My L67 swap from LesabreT.com

Hey guys and gals...I thought you all might be interested in my engine swap into my Lesabre T-type since the engine and trans are from my much-missed Riviera.




Hi all,

Never thought I'd get to this point, but it's time to start a swap thread of my own!

The grand plan is to take the engine and transmission I harvested from my '95 Riviera and make the T-type a mild powerhouse. I mainly want to get it in there smoothly and make everything happen, make it run correctly, and make sure it's reliable. Future modification plans will be a 2.6" pulley (down from a stock 2.85") and 1.8:1 rockers, with appropriate tuning of course. I've already started work on the engine now that the Riviera has gone to Buick Heaven ( ) . I've added 2 ranges cooler spark plugs (Autolite 104's) and a 180 degree thermostat, and have an adjustable vacuum modulator for the transmission on the way. I am also doing an A/C delete as no car I've personally owned has ever had working A/C anyway (except my new SSEi)...besides, windows down looks better .

Tonight I had nothing else to do so I took off the supercharger, alternator, fuel rail, and valve covers in preparation for paint! Going with the same theme I have on my LN3 right now - black and matching body color red.

Where the A/C used to be...


There it is! On the floor, probably never to be used again, along with old mounting hardware.


Fuel rail off...


Supercharger removed...



Now valve covers...


Ugh...dirty. I don't think the last set of valve cover gaskets were installed very well.


Masked off and ready to be cleaned and prepped for paint!


That's all for now - will report back when everything's painted tomorrow!

I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions through this process. Here's a good one to start: What axles am I going to need? I know that the 4t60E has a nearly identical casing and structure to the 440-t4 we all have. In theory, shouldn't my stock Lesabre axles fit fine? Should I opt for new ones just to be on the safe side? Any information is useful to me! Thanks!!

-Andrew Z
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Here's some more pictures of the finished paint job. Engine is still a filthy mess from the heads down, and the pulleys need painted, but I have plenty of time.

Everything on the table getting sanded/cleaned/prepped:


Primered with a heat-resistant primer, then first coat of a ruby red heat resistant base coat:


Semi-finished blower - car color-matching paint and heat resistant clearcoat applied:


While everything cured, I cleaned up some grease here and there and sorta kinda polished the thermostat housing. Anything is better than corroded aluminum I suppose.


Valve covers on:


'Charger and fuel rail on. Fuel lines are a bright silver, not white like the picture makes them look. They have a nice metallic to them.


Finished for now! I refinished a lot of little bits a pieces here and there, like the PCV valve cover, EGR valve, boost bypass actuator, things like that. Oh, and in case you're wondering, I have a set of already-red coils on the T-type currently so I'll just swap those over . The Riviera's old coils and module are on my sister's Reatta.


Thanks for looking! Any suggestions or tips are always welcome!

-Andrew Z
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I do definitely plan on leaving the cover off. It's just way too much with it on. I like the red matching and whatnot, but it's not going to work in this case-TOO much red. I'm just as much about aesthetics as I am mechanics . As far as the A/C goes, I'm glad you asked. That was my next update.

Making an expensive project a little cheaper, I'm recycling parts. Here's a front engine mount fresh off my spare '90 Bonneville engine (78,000 miles).


Bolted up to the Series 1 L67 block perfectly, with bolts from the Bonneville engine. The original A/C mount was a thicker aluminum and the bolts would have been too long for this mount. See the Torx bolt to the right of the water pump? Perfect fit as well.


This was the only issue. I bolted the compressor back up to the new mount and the rear bolt was too long since, again, the Riviera mount was thicker. This will be replaced with the one from my Lesabre.


Anyway, to the point of all this - much to my surprise, the original Riviera A/C compressor bolted up great and the belt lines up great! I thought I would need spacers but luckily, I simply don't. Yay!


New Bonneville heater core hoses. I have no idea which one is which yet, I was just screwing around.


New ADJUSTABLE vacuum modulator for the transmission. Can't wait to see how this thing performs! Going to start it out at about 70% pressure. Too bad I won't be driving this thing for a couple months still lol...


Shined up various parts of the alternator bracket and supercharger belt tensioner by hand. Only took my about 5 minutes. One of my favorite cleaning jobs so far! Wait until you see what I do with the transmission.



