96 Riv has fuel pressure and spark but WONT START

Did you try just unplugging the crank sensor?

BTW this happened to me and it turned out I had gotten a whole lot of water in my gas tank. It would run on the brake cleaner trick.

Do you have a timing light? See if there is spark from any of the cyls? Although IIRC it was very misleading in our testing.

deekster_caddy wrote:

Did you try just unplugging the crank sensor?

That's already been suggested and tried. Still no start.
Have recommended replacing the crank sensor a couple of times. He just wanted to try everything else possible first.

The fact that it tried to start or spit and sputtered is telling you there is spark.
Just that the timing is way off presumably because the crank sensor isn't sending any signal to the ICM (Ignition Control Unit).

Or the spitting and sputtering could have been because the cylinders are wet and some plugs aren't firing.

I took evryone's advice and replaced the crank sensor, the car still WILL NOT start! In the process of trying to get the bolt for the harmonic balancer out I started the rubber on fire (accidentally of course) while torching, so I will need to get a new balancer. I also replaced te spark plugs because the one's It had looked OLD very very old;.I damaged one of the metal tabs that are on the inside of the balancer, the ones that the crank sensor reads, maybe thats why it won't start? It tires but won't do it! I was also trying to start it without the SC belt on, could that be it? Either way, tomorrow I'm getting a new balancer and putting the belt on. If it doesnt start what do I do next? I've been driving my girlfriends car but she started school now so that's no longer an option. I NEED to gt the riv runing ASAP.

I wouldn't have started the paragraph off with "you took everyone's advice and it still doesn't start"
Of course it won't start with a tooth or two mangled on the interupter wheel and a melted harmonic balancer. What the heck were you doing.??
You don't use a torch on the balancer, you use a harmonic balancer puller.
Technically it will run without the SC belt but why would you try. Why not just hook everything up before trying to start it ???
Sounds like you got impatient and hacked the hell out of everything.
I don't recall anyone giving advice on melting the harmonic balancer, breaking a tooth off the wheel, etc.
I hope you get it all sorted out though and even though your in a rush you need to take your time and do it correctly.
There's an old adage "There's always enough time to do it right the second time"
Good Luck

I was simply saying that I tried what was reccomended and it did not work. Not trying to insult anybody or saying I do not appreciate the help. I had one heck of a time trying to get the bolt for the balancer out, impact wouldn't do it, i tried 3 different ones. I tried about everything I or anyone I knew thought of except using heat on the bolt. The torch worked great at getting the bolt out but like I said the rubber started burning. I have a new balancer waiting for me at my local napa that I will install first thing in the morning. I did not put the belts back on because I did not want to have to remove them again if something was wrong, and I had them out of the car so the torch wouldnt burn them. I have definately grown impatient but I do not believe I hacked the hell out of everything. Nor did I say anybody advised me to melt and damage my balancer, that's my own fault (not my proudest moment). I was just anxious to see if all the hassle has paid off. It will be all back together tomorrow and hopefully it starts!! I really appreciate everyone's help and input on the subject, I wouldn't of known what to look for and such if it wasnt for you guys, THANK YOU!

To remove the crank bolt just take a socket on a breaker bar, rest it against the A arm and bump the starter to crank the motor. the bolt will pop loose after one or 2 bumps. Also, that is a TTY bolt so you will have to get a new one. do not do like i did and use a whole tube of thread lock, it will not hold.
The car will start just fine without the s/c hooked up.

I would check the small ground on the passenger side frame rail, it is not too far forward of the firewall. I wouls also think about the possibility that the ignition module went if something shorted - BUT you really ought to test that following Rick's advice. If that ground is bad the ignition module might not operate right.

Albertj

Tried resting the breaker bar on the A arm and turning the key, it did not work! Like I said I tried everything and the torch is what finally did it.

Got everything back together and the car still won't start. Tries but just won't fire up! What do I do next? I cleaned all the grounds I saw and sprayed them with wd40. I double checked everything I did. I have no idea what to do now.

do you have injector pulse? yes or no

I tried brake cleaner in the LIM again and it ran. Then I hooked up a pressure gauge and when it primes I get 40-45psi but it then drops to 0 when the pump turns off. When it runs I get 35psi at the rail. Once the brake cleaner runs out the car dies. The fuel pump primes and stays on like it should, just low pressure. Replaced the fuel filter when the car first died, the pressure regulator looks fairly new and I dont see or smell any fuel leaks. I'm guessing my fuel pump is toast?

The fact that you see 40-45 psi tells me that your fuel pump is ok, good enough to keep the car running. Your issue is vats/security/electrical. Maybe the ignition switch? Does your security light stay on?

steve96 wrote:

I tried brake cleaner in the LIM again and it ran. Then I hooked up a pressure gauge and when it primes I get 40-45psi but it then drops to 0 when the pump turns off. When it runs I get 35psi at the rail. Once the brake cleaner runs out the car dies. The fuel pump primes and stays on like it should, just low pressure. Replaced the fuel filter when the car first died, the pressure regulator looks fairly new and I dont see or smell any fuel leaks. I'm guessing my fuel pump is toast?

Derek,
The fuel pressure should not drop to 0 psi that quickly.??? Have you seen this before?
And 35psi with engine and pump running is low, isn't it.?

