Need help asap

Okay so today i drove my car quite a bit, and i came home to change for work, and when i went to leave again it sputtered and died just out of my driveway. I tried to restart it, i would nearly fire, but wouldnt start up. I had over a quarter of a tank, so i had a decent amount of gas. When the key is in the "ON" position I can hear my fuel pump running nice and loud. I recentely changed my plugs and wires. I tested the coil pack and its definitely getting spark. Would it be the fuel pump going out?

SCbuick010 wrote:

Okay so today i drove my car quite a bit, and i came home to change for work, and when i went to leave again it sputtered and died just out of my driveway. I tried to restart it, i would nearly fire, but wouldnt start up. I had over a quarter of a tank, so i had a decent amount of gas. When the key is in the "ON" position I can hear my fuel pump running nice and loud. I recentely changed my plugs and wires. I tested the coil pack and its definitely getting spark. Would it be the fuel pump going out?

Are you sure that's the fuel pump your hearing and not the Level Ride Compressor running.
Normally the compressor is much louder than the pump. The fuel pump should only come on for a few seconds after turning the key to the ON position and then it will shut off automatically.
Need to be sure of what your hearing.
Put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail when cold and have someone turn the key on and see what the gauge reads. That should be step one if you suspect fuel pump or fuel pressure problem. You can get a good gauge at the auto parts store for $30.00 if you don't have one.
It screws right onto a fitting on the front of the fuel rail. Very easy to get to and find.

yeah i think it was the Level Ride Compressor that i was hearing. My dad tested the pressue of the fuel pump, and it read almost zero

Ebay is your best bet price wise for a replacement pump assy.
Others on here have bought pumps from various auto parts stores for around $200.00.
Dealer is twice that I think.

Do a search on here for "Fuel Pump" or look in the "Write Up" section for fuel pump replacement.
You will find all the info you need for replacement and suggestions as to where to buy one.

You want to start by removing the carpet in the trunk and removing the access plate for the Pump and spray everything down with penetrating spray ahead of time. That area can be quite rusted depending on where you live.
Winter road salt gets caught up there and makes a mess.
just a heads up, and also buy a new, steel retaining ring for it and replace that with the pump. They are less than $10.00 and you'll be glad you did.

Yeah i was almost positive it was the fuel pump, thanks for the help by the way. I will probably by the pump tomorrow, and put it in by sunday. Sunday a bunch of car guys from the area are having a white car photoshoot with over 20 white cars. Theres gonna be a nitroused vette, 2 camaros, a bunch of hondas, couple subarus, an evo, and my car is supposed to be in there. I will be bummed if i miss out. The guy with the vette is a professional photographer.

Sounds cool. Hope the pump change goes well for you.
Just be easy with the old retaining ring while taking it off.
If it's heavily corroded that is. The tangs that it locks into are bonded into the plastic tank and if you break them off you'll be looking for another fuel tank and they are not easy to find used and they are either obsolete or extremely expensive to buy new.
Like i suggested, start lubing everything as soon as possible and keep spraying every day until you are ready to pull it apart.
Also, read up on the procedure to do it on here, there's a lot of good info and some horror stories from others that weren't careful with trying to remove it.
Good Luck

Oh boys, before you jump right to the worst-case scenario, let's be specific...

Does the electric motor noise occur for a few seconds as soon as the key is turned ON, or does it take more than 30 seconds before it occurs? The former is definitely the fuel pump, the latter is definitely the ELC compressor, and never the twain shall meet.


Also, if there is no fuel pump noise:

-What year?
-What engine? (Signature File...)
-What about fuses?
-What about relays?
-What about the FP speed control module, if it's supercharged?

Y'all seem in a right hurry to start digging into that there gas tank...

the noise occurs for about 30 seconds. My riv is a 1996 supercharged. well im pretty sure it is the fuel pump. I tested the fuel pump pressure and it read almost zero

Hmmm... that's sort of "none of the above".

