other stuff on your ignitino key ring?

Albertj

There is nothing on the keyring but the ignition key, lock key and keyfob. I have had 2 trusted friends, both very experienced and knowledgeable techs, looking at it but have not been able to duplicate any symptoms when they are there. I will hopefully have more time to work on it and troubleshoot this weekend. I guess there's just no way to know for sure what's happpening until it happens again. Thanks again for the advise.

So I drove the car for today to see if I could get a failure. Installed proper battery before hand. Drove for around 45 minutes. Got it to fail under same conditions as last time. Driving 70 miles per hour, fuel just shut off. Was able to get it restarted by giving it some pedal. Got it home and shut it off then restarted. While it was running I unplugged the connector at the pump. It, of course, shut off. But, after reconnecting, the pump did not turn on to prime. Car would not start and acted EXACTLY like it did when it shut off last time and would not restart. Then I smacked the pump a coulpe times and eureka! It works again. Looks like a new pump is in my future. She's got 120K on the original so I suppose it's due. I am just glad to finally have the problem isolated. Thanks again and if the fuel pump ends up not solving my Riv troubles, then a stick of dynamite and a match will. See ya!

Good luck! Sure hope it's the pump! (sounds like it is going to be)

If it's not the pump don't give up all hope! Mine is one of the most reliable cars I've driven, interior electrical gremlins aside... (Power Windows)

I'm pretty sure you found the problem. My fuel pump did that at around 150K. The issue then was, at the same time my crank sensor failed (would quit working after car warmed up). It was tough to get that all sorted out.

Albertj

i feel for ya, man...
i hope it is the fuel pump........
dynamite is dangerous
good luck w it

there are sum threads on here detialing the process of replacing the fuel pump. i know this cause i have added my input on doing it. so check it out it wouldn't hurt.

i havent seen any threads for dynamite....
u should probably check out the one for the fuel pump........

New pump is in. Got the ac delco one (400 bucks...sheesh!) Got 50 plus miles of highway driving with no faults. I guess there's no "dynamite install how to" in me or my new favorite ride's near future. Thanks again for the help.

If your willing to wait a day or two to receive parts you need to look online or ebay for these parts to save yourself some $$$.
I bought a NEW AC Delco fuel pump with float level sensor and gasket/o-ring last month on EBay for 75.00 shipped.
Not intending to piss you off or anything but there are alternatives, just so you know.

Glad to hear it's up and running. Hope that was it! Enjoy!

Fingers crossed for you, CapriceGuy! Sounds like you have it tracked down though. Congrats - now it's time to enjoy the car!

So far, so good. 2 days of troublefree driving enjoyment. I have a few other questions, though. My power mirrors do not work with the switch and my seat memory does not work either. I did some searching and forund mention of the body control module. Where is this sucker? I checked the wiring at the switches and it looks fine. The right side mirror turns down when you put the car in reverse, so it physically works, I just can't adjust it. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I'll take a look at the wiring diagram and get back to you.
The BCM does not control mirrors or memory functions.
What year is your car ?
Try and fill out your sig, it would help us help you.

There is a lengthy troubleshooting guide that involves testing voltages at various connectors in Volume 1 Chapter 8 that I can not duplicate here.
I can copy, scan and email though.
Also, in chapter 8 under "Seats, Body and Accessories, there is the electrical schematic of outside mirrors and a unit called Memory Seat/Mirror Module. This puppy is the only thing that has commonality with both of your issues.
But, before replacing components I would probe and test voltages per troubleshooting guide.
It was a bit difficult finding these things as they are scattered and separated in the manual.
Let me know what you want to do.
I will copy and email this stuff if you want. send me your email address.
i also highly recommend you purchase a set of manuals for your car as it can greatly help with troubleshooting all problems. There are a lot of control modules all over these cars. I have found the factory Manuals to be invaluable.