I don't know if I'll need to redo any of the wire loom. It's all in really good shape and yes, you're right...pretty clean. The only things I really need to do to the engine still are clean the transmission, work on the appearnce of the trans case, and change the oil pan gasket. Ah! I'm so excited.
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Alright small update. As it turns out, original Lesabre axles WILL fit the 4T60E trans. The splines are identical. My spare T-type axles fit in nice and stayed in tight. I had a suspicion that they would fit not problem, but just because I had those spare axles, I had to be sure .

Not much progress this week. I've been doing car detailings and working 10 hour days otherwise. The next step is to prepare a wiring harness from the Riviera's nest of wiring sitting in the one corner of the garage. I can't see it being that bad to make, but I'm still a little intimidated by hooking everything up right. Most of my concerns are getting the gauges to work. I need to get a hold of a Riviera wiring diagram!

Looks great!!! I'm so stoked for your swap sir.

If you ever wanted to upgrade blowers for something a little crazier, looks like the new Eaton 1320 TVS is a direct swap if you have an M62

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5607167&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

If this is true... there might be a huge upgrade for M62 guys on this site that would make the GenV M90 seem obsolete for us S2 folks.

DEMonte1997 wrote:

Looks great!!! I'm so stoked for your swap sir.

If you ever wanted to upgrade blowers for something a little crazier, looks like the new Eaton 1320 TVS is a direct swap if you have an M62

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5607167&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

If this is true... there might be a huge upgrade for M62 guys on this site that would make the GenV M90 seem obsolete for us S2 folks.

Just so everyone knows, the Eaton 1320 TVS is a direct swap for the CHEVY COBALT M62, which is a completely different pattern than our stock m62 pattern. Could still be done with an adapter plate though.


And awesome work Andrew! It will be neat to see how the lighter car hauls with the supercharged engine.

Karma wrote:

DEMonte1997 wrote:

If you ever wanted to upgrade blowers for something a little crazier, looks like the new Eaton 1320 TVS is a direct swap if you have an M62

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5607167&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

If this is true... there might be a huge upgrade for M62 guys on this site that would make the GenV M90 seem obsolete for us S2 folks.

Just so everyone knows, the Eaton 1320 TVS is a direct swap for the CHEVY COBALT M62, which is a completely different pattern than our stock m62 pattern. Could still be done with an adapter plate though.
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When I first saw that on CGP, I thought immediately of you. You could make an adapter for that so easily. perfect for S1

Andrew, good idea with the swap! What did you brighten up the tensioner bracket with?

I liked reading that M62 thread. I can't believe the things these engines are capable of sharing...amazing.

And thanks for the compliments guys! I knew this group could appreciate a project like this.

Karma - Oh, it'll haul . I think it'll be nice even before you do the porting...

Turtle - I actually just used 220, then 400, then 600 grit sandpaper! I was surprised how easy it was...like I said, it only took me about 5 minutes to do all those little areas, if that. Looks better in person...it's one of those things thats hard to get a picture of.

Another small update - went to the 'ol junkyard today and got '93 SSEi battery cables, some various clips and things, different radiator support pieces, and a correct for an L67 engine top radiator support.

Does anyone know if there are still labels available for the belt routing and vacuum diagrams? I'd like to stick those on my rad support to make it more accurate to the swap. Or, is there a safe way to take the old labels off my Riviera rad support?

Damn.... I saw hoping it would be a direct swap for Rivs.... Still, the adapter plate shouldn't be too bad and definitely well worth it.

Lookin sharp! Gotta love the S1, maybe less mods available but that leaves more room for creativity.

And that's what I like about it...the ability to be slightly more unique within the project rather than the Series II. I mean sure, the engine and trans were essentially free to me, but everyone would be EXPECTING the Series II

Also, as far as I know, this is an easy swap, mechanically .

This is an awesome swap man! I really like that you're making us Series 1 guys look cooler! The engine is looking great too! I thought you were going to delete your A/C compressor. I was thinking of deleting mine as well so i am curious of what you do.

Thanks!! Haha cooler? I certainly hope so!

As for the A/C delete, yes I was going to get rid of it. I actually decided against it once I found out that my delete pulley was offset when I bolted on the old Bonneville bracket. I found out the compressor itself fit fine, so I'm going to make it work . If you want to do the AC delete, I have a pulley for you .

Well i'm just saying most guys do a series 2 swap into other cars. It's cool to see a series 1 go into another car! I'm excited to watch and see this build!

Yeah exactly! And like I said, this is a bit easier to install mechanically, and I'm sure, electrically. At least a little.

