rear suspension camber issue/ question

Clean the air idle control valve. and take a look at the injectors after removing them(small things you can do in case you have to put her up for a warmer day) and inspect the injector filters. mrinjector.com sells a refurbish kit for $25 i think, that comes with new filters pintle caps and o-rings. this will help tremendously. i doubt if 95% of riv owners ever change those little filters that get so gummed up.

Here are some photos I took of my Riv, what do you think of ride height and camber?
https://s1099.photobucket.com/albums/g400/f1galen/? https://s1099.photobucket.com/albums/g400/f1galen/?https://s1099.photobucket.com/albums/g400/f1galen/?
I hope I did this correctly? Btw, I can use a few center caps(3) if anyone is parting with any.

Thanks Robo, I'll give that a try as well.

its an illusion. the only way a Riv can lose camber,is if something is bent or broken. INCREDIBLY bad and useless bushings can, maybe cause camber loos,but theay have to be so f....d to do that.

Yeah, they look ok to me. There is one picture though, that looks like the LR is messed up. This pic looks like it's totally toe'd in....

yeah..looks bent or something

Robo it appears you were spot on concerning the center carrier, I placed a floor jack under the carrier, when I jacked it up the negative camber was gone, that being the case, I've decided to restore the ELC/ALC.
I'd like to know why others without an operable ELC/ALC system haven't experienced the issue I'm having?
Regarding the P0102 code, is the fact that the car runs fine when cold an indicator of a particular direction to remedy this issue? Thanks to all.

bmiceelf wrote:

Robo it appears you were spot on concerning the center carrier, I placed a floor jack under the carrier, when I jacked it up the negative camber was gone, that being the case, I've decided to restore the ELC/ALC.
I'd like to know why others without an operable ELC/ALC system haven't experienced the issue I'm having?
Regarding the P0102 code, is the fact that the car runs fine when cold an indicator of a particular direction to remedy this issue? Thanks to all.

You wrote:

that carrier is rusted where the exhaust tunnel attaches in particular, I'll upload photos shortly. The non adjustable links are quite rusty and it appears the bushings where they mount to the carrier are worn, shot, original!

and you now ask

I'd like to know why others without an operable ELC/ALC system haven't experienced the issue I'm having?

Answer: the other cars w/o operable AC most likely did not have a broken carrier or shot bushings.

On a Lincoln or other car with air springs, when a spring collapses the suspension falss to the bump stops. On the GM cars the air is an *assist* only. The rear metal coil springs hold the car up but they are very small and soft. Just about any load at all overloads them, but the ELC pumps up to make up the difference. 5 passengers at 200 lb each plus 250 lb luggage plus fuel = the 1500 lbs that ELC system is good for, very roughly speaking.

Someone else on this forum posted the old saying that a GM car will run bad longer than most cars will run at all. This "marvel" of suspension engineering is one reason why. And hey, you can repair it with hand tools.

Albertj

Point taken Albert, however rusty links aside the carrier rust on my car appears to be limited to the exhaust tunnel area which doesn't appear to impact the suspension relevent components IMHO. In any event it's good to know it won't cost an arm and leg to fix.

bmiceelf wrote:

Point taken Albert, however rusty links aside the carrier rust on my car appears to be limited to the exhaust tunnel area which doesn't appear to impact the suspension relevent components IMHO. In any event it's good to know it won't cost an arm and leg to fix.

OK

We had one list member who had front suspension "memory steer" problems, talked through all kinds of diagnostics and we asked him to post a picture... turned out the front strut bearings were in upside down, and it turns out that depending on whose you have they go in differently.

That said, you did post pictures. an under-car picture and a pic of the strut mount tops from inside the trunk might not have been a bad idea.

What do you need to do next to fix this? I'm kinda lost.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

bmiceelf wrote:

Point taken Albert, however rusty links aside the carrier rust on my car appears to be limited to the exhaust tunnel area which doesn't appear to impact the suspension relevent components IMHO. In any event it's good to know it won't cost an arm and leg to fix.

What do you need to do next to fix this? I'm kinda lost.

Albertj

Me too,
Is this a rear ride height issue (as mine was), or a worn bushing issue. Fixing my Automatic Level Control remedied my rear negative camber problem.

Camber/caster and toe, do not change regardless of the position of the T-carrier otherwise known as the ,REAR SUSPENSION SUPPORT ASSEMBLY. the alignment specs from the factory will remain the same whether the shocks are full or empty, whether the car has ELC disabled or enabled. Toe adjustment is done by way of the "cam bolt" if the Inner adjustment link bushing is disintegrated,link bent, then toe maladjustment is possible. If the control arm bushings are disintegrated toe adjustment can also be affected. Caster/camber is not affected by any means except for a bent hub.or control arm or bent RSSA. Extreme rust invasion to the RSSA could contribute to a alignment maladjustment.


