EGR Blocking

So...has anyone here blocked the egr?(but a plate front of the egr valve so it wont let exhaust gasses recircle back to the engine again)
or tottaly removed it?

well...i changes intake gaskets and all others what had to be changed whit the work. and also buted a blockoff plate between egr. but still got the wire on the egr.

Now i have a service engine soon light on.
so i'm not sure...did it come cos of the egr blocking?, did i damage a lambda cencor on exhaust work, my new vacum lines are too soft and may get blocked?, the car itself runs good, truyed today, burned my summertires and just truyed out the sound of the new exhaust system.


also on burning my tires the traction controll off ligh came back on ...

your light will stay on forever.. or until you delete the EGR code from the PCM.. I'm not anywhere near pro at tuning.. But maybe someone could send you a PCM with updated shift points and the EGR code deleted and a few other things...

98riviera98 wrote:

your light will stay on forever.. or until you delete the EGR code from the PCM.. I'm not anywhere near pro at tuning.. But maybe someone could send you a PCM with updated shift points and the EGR code deleted and a few other things...

It's truth

I removed my EGR and blocked it all off a while ago. I forget the numbers but I could check but there are two EGR codes I had to deal with.

There is no useful gain to removing the EGR valve other than the weight savings and less clutter under the hood perhaps. You loose an average 1mpg with removing the EGR. The good thing is it keeps all the airways of the motor a little bit cleaner over a long time. I'm actually considering putting mine back on once I get my new setup done.

Side note: If you have a tuner and want to delete the EGR, do not disable the codes for the EGR. Leave them active and just set it up to not turn the MIL on. The only time you want to actaully disable the code is when you have to pass the emissions test. If you disable the code, though, the PCM will act like the EGR is there and since it's not, it will lean it out at random times of light throttle (when the EGR is programmed to recirculate) and give you some pretty serious KR. Since the PCM has a decay program for KR, it will also cause false KR with more throttle and it just looks messy on a log. If you leave the codes enabled in the PCM, it recognizes the EGR isn't there and you won't have part throttle KR problems.

turtleman wrote:

98riviera98 wrote:

your light will stay on forever.. or until you delete the EGR code from the PCM.. I'm not anywhere near pro at tuning.. But maybe someone could send you a PCM with updated shift points and the EGR code deleted and a few other things...

It's truth

I removed my EGR and blocked it all off a while ago. I forget the numbers but I could check but there are two EGR codes I had to deal with.

There is no useful gain to removing the EGR valve other than the weight savings and less clutter under the hood perhaps. You loose an average 1mpg with removing the EGR. The good thing is it keeps all the airways of the motor a little bit cleaner over a long time. I'm actually considering putting mine back on once I get my new setup done.

Side note: If you have a tuner and want to delete the EGR, do not disable the codes for the EGR. Leave them active and just set it up to not turn the MIL on. The only time you want to actaully disable the code is when you have to pass the emissions test. If you disable the code, though, the PCM will act like the EGR is there and since it's not, it will lean it out at random times of light throttle (when the EGR is programmed to recirculate) and give you some pretty serious KR. Since the PCM has a decay program for KR, it will also cause false KR with more throttle and it just looks messy on a log. If you leave the codes enabled in the PCM, it recognizes the EGR isn't there and you won't have part throttle KR problems.

P403 and P405

ohh....i did not know all the facts of it. just toght logicaly that leting exhaust gasses through engine again wont do anythign good, and also make the engine dirty again in intake and SC.

Just wondering how dos it help savign fuel then??...it may make the exhaust gasses 'safer' but...how it saves on fuel?..only on startup when lets the intake warm up faster?


well i think about it. maybe will take the plate off again.

Travis, I don't have a P0403 or P0405... weird
must be a '97 vs '98 thing?