I have a good question for you all. I know that the '97+ ignition coils are some of the best because of the higher spark output. My question is, is there a big difference between the set my Riviera came with ('95) and the couple sets from '92 and '93 that I have lying around? I won't be able to use the set the Riviera came with because they're on my sister's Reatta and well...you know how that goes. Anyway, are the early ones the same or similar enough to the '95 coils? Remember, when this set up is all said and done, the engine will probably be pushing 255 HP or so.

Thanks!

Z-type wrote:

Yeah exactly! And like I said, this is a bit easier to install mechanically, and I'm sure, electrically. At least a little.

I have a good question for you all. I know that the '97+ ignition coils are some of the best because of the higher spark output. My question is, is there a big difference between the set my Riviera came with ('95) and the couple sets from '92 and '93 that I have lying around? I won't be able to use the set the Riviera came with because they're on my sister's Reatta and well...you know how that goes. Anyway, are the early ones the same or similar enough to the '95 coils? Remember, when this set up is all said and done, the engine will probably be pushing 255 HP or so.

Thanks!

Hmmmm....

Specs on the Airtex coil for this application:

Resistance in Ohms:
Primary 200 Scale .2 - .7
Secondary 200 Scale 6.0k - 11.0k

Guide to coil testing:

http://airtexenginemanagement.com/pdf/W4.pdf

My question is do we think the best move is to assemble a set of coils that pretty much match in primary and secondary resistance, and what spec (higher or lower in range in each case) would be best? Also - my understanding is the test specs for the later coils are more like 0.5 - 0.9 ohms on the primary and 5000 - 8000 ohms on the secondary. I suspect but don't know that the difference is due to coil construction (some coils are wound with copper, the better ones, and some are not) and the coils thus would end up priced differently as a result if bought new. My guess is the aluminum ones are running 20-25 bucks and the copper ones are running 40-50. Except the OEM brand on the rockauto site claims to be copper. My further guess is the coils you really want are the Delco D576 or the Delphi GN10161. Because they are shown for a narrower application range than the others, my guess is they are sparking at the higher end of the acceptable range for design reasons. The Delco D555 covers the older apps that the other coils shown for our cars on the RockAuto site (such as the Airtex 5C1058). I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this. Like what's teh spec difference if any between the Delco D555 vs. the Delco D576?

Also FYI here is a site describing how to retrofit our cars' ignition system onto older GM engines - posted because it has info on how and why our ignitions work that you may find useful for trouble shooting and optimization, along with good pictures, charts and diagrams:

http://www.turbomalibu.com/faststart.htm

So finally the question for all of us is does it make any sense for Andrew to go to a pick-n-pull and get a fist full of good OE coils off any of the GM SC 3800 cars that may be there from say 1995-6 or later? They would match the D576. Or just to use the ones in his box? They would match the Delco D555?

For my money I'd get the D576's one way or another (new or used). Admittedly I am not always right. What are your Thoughts?

Albertj

PS: pontiacbonnevilleclub has a thread on this: http://pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=25614 - they say go to the junkyard and pull the coils off a junked SC 3800 engine...

Thanks for all the info Albert! I read through it a few times, read those articles, and decided to pick up some D576's from a friend. I think it'll be worth it. It should be a good item to have to ensure a strong spark under boost (I hope) and just to generally be a better acting coil.

Well, friends, I have a conundrum. The TPS is going bad on my Lesabre lol. I don't really want to swap it because I'll be taking the engine out soon, but I also need to ensure I make the trip to Columbus and back for the BPG Nationals. I should probably just go to the junk yard, but time is a factor. That's the only update I have on the project as of late.

Does anybody have a '95 shop manual they would loan me during the wiring phase of my project? I never did pick one up while I owned the Riv...

Once more, copied from LesabreT.com:


Ok time for a REAL update. Got back from the BPG Nationals last week as you all may have seen in another thread, so it's time to start pulling apart the car for cleaning, repair, and most importantly, another great Buick powerhouse.

Last picture of the car in one piece:


One of my favorite pictures so far:


Got all this apart in about...oh, half an hour? Didn't take long. I hate taking out the headlights, for the record. Those little springs on the back are irritating.


Little engine bits out, strut tower and core braces are removed.


Just a reference picture for installing an '89 washer fluid bottle.


Intake removed - going on my dad's '89 T-type. Sweet fenderwell setup if no one's seen it. I have a picture of it somewhere.


Here it is.



