FAQ: Shocks & Struts Options

Does any manufacturer sell ready mount / quick mount struts for our cars, meaning they don't need any assembly?

BMD wrote:

Does any manufacturer sell ready mount / quick mount struts for our cars, meaning they don't need any assembly?

not that I know of but contact an AutoZone they had the Gabriel ready-strut program last I checked. I think CarQuest may have the Monroe program.

Albertj

I checked the Gabriels struts online and after a vehicle search it said that they don't have a product for our vehicles, and we don't have an Autozone up here, but I will check Carquest. Thanks very much for the info.

I got my Gabriels from CarQuest but IIRC they dropped that program and now carry Monroes. When I got them they were Bonneville struts that the counterperson crossed to the Riv.

AutoZone will ship now (did not used to).

I got my KYBs from RockAuto.Com - I don't think they have the ready-struts though. I heard somewhere the KYBs cross to a Cadillac.

good luck

Albertj

So much useful info as always sir, thank you.

Napa sells monroe quick struts, not sure if you have any near you or not but thats the only parts store you can get them through around here.

Finally got around to installing the MA822 in the rear. No more trampoline while topping hills or hitting bumps. Feels much more like a newer car.

Just curious what you guys run on lowering springs (eibachs and such). My Regal quickly chewed through a set of GR-2s when it was on coilovers (what a joke) so I figured the struts on a Riv need to be way more stout given the extra weight.

Dont get sensa-tracs, ive had them for less than 6 months and have been lowered for less than 2 and theyre already makin noise

97 park ave wrote:

Dont get sensa-tracs, ive had them for less than 6 months and have been lowered for less than 2 and theyre already makin noise

About the shocks and lowering springs: Well, Tyler, using Sensa-Tracs with lowering springs is a problem. I mean, they fit and they don't *not* work, but they don't work as designed. The Monroe people, in order to tune the Sensa-Trac ride, put grooves in the shock tube. If you use lowering springs, the shock does not "know" and so will not operate as designed. This may be why it did not take long for the shocks to become noisy. Just a guess on my part. I do not think the rears (MA-822) use the position-sensitive strategy, just the fronts.

About the GR-2's on the Regal: it'd be nice to know details about what actually happened to your struts, Rick. And also I wonder how the spring rate on your coilovers compared to the stock rates -- just so I can learn more. Just for curiosity.

Other comment: I suspect, but don't really know for sure, that Gabriels would be the best shocks/struts to use with lowering springs. Their strategy for damping is to use variable valving in the piston, I understand. The result is that position of the shock does not matter. Some people do not like Gabriels for various reasons. I used to run a set on the fronts. They were stiffer than stock, which I liked. They did a fantastic job of damping, however, They soaked up the small undulations/highway seams well and they gave great control when pushed. The thing I did not like is that after a few years the tubes bulged and started seeping oil. They did not fail outright, but I got rid of them at that point and installed KYB GR-2s. (would have preferred Gas-A-Justs but they are N/A for the Riv) I bet the KYBs woud work fine too but I need to know what happened to Rick's Regal to understand if it was sample defects, installation issues, of a difference between what the GR2's were designed to do versus how they were used.

Happy Driving, folks...

Albert-the spring rate on my coilovers is quite a stark contrast than stock-they are harsh. The actual spring rate data on mine I do not know. If it helps, they are from HT Motorsports out of Michigan. Great company, btw. I feel the GR-2s just became tired quickly as they couldn't keep up with the springs. I took them out last week to replace with Koni race inserts (in stock w-body housings). All the old struts took a long time to recover when I put weight on them. They were also quite easy to push down. Startling was the driver side rear strut. When I pushed down on it, it never recovered. Just stayed in the housing. hahaha

The coilovers were purchased second-hand from another w-body owner in CT-saved me a lot of $$. I think they might have about 20,000 on them currently. Neat suspension setup, btw. I highly recommend it to anyone who does not daily drive their car. Being able to change the ride height is fantastic and the Koni inserts allow me to adjust the firmness of the ride. The downside of them is they need to be cleaned/re-greased frequently if you drive them in any sort of weather (as dirt and junk gets up in them and doesn't allow them to perform fluidly). As they get dirty, they begin to squeak and bind. The process of cleaning them can get quite cumbersome.

If you are on stock springs, GR-2s are a good replacement to stock but on lowering springs I'd be weary. W-body guys are combining Eibachs, SSC, BRG and other lowering springs with KYB AGXs with good success. I don't think KYB offers the AGX strut for the Riv application, right? So if I ever get Eibachs for this car, sounds like Gabriels are the way to go.

Thanks for the info guys.

Yea it sounds like im going to have to give the gabriels a shot too. My other idea was to get KYBs and have a machine shop take around 3/4" off of the strut rod and re-thread. If im thinking correctly this will put the strut back in its sweet spot with lowering springs.

That's an interesting theory Tyler. If you go that route, let us know how it turns out.

I'd personally go for the Gabriels struts though unless they are a lot more $$

The thing I don't understand is I'm running OEM springs from 1997, which are undoubtedly sagging by now (my front end looks like it's lowered to me). The car has 225k miles on these springs, and I just took a pair of KYBs off the front end, installed in 2005 with have approx 150k miles on them, and they're still very usable, I just thought it was time. If ride level has something to do with KYBs failing, then why are mine doing just fine after so many miles?