I disabled the trouble codes as they came up for the EGR.
First the P0401 (exhaust gas recirc. flow insufficient)
Then P1406 (egr valve pintle position circuit)

Timo, the benefits of the EGR valve are more like side effects due to how it operates with the PCM's program. As a result of recirculating exhaust gas, you get things like a tiny bit of fuel reused and lower exhaust temps. I know we performance people don't care about it controlling NOx emissions but it's pretty well agreed to whom post on it that the EGR delete has a sacrifice of about 1mpg. I have not actually recorded it myself but I buy it.

if you bump up the timing a few degrees you should minimize the mpg loss caused by the EGR delete. I haven't checked in a long time, but IIRC the cam should have enough i/e overlap to provide reversion.

just one more thing....can anyone tell the good and bad sides of the egr?

as much as i logicaly can think
EGR will make the intake/SC dirty, also the cylinders and sparkplugs.
it will rise up intake temperatures.
as much as i can think it actualy should make the car take more gass cos the inleted fuel(/air mixture will have exhaust gasses mixed in. and wont explode as good?



the only good thing what i see is that it cleanes exhaust gasses better and will propely make the Cat live longer.

Timo,
You already know the negatives of running exhaust gas into your intake, but there are positives. Such as cooling the combustion chamber temperature and lower NOx. Oxides of Nitrogen (Smog). There are more technical writings available to read on-line. I just don't have all the links available to me right know.
If you don't have the software to shut off the MIL or Check Engine Light how will you know if something else is wrong with your engine.
If you can find someone over there that can delete your EGR light then go for it. Otherwise I recommend removing the block off plate and re-installing the EGR and just cleaning your intake and EGR ports on a regular basis.
Maybe someone else on here has another solution, IDK.

Rickw wrote:

Timo,
You already know the negatives of running exhaust gas into your intake, but there are positives. Such as cooling the combustion chamber temperature and lower NOX. Nitrides of Oxygen (Smog). There are more technical writings available to read on-line. I just don't have all the links available to me right know.
If you don't have the software to shut off the MIL or Check Engine Light how will you know if something else is wrong with your engine.
If you can find someone over there that can delete your EGR light then go for it. Otherwise I recommend removing the block off plate and re-installing the EGR and just cleaning your intake and EGR ports on a regular basis.
Maybe someone else on here has another solution, IDK.

He could have someone that ships him stuff on a daily basis.. ship him a pcm with the code deleted...

98riviera98 wrote:

He could have someone that ships him stuff on a daily basis.. ship him a pcm with the code deleted...

Well, step up to the plate and help a Brother in need.

Rickw wrote:

98riviera98 wrote:

He could have someone that ships him stuff on a daily basis.. ship him a pcm with the code deleted...

Well, step up to the plate and help a Brother in need.

I don't have a off-board set-up yet.

Well then, make a commitment right now, that you'll help him out as soon as you can.
It's that simple.
He doesn't have the resources over there that we have here. And just so you know, he has never asked for a freebie.

Travis,
Maybe I'm naive, but I honestly expected you would offer some help since you have more experience with re-programming PCM's than I do.
At least explain in technical terms what he can and cannot do.
Explain the effects on combustion that EGR produces and the effects on Air/Fuel ratio.........etc.

Rickw wrote:

Travis,
Maybe I'm naive, but I honestly expected you would offer some help since you have more experience with re-programming PCM's than I do.
At least explain in technical terms what he can and cannot do.
Explain the effects on combustion that EGR produces and the effects on Air/Fuel ratio.........etc.

Read post #2. He would need an Intense-Racing.com pcm.... I cannot tune a 96 As far as i know.

the only thing what the 'american car' shops repear stations have here is just the code readed....noone even knows anythign about a tuner...guess they just don't need it.
ohh just reminded me.
like 200meters of unos house is one guy who has a dyno/builds race engines and so on. he tunes cars everyday. will ask if he has one.

i have not taken the egr off. i have it still on. just have a plate between the egr and the connection. wire is still on egr tho.



Ohh and....do i need a diferent(programmeble) PCM for that? or can i just rebrogram my stock pcm?


but would be just perfect to own my own tuner...would help me alot. cos uno has a Bonneville SSEi and a dodge 3500, also hes ex wife has a bonneville SE.