Had some friends over and my man Peter helped me get the hood off.


My dad and I picked at the car tonight and had the bumper and spoiler off as one piece in about 15 minutes. Most of that fumbling for sockets.


And here he is about to disconnect the transmission lines and pull the radiator out:



There was a little bit more progress I didn't get pictures of yet. Rad is out, the washer fluid bottle from my '89 parts car is installed except for a strut tower bolt I have to tap in. When I'm off Wednesday I expect to have the dash apart and wiring harness through the firewall. I may drain the trans fluid too.

All this considered, I only have 2 hours and 15 minutes of work into this and I'm way farther than I ever expected to be. I'm getting excited!

Another update from LesabreT.com:




Another update, more pictures!


Stuff! Spoiler/bumper, fans, etc...


Glamor shot!


'89 washer fluid bottle fully installed. Using the original wiring and some of the original tubing, but with my Riviera's fluid pump. I almost HAD to use the Riviera pump because of clearance issues with the battery and shape of the bottle. Now I have a ton of room between the bottle and the pulleys.


Looks like someone or something took up residence on top of the blower motor housing at one point.


All the driver's side wiring is labeled for later.


Here's the cradle that I'm going to use to move around engines and engine frames and whatnot. It's sturdier than it looks.


Here's the issue with the fender I mentioned. If it's not as rusty as I think it is, it should re-form just fine.


Header panel removed, just so I don't run the risk of damaging it.


After about 20 minutes of tinkering, the wiring harness for the engine came right out. Was much easier than I expected.


Just another glamor shot I suppose lol.




The dash all apart. I haven't decided if I'm going to take it apart any further. I may have to to do the wiring that I want, but no biggie.


And here are the ingredients I have to work with to make the engine run. I'm not excited about this at all lol.

I like that car,i had the same motor in my 88 bonnie,lots of fun in that car.When your all finished it will be well worth it!!!

Lookin good. I love the color!

Sweet build!

Thanks guys! I appreciate the compliments and glad you're enjoying the swap.

Flyineagle - I had an '88 SSE a few years ago and you're right, they are fun cars! But I like my T-type better...same car as the Bonneville, but two doors

Another update, more pictures (I apologize to the mods if I'm breaking the picture rule, but I'm a camera buff and get a little trigger happy). This update once again copied from LesabreT.com:

Success! Engine and trans/subframe are out of the car. I have to admit, this was so easy it's suspicious, and a bit scary. My car is in great shape, but I'm still completely taken aback at how smooth this went. I'll stop talking, more pictures!

Dad undoing the brakes so we don't have to immediately bleed and redo the brakes. That'll come later.


Used extra jack stands to hold the calipers and keep them from dangling by the brake lines.


Our rig for lifting the front of the car up. I agree, not safe at all lol. But extremely stable and effective. It also makes use of discarded fence posts.


The car is rising, the engine is falling.


Struts about 2" lower than they used to be.





Rolling it out on our homemade rolling frame! Worked perfectly and despite the weight of the assembly, it's very easy to move.


Out and free! Awaiting a few days when I can swap the engine and transmission.



Very happy with how this swap is going so far.

Thanks for looking!

really cool pics. its great to have a dad who gives a shit!

Agreed! Helps out a lot with mechanical knowledge as far as tools and whatnot, and I can teach him about crazy new FWD stuff at the same time . He's an old school big block Buick RWD guy, so a lot of things still apply, but some stuff is new to both of us.

Especially during this swap.

Wow...that's nice.How you people do it?...

I honestly don't know how I know most of the stuff I know Stan lol. A lot of it has to do with tinkering I'm sure, and a lot of reading. My dad is always saying how lucky I am to have the internet. Obviously, he never had it when he was doing engine work back in the 70's and 80's.


So as far as an update goes, I'll post more pictures later, but the Riv's old engine is installed on the Lesabre's frame, and the driver's side axle and hub are installed and ready to roll. However, I'm having a problem:

The passenger side axle is brand new, and fits the 4T60E just fine, except that it won't go in all the way with the lock ring on. Take the ring off, and it goes in nice and snug. Put it on, and you can't get the axle in whatsoever. I installed the old ring off of my Lesabre's old axle, to no avail. Same problem.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm stumped as to what to do. i can only do so much pushing on the axle before my back hurts lol.

check for compatability issues.if that checks out,call the manufacture of the axle and ask some questions,if that dont work,might have to have a groove machined to accept the snap ring further up the axle....