| what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors | |
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+7charlieRobinson whit2285 BillBoost37 deekster_caddy AA T Riley turtleman 11 posters |
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whit2285 Enthusiast
Name : Mike Age : 49 Location : Illinois Joined : 2007-12-20 Post Count : 127 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:22 pm | |
| Alright guys I have a 96, and just got new 42 injectors and am using) Pt to tune, I know you add .847 to each injector. On the96 it does it by all injectors so..
Do I just multiply .847 by 6 which is 5.082 and add that to my existing value , which is currently 207.17 msec/gram, ..
That would give me a total of 213.252 ..
Right or wrong | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:45 pm | |
| I thought the IFR values went down when going w/ larger injectors. So multiply your 207.17 flow rate by .847 (for 42.5 lb/hr injectors) = 175.47 g/msec. Wait for someone else to confirm, as I'm not 100% sure about the '96. _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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whit2285 Enthusiast
Name : Mike Age : 49 Location : Illinois Joined : 2007-12-20 Post Count : 127 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:25 pm | |
| I think your right, bigger injectors flow more fuel so you would lower it..I'm still going to wait for a response from someone that knows for sure...thanks | |
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deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31 Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:09 pm | |
| What AA said sounds right. I still have my DHP bin file but not the software. I'm downloading and will confirm for you ASAP. | |
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deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31 Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:31 pm | |
| Ahhh now I remember why I don't have DHP software anymore. I can't run .NET 1.2 on my current build. If you want my .bin file I'll email it to you, PM me with your address. | |
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whit2285 Enthusiast
Name : Mike Age : 49 Location : Illinois Joined : 2007-12-20 Post Count : 127 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:29 pm | |
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charlieRobinson Expert
Name : Charlie Age : 39 Location : Knoxville, TN Joined : 2011-05-17 Post Count : 3924 Merit : 31
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:01 pm | |
| - turtleman wrote:
HPTuners That's my table See if I can test your memory... Why do you have the values the same across the table and not ramped? Just curious. Starting to dig into injector table stuff. Does anyone else smell corn in the air? Have we confirmed that you simply multiply the IFR table by the percentage difference between stock and whatever injector poundage you are switching to? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:44 pm | |
| If the stock values weren't ramped, why would you ramp them with bigger injectors? _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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charlieRobinson Expert
Name : Charlie Age : 39 Location : Knoxville, TN Joined : 2011-05-17 Post Count : 3924 Merit : 31
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:49 pm | |
| - AA wrote:
- If the stock values weren't ramped, why would you ramp them with bigger injectors?
O..? Do your stock values look the same? Cody's snapshot is a stock table? Mine are ramped from 37.468@0 to 38.415@100 | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:59 am | |
| Mine are basically flat, sloping slightly in the opposite direction:
kPa 00 = 37.95 g/sec kPa 10 = 37.51 g/sec kPa 20 = 37.00 g/sec kPa 30 = 36.17 g/sec kPa 40 = 36.00 g/sec kPa 50 = 36.00 g/sec kPa 60 = 36.00 g/sec kPa 70 = 36.00 g/sec kPa 80 = 36.00 g/sec kPa 90 = 35.67 g/sec kPa 100 = 35.50 g/sec
Stock values, according to DHP:
kPa 00 = 35.16 g/sec kPa 10 = 35.06 g/sec kPa 20 = 34.99 g/sec kPa 30 = 34.89 g/sec kPa 40 = 34.75 g/sec kPa 50 = 34.68 g/sec kPa 60 = 34.63 g/sec kPa 70 = 34.58 g/sec kPa 80 = 34.54 g/sec kPa 90 = 34.42 g/sec kPa 100 = 34.31 g/sec _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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kylan_13 Member
Name : dylan Location : livonia, michigan Joined : 2013-09-22 Post Count : 77 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:07 am | |
| interesting , my IFR values are also ramped like charlies. im starting to get curious about the little differences in the tune. I might compare my sisters Riviera to mine, to see what differences I can find. | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4315 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:27 am | |
| '96 and '97 Rivs have a flat Injector table. '98-'99 have ramped tables from the factory. I remember seeing this when we initially did SirPsychos ride. I opened up his file and went huh? My '97 is also the same way....flat. I'm not sure if they did this for fuel economy or what, but they did it... | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:59 am | |
| Interesting. Good info to know! (+) _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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matt270avian Expert
