FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions

I wouldn't be 99% sure about carbon build-up just because a bottom-end normally aspirated Nissan engine had that problem. My Riviera (same year and engine as yours) has 183k miles and no carbon build of that I'm aware of. Never had an upper engine clean, only the occasional Techron injector treatment.

You may want to look into a motorvac treatment

I'm 99% sure it's not a issue with the fuel system (ie pressure) or delivery. As for carbon build up, I believe it's that only because of the coller temps at night resulting in the potential hardening of carbon that has been built up and "softened" suring the day via higher temps in driving.

BTW, no loss of coolant. I haven't really delved into the problem because it's so minor.

In looking at Motorvac, I noticed that GM has a cleaner call GM Top End Cleaner. Anybody ever use it before?

Our members are fond of using Seafoam for the same purpose. I think the GM top end cleaner is probably better suited, but many here have used the Seafoam with positive results:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/care-maintenance-f8/write-up-seafoam-to-restore-lost-horsepower-t123.htm

Here's a follow up to the situation. I bought the GM top-end cleaner (both the throttle body spray and the liquid intake). Throttle body was not very useful since I couldn't keep the spray from dripping. May someone here has a suggestion.

Liquid cleaner proved to be very helpful. I did go throught the booster hose and it had to be added in stages since the car would cut out if the hose was not connected.

The after math of smoke and smell was pretty foul. After I added about 1/4 of the bottle, I would drain it down the hose, soak for 5-10 minutes, fire it up let it reach idle, and then give some revs to kick the crap out. Did this about 4 times.

In the end, after a solid 90 mph drive, the Riv runs awesome, has plenty of off the line speed and feels alot better.

Hope others find this useful.

I've never heard of a pour- or spray-in cleaner fixing a problem like you described. I suspect it will happen again, as you didn't fix the problem that caused this in the first place.

Glad to hear you got it running. Good luck!

Back in this same situation again!!

It's time for that damn side connect postiive terminal to go!

There is plenty of room to use the top terminals. I can't think of any reason why I can't splice on a traditional connector, but I'll ask you guys first just to be sure.

Hmm, I've been using side terminals on almost every car I've owned - starting with my '73 Buick LeSabre, right on through every other GM I have. No trouble with side terminals except one - once somebody else cross-threaded the terminal bolt on me.

There shouldn't be any corrosion there, if so you've got a big problem - battery vapors under the seat. You need to make sure your vent is clean and functional!!!

you may want to try converting the side terminals to top posts, you can get lead terminals at any auto parts, the will screw into the threads of the battery thus converting them to the top post style. (I think they are called charging posts) You then have to replace you cable ends with the top post clamp terminals.
Ive done this to a few different vehicles with no problems.

I would be very concerned about using top posts back there - you have to be concerned about someone sitting on the seat, no? Plus you need a battery with a proper vent, and that means the group # for our car, which is a side post. Anything that doesn't hook up to our vent will allow battery acid fumes in that whole compartment causing more corrosion issues and possibly more danger than you want inside your car. It MUST be vented!!!

I'm using an Optima. It doesn't need to be vented. It has top posts in addition to the side mount terminals.

I think the problem is the copper contact in the positive lead. Copper is going to tarnish, there's no way around it. I've cleaned it again and that fixed the problem again, for now. I'm obviously going to have this problem every few months unless I get that copper out of there.

If there is a concern about top posts touching any part of the seat once installed, you can get the adapters that screw into the side terminals, cut the ends of your cables and put regular post type terminal ends on and attach to the side of battery.
That's what woggy was talking about in the above post.
That will get rid of your copper issue.

Oh, that makes sense. Same battery but with side-to-top post adapters and redo the cable ends. Got it.

I don't think the top posts will touch the bottom of the seat, but remember, the Optima comes with top posts on it. If they're going to touch the seat frame, wouldn't they already be doing it? Granted I haven't had a 300 lber in the back.

The bottom of the seat is fiberglass anyway, how would it conduct electricity?

Depending on the length of your cables you may need to use the side posts anyway.

Hey Jack I've been thinking about your problem - it might NOT be the battery.

Please check the ground line from the starter to the frame.

If you have never checked-cleaned it I bet it's corroded bad.