If it starts as soon as you turn the key on, it should be the pump, but I've never heard of a pump running more than 5 seconds. I don't think my own primes for even 3 full seconds. On the other hand, if it runs that long, it gives you time to run around and stick your head under the back of the car. If you slide under, there's no mistaking the compressor behind the right wheel with the pump in the tank...

If it does turn out that the noise is the pump, and you have no pressure, than I guess you should start pulling the trunk apart. If it turns out that the noise is the compressor, then you should check the fuel pump fuse(s) and relay(s) under the back seat.

Eldo wrote:

Hmmm... that's sort of "none of the above".

If it starts as soon as you turn the key on, it should be the pump, but I've never heard of a pump running more than 5 seconds. I don't think my own primes for even 3 full seconds. On the other hand, if it runs that long, it gives you time to run around and stick your head under the back of the car. If you slide under, there's no mistaking the compressor behind the right wheel with the pump in the tank...

If it does turn out that the noise is the pump, and you have no pressure, than I guess you should start pulling the trunk apart. If it turns out that the noise is the compressor, then you should check the fuel pump fuse(s) and relay(s) under the back seat.

point being that if the noise is the level ride compressor (which is near the fuel pump) the reason you have no pressure is fuel pump is not running. The noise you describe sounds like that sir compresor, not like a fuel pump. Fuel pumps don't run very long at all at startup.

I think your point is you think the fuel pump is bad therefore it runs a long while then stops but does not build any fuel pressure. I think the responses are trying to tell you that because there is another device nearby the fuel pump that sounds similar you need to go look at fuses and relays because you will not be able to tell by sound alone.

if the fuel pump fuse and relay under back seat are good, question is, is the fuel pump intake blocked - and by the way, how much gas is in the tank? Please tell us.

Albertj

I agree with albert. It's worth checking the postive electrical lead to the fuel pump for volts before you buy a new pump. Could be an electrical issue upstream.

im pretty sure that he said he had a 1/4 tank in the first post. when i bought my car though it had a bad fuel level sensor and the gauge would go crazy around 1/4 tank. just for shits and giggles pour a few more gallons of gas into the tank and try starting it, if your fuel level sensor is bad 1/4 tank could mean way less.

^^^ Absolutely! That would surely explain a running pump and near zero fuel pressure.

i would definitely check that before replacing the whole unit, if you run your car on low gas a lot (under 1/4 tank) there is more potential for the fuel level sensor to fail. IMO depending on how long you have been driving with it like that you might have to replace the whole unit anyway because a running pump+no gas= dead pump FAST. if this has only happened just recently though i would definitely check that level sensor it will save you money and as aaron said, that is a good explanation to why there is no fuel pressure at the rail but you still here the pump running.
another way to possibly tell before tearing everything apart would be to remove the air suspension compressor relay (under the rear seat on my PA) to prevent it from running, this will not only confirm if what youre hearing might really be the compressor, but with the compressor noise out of the way you will be able to hear the pump that much better. keep in mind that a dry pump makes a lot more noise than a submerged pump, you might be able to tell if you just need some gas if the pump is making a bit more noise than usual.

Also, on our cars if you rn the pump below 1/4 tank a lot you're guaranteed to burn out the pump. Pump depends on fuel for its own cooling. Part fo the cooling is the fuel running thru pump. Rest of cooling is fuel the pump is immersed in.

Albertj

97 park ave wrote:

im pretty sure that he said he had a 1/4 tank in the first post. when i bought my car though it had a bad fuel level sensor and the gauge would go crazy around 1/4 tank. just for shits and giggles pour a few more gallons of gas into the tank and try starting it, if your fuel level sensor is bad 1/4 tank could mean way less.

True, the sending units are notorious. But as you say, they "go nuts" and run up to Full when they get to a certain level because the brushes lose contact with the board and the circuit goes open. I've never heard of one holding a 1/4-tank while the tank itself goes dry...

Hopefully, we'll soon know for sure which motor is running, and then we can check specifics.