Here in finland it costs 15euro everytime i let someone read my checkengine code..


atm don't have monney to spend on car tho
this fryday will just buy one higflow simons resonator and install it.(car is waaay to loud for me whitout it)...its been like 2 months in garage for works. want to get it together and go out to drive or the damn fuel starts to get ould in the tank lol....need to buy new winter tires tho...oldones got burnouted

how much do the tuners cost ? 300$?

Rick is right - EGR gasses help cool the combustion chambers. It sounds backwards but it's true. Leaving the EGR in place won't hurt performance. The only time you should delete the EGR is if you are running an intercooler and there is no hole through the IC core for the EGR passage.

I have an offboard if you really want to play Timo, but I'll need a spare '96 PCM to pre-program, and you'll need to get a good scanner...

deekster_caddy wrote:

Rick is right - EGR gasses help cool the combustion chambers. It sounds backwards but it's true. Leaving the EGR in place won't hurt performance. The only time you should delete the EGR is if you are running an intercooler and there is no hole through the IC core for the EGR passage.

I have an offboard if you really want to play Timo, but I'll need a spare '96 PCM to pre-program, and you'll need to get a good scanner...

Where did you get your offboard or is there a write-up on how to make one?

98riviera98 wrote:

deekster_caddy wrote:

Rick is right - EGR gasses help cool the combustion chambers. It sounds backwards but it's true. Leaving the EGR in place won't hurt performance. The only time you should delete the EGR is if you are running an intercooler and there is no hole through the IC core for the EGR passage.

I have an offboard if you really want to play Timo, but I'll need a spare '96 PCM to pre-program, and you'll need to get a good scanner...

Where did you get your offboard or is there a write-up on how to make one?

There are writeups somewhere. Somebody in my local club passed it my way because I seem to do more tuning than anybody else. It's basically a 5 v power supply from an old cordless phone charger and a couple of wires. You need an old wiring harness to chop up, you need to connect to a few pins on a spare PCM connector, and a few pins on an OBD-II connector, then you can plug your tuner into the OBD-II connector and it just works. I didn't make this one, but I can take a few pictures...

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_EGR-Comeback/A_110577/article.html[url]
The above link is a good article explaining how Egr affects fuel milage and emissions. The Egr is probably best left alone unless you have a specific reason to disable it, like the before mentioned Ic.
Some have modified the egr to improve milage over stock also.
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Tweaking-the-EGR-Part-2/A_110581/article.html[/url]

The above Links aren't working.
Too bad, I would have liked to have read what it has to say.

Its a car part now wrote:

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_EGR-Comeback/A_110577/article.html
The above link is a good article explaining how Egr affects fuel milage and emissions. The Egr is probably best left alone unless you have a specific reason to disable it, like the before mentioned Ic.
Some have modified the egr to improve milage over stock also.
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Tweaking-the-EGR-Part-2/A_110581/article.html

rick, these links should work.

Timo, I can't believe that I didn't see this thread originally, (oops) but I have to tell you 2 things...

Originally, when they were crude, vacuum-controlled devices, EGR valves were a disaster for engine performance. They were ONLY installed because the government wanted to reduce NOX (Nitrogen Oxide) emissions.

However, our modern EGR valves are accurate, electrically-adjustable and computer-controlled, and along with our knock-sensors they actually help maintain advanced spark and performance... "Cooling" is a bit misleading, but what they do is put inert gasses back into the intake so as to make the combustion top out at a cooler temperature, which avoids the production of NOX. This ALSO has the effect of reducing knock, so that the engines run with more spark advance, more of the time.

Obviously, they have gotten much more expensive as they have gotten more sophisticated, but I wouldn't dream of running without EGR now, especially on SC engines...

Agreed....only reason to do an EGR delete is for weight, and that's only if your building a drag car. No reason to rid the engine of it if you don't race it. I took mine off and temporarily blocked all the ports. Aside from the SES light, I had NO gains at all. One thing I did notice is the car got hotter faster at idle.

Abaddon wrote:

I had NO gains at all. One thing I did notice is the car got hotter faster at idle.

I can't imagine why. There shouldn't be any EGR at idle anyway...