@bmiceelf
double check the rear hub is completly seated against the control arm.if not,that could cause c/c problems

robotennis61 wrote:

Camber/caster and toe, do not change regardless of the position of the T-carrier otherwise known as the ,REAR SUSPENSION SUPPORT ASSEMBLY. the alignment specs from the factory will remain the same whether the shocks are full or empty, whether the car has ELC disabled or enabled. Toe adjustment is done by way of the "cam bolt" if the Inner adjustment link bushing is disintegrated,link bent, then toe maladjustment is possible. If the control arm bushings are disintegrated toe adjustment can also be affected. Caster/camber is not affected by any means except for a bent hub.or control arm or bent RSSA. Extreme rust invasion to the RSSA could contribute to a alignment maladjustment.


@bmiceelf
double check the rear hub is completly seated against the control arm.if not,that could cause c/c problems

Well,
We are going to have to agree to disagree. That is not what I observed on the alignment rack. I could change the camber by lifting the car on it's suspension. The change was small, but definitely visible. Camber change is engineered into suspension systems to help handling characteristics. Whether this was done on the rear of the Riviera, I don't know. But on my 1970 Buick GS, there is a camber change when you go from full compression to full extension on the front suspension. On compression, the camber goes positive, and that gives the car under steer characteristics in a hard turn. A popular A body modification, is to use B or F body spindles, which are taller. This changes the camber gain from positive to negative. Negative camber helps the tire to stand up straighter in a hard corner, and handling is vastly improved. The Riviera would seem to have negative camber gain on suspension compression. That would tend to make the rear tires stick better in a hard turn as the car leaned to the outside tire, and the suspension compressed on that side.

I'll post good pictures of the suspension on the weekend when I have the opportunity to do so. I'm also going to remove the air ride compressor and find a replacement at a local junk yard.
But first I need to sort out the P0102 issue. I've never taken the engine cover off yet.
So despite the weather I'll put new plugs, air filter, fuel filter(once I find it) clean the throttle body & MAF which appears new? Check vacuum lines, and maybe change SC oil. If that doesn't help I'll have to drive the schoolbus(RR)!

Something i just did that addresses many of the common running issues posted elsewhere is, I just replaced all my injector filters and surface cleaned them at the same time.Huge difference. anybody having rough idling or running issues should have their injectors cleaned and the filters replaced. Buy a set of junk yard injectors and have them sent out for service. You will see incredible results. FYI. For those who don't know where to buy a o-ring and filter kit,go to MRinjector.us
I'm not trying to generate business for this business,its just a place that was recommended to me ,and the guy sent me the right parts at a good price and he even threw in additional parts in case i f....d up! how bout that!


ps. if you're car has 100 thou or so on the odo,you need an injector service. fuel additives and anything else advertised to clean injectors like,on car injector service, don't do shit. if those minuscule filters don't get changed,nothing gets cleaned.

Hello again, time to get this Riv on the road now. I'd like to get this message out to Brandon Long......help! I noticed you have a very similar scenario with your car and have purchased and rehabbed a used rear cross member. While the one on my Riv is not rusted to the degree yours is, my cross member nearly hangs low enough to touch the ground when the air shocks are empty.
I hope you have done a write up on the rear cross member R&R, also any info regarding your successful location of a nice used part will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I'm happy to say I finally replaced my rear suspension. I bought rear crossmember including, control arms, trailing arms, rotors and leveling device off a "98 PA and installed complete assembly in driveway yesterday, I bought complete assembly locally for $37.00 which included taxes and warranty! Just need drivers side rear caliper and front wheel bearing, set of plugs and SC coupler/oil.
I cleaned mass airflow, replaced fuel filter also, runs better but service engine soon lite remains on. Will SES lite self extinguish?

bmiceelf wrote:

I cleaned mass airflow, replaced fuel filter also, runs better but service engine soon lite remains on. Will SES lite self extinguish?

Question for a different thread, but the answer is - it depends. Generally if the problem is solved, the light goes away after a few starts. But it all depends why the light is on in the first place.

As long as it's running okay, don't worry about the light until you get the rest of the car driveable, then you can drive it down to your local parts store and have them hook up a code scanner. OTOH basic code readers are pretty inexpensive these days...

Thanks, sorry for incorrect posting BTW, in any event original code was for mass air flow sensor; P1902 I believe?

robotennis61 wrote:

All for around a hundred bucks..what a deal!

So this replaces the Inner Adjustment Link and Outer Adjustment Link?

Just an update on the rear suspension issue I had with my Riv. I installed the complete rear suspension from the '98 P/A, In addition I swapped out the rear springs and sway bar with those from a '98 STS. I've read this will enhance roadability and control? In addition I replaced the stabilizer links up front and serviced the supercharger replacing the coupler and oil. I've yet to drive this car more than 20 total miles since buying it nearly a yr ago. I'm presently waiting for new oil cooler lines so I can begin using it as my dd.