Since it runs on brake cleaner that means I have a fuel issue, correct? I was told it should be at 50psi or so when running I think 35 is pretty low. If I hit the gas it dies right away.

steve96 wrote:

Since it runs on brake cleaner that means I have a fuel issue, correct? I was told it should be at 50psi or so when running I think 35 is pretty low. If I hit the gas it dies right away.

I'd have to look back at the 'theory of operation' of the VATS, read thru that once solving a problem I had a while back -- but admittedly I just don't recall. That is, I don't remember whether it cuts off fuel or ignition (or both). If it cuts off fuel and not ignition, then sure, putting starter spray in a vacuum line will make it run.

If I were you and I had a little time on my hands I would check the wiring to the fuel pump, at the fuel pump. There should be an access plate in the trunk, under the carpet on the passenger side pretty close to the back seatback. WOnder if you ahve a corroded connection that is getting more resistive as it's used. That is when it's cold it's OK but run electricity thru it for a while and it heats up, becoming resistive and reducing current to the fuel pump motor... in turn the motor slows down and fuel pressure drops. The corrosion happens because dirt and poisture accumulate up there and have nowhere to go.

AAAAAAH.... maybe, maybe not...

Albertj

I accidently forgot to connect my crank sensor, and the starter would not even turn over. But a wet one may act different

Ok. As of now: I have replaced the crank sensor, harmonic balancer (because I ruined mine) spark plugs, and fuel filter. It will not start and run on it's own, it has 40psi when the pump primes and 35-40 when cranking. If I spray brake cleaner in the LIM it starts up and has 35psi fuel pressure. I believe it should be more around 50, correct me if I'm wrong. It also dies right away if I touch the gas pedal. What would be causing the low fuel pressure? The traction off light was on when it was running, and the check engine light too. Before it started running bad that day (3 weeks ago now) the traction and abs lights were coming on and going off now and then after I went through the water but no check engine light. I'm lost as to what the problem is, any help would be greatly appreciated!

I had a similar problem. My traction control light off light was on, and I had P codes for the Mass Air Sensor and the cam pos sensor. I traced the wires back to the box next to the cruise control box, there a bolt that hold the 2 connectors together, and on the back side I found a few broken wires. I butt connected them together and the problem was solved.

I would say you are having the same problem. All of those wires to directly to the PCM. The wires are not good under the high heat, so they all become brittle and break now and then. So, first I would use a continuity tester to test the wires, or a test light to see if power is coming out of the wires, if not them you know a wire is broken.

So check that big connector for shorts and broken wires, if you fix them I would bet money all of the problems would go away!! Is your car a 96? If so PM me and I’ll give you my login and password to the online repair manual I found at AutoZone.com that’s how I found the color codes of the wires I was tracing.


I hope this helps, I typed out a better story, but then it erased before I could post, so I typed this in Word and copy and pasted it to the reply LOL

one thing that has just come to mind-did you check the injector fuse at the left side dash fusebox?

steve96 wrote:

I tried brake cleaner in the LIM again and it ran. Then I hooked up a pressure gauge and when it primes I get 40-45psi but it then drops to 0 when the pump turns off. When it runs I get 35psi at the rail. Once the brake cleaner runs out the car dies. The fuel pump primes and stays on like it should, just low pressure. Replaced the fuel filter when the car first died, the pressure regulator looks fairly new and I dont see or smell any fuel leaks. I'm guessing my fuel pump is toast?

Does the pump come on when you turn the key to "ON" position or does fuel pressure stay at 0 psi.?
I guess my question is when do you see it drop to 0 psi ? In your above statement it isn't clear to me.

35-45 PSI is normal during start-up and idle. You won't see higher numbers unless you read the fuel pressure under load, while you are driving, and WOT operation.

See this link: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/care-maintenance-f8/testing-fuel-pressure-spark-chasing-kr-t3352.htm

AA,
Can you offer ant advise from experience regarding his current problem.
Look at his last post. Thanks.

When I turn the key to the ON position the pump primes, this makes the fuel pressure go up to about 40 psi and then after that it drops to 0 I stead of holding pressure. The car has done this since I've had it but it seems the fuel pressure is lower now than before. I'm so lost as to what the problem is with my car right now!!

Do you have the FSM (factory service manual) for your 1996.?
If so, there is a troubleshooting guide for this problem that will lead you to the cause and repair.
Now that you are getting spark you can concentrate on the fuel issue.
The troubleshooting guide, from memory, has you test fuel pressures during different conditions, i.e., key on , key off, etc.
There is a issue with a check valve in the fuel pump housing that i remember, but I don't remember the whole process for evaluating the problem so I won't condemn the pump as it appears to be working to some degree. Just as well the pressure regulator is working to some degree but I don't know what's causing your pressure to drop to zero.
AND, your still only able to get it to run by spraying a combustible fluid into the intake manifold.
That would indicate there is still an electrical problem with some system such as VATS possibly but I don't know.
Again a copy of the FSM would allow you to properly diagnose this problem or someone on here that can either post a copy of the necessary pages or has had the same problem could tell you what to do next.
You can purchase online the All Data manual which would help you figure this out. At this point that's what i would do as you can get the info right now instead of waiting to buy a manual on Ebay.
Got to Alldatadiy.com, it is a subscription for one or more years for not a lot of money.
Also someone on here who already has a subscription may want to share there password with you and help that way.