Eldo wrote:

I've never heard of one holding a 1/4-tank while the tank itself goes dry...

i wasnt necessarily saying that it would happen at exactly a 1/4 tank with that particular issue, i was just stating what has happened to my car (when the gauge goes crazy) and what i have personally heard of and seen (the fuel gauge giving a false reading). what i was saying to the OP was the fact that his level sensor could have failed in such a way that it gives a false reading of how much gas is in the tank. if the sensor were to have failed in this way, it could read a 1/2 tank when you really have a 1/4 tank, then how much gas would you have when it reads a 1/4 tank?

no, my car never gets below a 1/4 tank, just for this reason. I put about 7 gallons of gas in it and it put it at 3/4 of a tank, but still nothing. I had someone crank it over white i lightly tapped the bottom of the tank, and it fired. I have been driving it all day today so far and it only died once, and it fired right back up. I might be able to keep her going for a few extra days as long as I keep it above 3/4 of a tank. That way the fuel pump wont have to work very hard, and the gas level is high enough to keep the pump cool. If at all possible I would like to get as much fuel in the tank as I can, and try to keep the pump submerged. Im just trying to buy some time, and get the money for the pump.

Be sure and check the wiring and ground to the pump.

97 park ave wrote:

Eldo wrote:

I've never heard of one holding a 1/4-tank while the tank itself goes dry...

i wasnt necessarily saying that it would happen at exactly a 1/4 tank with that particular issue, i was just stating what has happened to my car (when the gauge goes crazy)... if the sensor were to have failed in this way, it could read a 1/2 tank when you really have a 1/4 tank, then how much gas would you have when it reads a 1/4 tank?

And I was saying that I've never seen anyone post a "proportional defect" such as you're describing... It's always good until somewhere below about 1/3 of a tank, then it erratically shoots way up.

SCbuick010 wrote:

no, my car never gets below a 1/4 tank, just for this reason. I put about 7 gallons of gas in it and it put it at 3/4 of a tank, but still nothing. I had someone crank it over white i lightly tapped the bottom of the tank, and it fired.

AA wrote:

Be sure and check the wiring and ground to the pump.

AA is right, you might still get lucky with bad connections at the top of the tank.
Also, now that you have 3/4 on the gauge, go top it off and if it only takes another 4-5 gallons to fill the tank, we can settle the sender question...

Have you removed the carpet yet and started soaking the top of the tank with some penetrating spray.
If so, you have access to the wires and can check their condition as well.

Eldo wrote:

And I was saying that I've never seen anyone post a "proportional defect" such as you're describing...

and im telling you i HAVE heard of a fuel level sensor giving the wrong reading and have PERSONALLY witnessed it at the dealership.

Eldo wrote:

Also, now that you have 3/4 on the gauge, go top it off and if it only takes another 4-5 gallons to fill the tank, we can settle the sender question...

never said sender, i said fuel level sensor. and even filling it til the gauge says full doesnt mean anything if its getting a wrong reading, funny how his car is running now that he put gas in it...
like i said, 3/4 tank could mean 1/2 tank. 1/4 tank could mean none.

It wasn't the gas that started it up.. it was the light tapping!

97 park ave wrote:

Eldo wrote:

Also, now that you have 3/4 on the gauge, go top it off and if it only takes another 4-5 gallons to fill the tank, we can settle the sender question...

never said sender, i said fuel level sensor. and even filling it til the gauge says full doesnt mean anything if its getting a wrong reading, funny how his car is running now that he put gas in it...
like i said, 3/4 tank could mean 1/2 tank. 1/4 tank could mean none.

Dude, you're too quick to write before you read...

I said "top it off" and "fill the tank", not fill it till the gauge says Full...
Furthermore, HE said that adding the gas didn't get it started, banging on the bottom of the tank got it started.

Finally, what you call a "fuel level sensor" has been called a sending-unit, or fuel-sender, for decades.
If you don't believe me, go check the FSM schematic...

AA wrote:

It wasn't the gas that started it up.. it was the light tapping!

Thanks Aaron... I was still typing my last post when you sent that.