IF so I suggest you make a replacement out of a stainless steel bolt. Drill out the old ground post (it will probably break when you attempt to disassemble and clean it to remove the ground cable that runs to it from the starter), use a tap to tap threads for a new SS bolt, not big oversize just one size up. IIRC a #8, about 2" or 2.5" long will do. . Get a couple nuts (one plain one locking) for the new bolt. Cut off head of new bolt; thread it into the frame where you tapped out the old ground - it is now a stud; screw the nonlocking bolt down on the stud (lock washer optional) until it binds up against the frame - wha-la you now have a new ground post. Clean off the starter terminal with a wire bruch and smear a little dielectric grease on it to slow down corrosion - then put the starter terminal on the stud and bolt the nonlocking bolt down over the terminal. Congratulate yourself.

Point is if the starter ground connection is not good things won't work right no matter how much you work the battery. I learned this the hard way a while back and installed a stainless ground stud on my riv so I would not have to think about the problem anymore.

Albertj

I've fixed the problem, it was the corrosion on the positive cable.

Good thinking though.

Good deal.
If you have not done so already perhaps you should spray your terminals with the anti corrosive battery terminal spray. Three good coats should do the trick. It might prevent this problem from reoccurring.

Bert

I used to use ordinary cheap ($1/can) green spray paint to do the anticorrosion trick. Have not had such a problem with the factory battery.



Albertj

The corrosion is on the factory positive terminal.

Wouldn't the paint act as an insulator?

ibmoses - Would it work on copper, or is it formulated for lead?

I found my bulb grease. Should have put it on while I had the battery out.

Jack the R wrote:

The corrosion is on the factory positive terminal.

Wouldn't the paint act as an insulator?

ibmoses - Would it work on copper, or is it formulated for lead?

I found my bulb grease. Should have put it on while I had the battery out.

I should have been much clearer.

First I clean the terminals off well, using a terminal brush, especially the contact areas. Then I reassemble the terminal. THEN I paint it with the green spray paint.

So you bet the paint acts as an insulator. It insulates air and moisture from the terminal. And if you have to jump start just wiggle the jump cable clips to get a connection and repaint later, it's not a problem.

I bet hairspray (the old fashioned lacquer kind like Final Net) would work, too.

Albertj

Jack the R wrote:

The corrosion is on the factory positive terminal.

Wouldn't the paint act as an insulator?

ibmoses - Would it work on copper, or is it formulated for lead?

I found my bulb grease. Should have put it on while I had the battery out.

Albertj has a good point(as usual). The corrosion should not be constantly reoccurring.
Post a few good pics of your battery location and perhaps several different sets of eyeballs can spot something that could be easily changed to help solve this trouble. Is there a metal brace across the battery between the terminals?

The spray coating should work on any automotive application. Just make sure everything is good and clean(no corrosion) and it should help prevent the corrosion from coming back.
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/03120/icn/20-437707/crc/05046.htm
Just get whatever brand they have at the parts store. I like NAPA(get the good stuff)
I have used brake cleaner to help loosen the corrosion up and get it cleaned off. Not sure if that would be wise on the Riv, the fumes are very noxious.

Bert

personaly when my battery acts up what i do,was taught me by an old time mechanic, i move the dabby doober..push on the doohikky and then the dopple wanger..and the wizbanger starts right up!

Doesn't copper always develop a patina? I don't think there's anything unusual here. It could be happening faster than you'd expect, but this is KY and the humidity is higher here than I've seen it anywhere else.

I googled around a couple of minutes and really came up with nothing concrete.

There is some info about the "safety valves" on the top of the battery. If the battery is overcharged they will open and allow gasses to escape. In your case I doubt overcharging would be a concern.
These safety valves on top of the battery look kind of like vents but they are not called vents.

How about some pics of your terminal end? I am curious now.

Perhaps you are correct in suspecting the "copper" terminal end. But then again the cables are made of copper wire...

When you have to clean the corrosion off to get the car restarted, can you literally see the corrosion on the surface where the terminal attaches to the battery?
Maybe get one of those little battery terminal cleaners and run the brush up inside the hole where the terminal bolt goes.

Maybe remove the battery and inspect very closely where the top is connected to the case. I did see some info where there was some leakage in that area that would be very difficult to see.

I apologize if I am just muddying the water, just trying to help. This problem must be frustrating as heck. It would bug me, bad.

Bert