Name : Matt Age : 28 Location : Frederick, MD Joined : 2012-01-15 Post Count : 2681 Merit : 54
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:18 am | |
| I've noticed a slight need to ramp the tables to get the O2s where they need to be. On the stock tables my O2s would be in the mid-high 800s and now they're in the low-mid 900s. Still need a wideband to really narrow it down but this seems to be working well. | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:24 am | |
| I tuned using stock O2 values in the beginning using an AFC Mini 2.0. Wasn't exact, but the results were predictable. Got you in the general range for correct operation. It seemed the more time spent logging, the more accurate the O2 values were. _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24 Post Count : 4315 Merit : 185
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:25 am | |
| I finally figured it out! I have to use Paint on this comp..... Here's a stock '97 FI table (on the right). Here's a '98 table from my car (stock again on the right). | |
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turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:22 pm | |
| There's a theory that the table was intended to be flat but that it was later curved due to the fuel supply not keeping up perfectly at higher pressure, particularly on the lower budgeted fuel systems - w-body's, etc. Ideally that table would be flat since the fuel pressure reg handles that equilibrium. | |
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chitown_riv98 Fanatic
Name : Ruben Age : 43 Location : Illinois Joined : 2008-03-10 Post Count : 399 Merit : 4
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:56 pm | |
| Would I be able to run 42# injectors and 255 walbro onstock tune? | |
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charlieRobinson Expert
Name : Charlie Age : 39 Location : Knoxville, TN Joined : 2011-05-17 Post Count : 3924 Merit : 31
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:23 pm | |
| - chitown_riv98 wrote:
- Would I be able to run 42# injectors and 255 walbro onstock tune?
stock tune does not equal 42#ers also, what is your IDC? do you even need bigger injectors? | |
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matt270avian Expert
Name : Matt Age : 28 Location : Frederick, MD Joined : 2012-01-15 Post Count : 2681 Merit : 54
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:49 pm | |
| Some people say if you just run E85 on 42's with a stock tune it balances out. However, you're much better off getting a tuner before hand or have somebody install and tune for them. | |
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kylan_13 Member
Name : dylan Location : livonia, michigan Joined : 2013-09-22 Post Count : 77 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:48 am | |
| also I don't think that putting in a 255 lph pump in is much better than stock. when I look at a stock pump on rock auto it says; Minimum Free Flow Rate (gph) 55 Maximum Free Flow Rate (gph) 65 65gph equals 246 lph
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chitown_riv98 Fanatic
Name : Ruben Age : 43 Location : Illinois Joined : 2008-03-10 Post Count : 399 Merit : 4
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:19 am | |
| - kylan_13 wrote:
- also I don't think that putting in a 255 lph pump in is much better than stock.
when I look at a stock pump on rock auto it says; Minimum Free Flow Rate (gph) 55 Maximum Free Flow Rate (gph) 65 65gph equals 246 lph
That's some good info. I'm gonna verify and probably just go with ac delco then. I might just wait for the injectors until I upgrade to ported heads and 1.9 rockers or install em before my tune at zzp? Gotta pick up a tuner asap, if there's anyone near Chicago I'll pay for a tune! I'm gonna be paypaling you hopefully by the end of the week Matt. Just picked up 22mm sts rear sway bar. | |
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kylan_13 Member
Name : dylan Location : livonia, michigan Joined : 2013-09-22 Post Count : 77 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:43 am | |
| I am in Detroit Michigan. I've got HPT with unlimited 1998 Riviera tunes . so if your around I could try and help you out. or I could meet you around Kalamazoo when I go to visit my brother. let me know | |
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kylan_13 Member
Name : dylan Location : livonia, michigan Joined : 2013-09-22 Post Count : 77 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:05 pm | |
| o ya, if you decide to buy a tuner(which would be good if you plan to do more mods). I suggest getting the pro version of HPT, I didn't and I am kicking my self in the ass. you want the pro version so you can data log a wideband o2 sensor, plus any other 0-5volt signals. | |
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kylan_13 Member
Name : dylan Location : livonia, michigan Joined : 2013-09-22 Post Count : 77 Merit : 3
| Subject: Re: what tuning needs to be done to use 42# injectors Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:15 pm | |
| LOL one more thing I thought of. if you want a cheap hpt, you can buy a used basic version straight from hptuners.com. they have a bunch of them because people like me exchange the basic version for the pro version when we realize we need the better version. | |
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