I don't think it's ride height Aaron. Granted, if someone were to cut stock springs significantly, it would probably be detrimental to the strut and the ride in general. To me, it seems to be stiffer springs that do the struts in. Eibachs are pretty harsh springs in w-body application. I don't know how they translate on Rivs. A stock spring, shouldn't chew through GR-2s like other lowering springs would even if they are sagging. However, I have to admit that I've read of GR-2s failing in even stock replacement suspensions on w-bodies. I'm sure KYB has addressed this by now so going forward this shouldn't be an issue.

http://www.westshorefabricators.com/WBody/Coilovers_Stage3.htm

Just an FYI.. These are essentially what I have in the Regal. I'm not 100% sure what the spring rate is on these. Might ask HT if they can get that info.

AA wrote:

The thing I don't understand is I'm running OEM springs from 1997, which are undoubtedly sagging by now (my front end looks like it's lowered to me). The car has 225k miles on these springs, and I just took a pair of KYBs off the front end, installed in 2005 with have approx 150k miles on them, and they're still very usable, I just thought it was time. If ride level has something to do with KYBs failing, then why are mine doing just fine after so many miles?

Most replacement struts/shocks assume the suspension is sagging somewhat with age, and the KYB's are not position sensitive like the Monroes. This was why I asked Rick to post details. IF I get what he posted, his experiences were with GR-2s and coilovers on a Regal, not with a stock suspension on a Riv. I figure the high spring rate on the coilovers overwhelmed the valving on the KYBs he used, and I suspect the PO of the coilovers knew that when he sold them to Rick but did not mention it for whatever reason. His results would likely be different if he used struts tuned for the higher rates, I suppose.

As for me I'm just unhappy that the KYB rears have vanished from rockauto.com for some reason.

Albertj

So it might be more about the spring rate than the ride height? I don't know that much about springs, but how exactly would a higher spring rate cause a strut to fail?

AA wrote:

So it might be more about the spring rate than the ride height? I don't know that much about springs, but how exactly would a higher spring rate cause a strut to fail?

Strut valving damps movement in both directions according to the valving. Higher spring rate rebounds faster. Strut designer was *not* expecting that.

I bet the adjustable Koni's would be a better choice for cartridge for those struts.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

AA wrote:

So it might be more about the spring rate than the ride height? I don't know that much about springs, but how exactly would a higher spring rate cause a strut to fail?

Strut valving damps movement in both directions according to the valving. Higher spring rate rebounds faster. Strut designer was *not* expecting that.

Albertj

Exactly, not only is the strut rebound a lot faster from the higher spring rate, but its also happening at an inch below where it was designed to be.

I just measured my ride height at 28 3/8" from ground to underside of fender trim, measuring through the front axle. This is with 245-45-18 tires inflated to 45 PSI. If anyone with lowering springs wants to compare findings, I'd like to know how much difference there is.

It might have to be another riv with 18s and eibachs for a real comparison, my park avenue might sit a bit different and i also have 20s.
Ill measure it with my 16s before they come off and then with the 20s but im not sure if it will help.

AA wrote:

I just measured my ride height at 28 3/8" from ground to underside of fender trim, measuring through the front axle. This is with 245-45-18 tires inflated to 45 PSI. If anyone with lowering springs wants to compare findings, I'd like to know how much difference there is.

strongly suggest you measure from bottom lip of rim straight up to the fender trim. That takes the tires out and will - well, should be -- same for similar equipped (any car w/ 18" rims and Eibachs) car.

Here is some trivia/perspective for you...

When I reset the suspension on my Lincoln ('95 Continental) using the factory scan tool (New Generation Star) that is the measurement point used -- rim lip to fender opening, straight up from lowest point on rim thru dead center of wheel hub (the Lincoln bombsight "+" is centered there so no guessing or disassembly required) . I asked a mechanic about that, why not measure from the ground?. Turns out the reason to use the bottom of wheel lip and not the ground is it takes out tire effects (is the car parked on the point where belts overlap? If so you'll be a few millimeters proud) and other measurement variation. And yes, the ride height on the Lincoln can be set to the millimeter. So the tire's road force variation would matter in that measurement.

Here is a little more - Because the air springs set the height you can "slam" the car in a couple minutes using the scan tool - and the computer will lower the ride height even further if you want (another 1/2" or 1") when the car is steady cruising 40 MPH or faster to improve gas mileage, and automatically raise it back to "city trim" if the suspension moves more than a certain amount per unit time (1/10 of second or some such is the unit) or you stop-and-go at city speeds for a mile or so. So yeah a patched section of highway will turn the compressor on and puff up the springs to city height. The Hall sensors at the control arms are that sensitive... if you are still curious about the Lincoln PM me. The point for the Riv is it'd be a good idea to measure from the rim not the ground and thru the middle of the "R"

Albertj

I know how you guys like your KYB products but.....what would you recommend for strut mounts given the following information?

KYB SM5286- $66.98 w/ 1 year warranty

or

Duralast 142411- $77.99 w/ Lifetime warranty


The warranty is kind of pushing me to the Duralast but I wanted to ask first.

Haven't heard of anyone here running Duralast. What does their "lifetime" warranty cover? Surely not normal wear and tear?