Write-Up: Front/Rear (Addco) Stabilizer/Sway Bar Installation

Could always cut the damn stock bar out...

Thought about it, I did. Too bad you can't just cut the new one and weld it it in!

No, it's really not that big of a deal, I promise.

I spoke with John at addco today. I sent him Aaron's photos the installed bar. He appologized and said it was terrible.

We came to 2 possible solutions to the issue at hand:
1) John proposed that if we gave him the measurements of the bracket, they could fab up plate and braket that would allow us to run the supplied bushings by eliminating the "dip" below the bracket

2) I proposed he send everyone a high durometer 30mm bushing from the FE3 suspension. I realize that there is a 2mm difference on the bushing but I do not think this would be an issue. John seems to prefer this option as they could just buy a few bushings + brackets and mail them directly to us.

I gave him p/n 25699778 (insulator, 30mmm) and 25699779 (bracket) so he could buy a bushing and a clamp to do his research. With my officer development courses, I have no time to fiddle around with the Riv until May.


What do you guys think would be the best solution?

#2 seems the best option.

AA wrote:

The links are brand new, and part of the kit. They appear to be good of quality.

I agree, Joe. It's a mental upgrade for now, or until I can tell a definite difference, or measure the improvement somehow. I'll assume that after the rear bar, new shocks, and the front strut brace, she'll be improved. Maybe hit the auto cross in summer to see what happens.

I may not be able to comment here without sounding like a wellspring of negativity on this topic, but it sounds like you would have gotten a much better improvement in handling, at less expense in $, effort, and frustration, from doing the F-250 shock mod. The rancho's aren't a mental improvement in any way. They rock, no question. And I'm saying that while riding all season tires that feel like they'll fold over before I reach the limits of the suspension (not the case before the ranchos, when it felt like - well I'm at a loss to describe how bad the handling felt).

It sounds like handling improvements, from best mods to worst, goes something like -

Wide Ovals
Nylon Bushings
Rancho shocks
Strut Tower Brace
Sway Bars or KYB struts
Moog strut mounts (I honestly can not tell any difference between these and the worn out stockers).

???STS springs/drop??? - I expect this will be near the top if the springs aren't softer (not likely right?)

I would agree somewhat, but my order would be:

1) Summer Performance Tires
2) STS Springs(?)
3) KYB Front Struts
4) Rancho Rear Shocks(?)
5) Strut Tower Brace(?)
6) Addco Front Stabi Bar
7) Addco Rear Stabi Bar(?)
8) Front Plastic Bushings(?)
9) Rear Plastic Bushings(?)

My thoughts hinge around the fact that our cars have a lot of weight up front. I think that stiffer springs would make a big improvement because even with the KYBs, the car still bounces more than I'd like. Don't know of any other way to fix that.

I'll put your Ranchos high on the list based on your claims, but imo the KYBs should have a more positive effect on handling because of the aforementioned weight distribution. I think just having fresh HD shocks of any type is going to make an improvement.

Could be wrong, but I have a really hard time believing the bushings eliminate roll more so than the bars themselves. The new front bar is massive. It weighs close to double what the old one did. More likely is that the effect of my bar isn't going to be as noticeable until I take care of the rear bar and shocks.

I would argue against the struts being placed so high. Granted I don't have KYB's - I'm working on the assumption that the difference between new Monroes and thoroughly shot OEM struts (also monroes?) is greater than the difference between new KYB and new Monroe. I'm underwhelmed by the handling improvement of my new struts. All I can say about them is, the car porpoises less through dips that used to have the Riv bouncing like a hydraulic car. But it still bounces (exactly the way you describe it) and the handling is not noticeably improved.

aa wrote:

but imo the KYBs should have a more positive effect on handling because of the aforementioned weight distribution.

The KYB's would have to be a helluva lot better than the Monroes for that to be true. Do you really feel like they made a huge improvement to your handling? My impression so far is, they're maybe 10-15% better than the Monroes. Not really noticeably better.

Maybe there's someone who did both Rancho's and KYB's. Is Venga22 around?

I agree that the springs are the only other way to reduce bounce up front. I'm leery of the stiffer ride though. I like the Riv for it's Rivi-ness. I'm at the edge of changing the character too much with the stiffness of the Rancho's and the noisy gutted airbox. I don't want sports car ride for this vehicle.

aa wrote:

Could be wrong, but I have a really hard time believing the bushings eliminate roll more so than the bars themselves.

All I can tell you is what camlifter told me, that the nylon bushings were a bigger improvement than the Rancho's. From your description of the front sway bar mod the Rancho's would seem to be a bigger improvement than the sway bar, so . . . I don't understand it either, but there it is.

It seems clear that the rubber at least is a giant weak link in the system, and the stock bars have much more to give than the rubber lets them. So if you upgrade to a bigger bar using the same rubber bushings - no improvement.

I'm a little concerned about alignment issues. This mopar book makes it sound like you can't just slap a sway bar on DIY style. I wish I hadn't even disconnected my stock bars to try installing camlifter's nylon bushings. It took me a month just to find someone who knew how cam bolts work, to align my struts.. I don't trust any of these local guys to know how to align a sway bar.

Aghhhh...I'm soo confused and I need to make a decision soon. I'm getting the Intrax 1.8" drop springs and the STB this week. I am also going to do the Addico sway bars eventually if the bushing issue ever gets worked out. (It does me no good to buy sway bars and have them sit in the garage forever.) My problem is I can't decide if I want the F250 conversion or go back with the air shocks? I want to improve handling but I don't want it to ride like a two ton truck either. If the sway bars and STB will drastically improve handling, I'll keep the air shocks for ride value. I don't want my car to ride like a Trans am over bumps. Any advice???

Get the F250 shocks. They won't make your car ride like a truck. They're adjustable rate, with 9 settings. On "3," my Riv rides a little stiffer but it isn't objectionable and there are 2 softer settings. I think you'll be happy on 3 though.

What would be sweet is having rims that let you reach through the spokes and adjust the shocks without pulling the tires, if you can afford to go that route.

I think you're in more danger of getting truck ride from the drop springs than the f250 shocks. Be sure to report on them when they're installed. I'm tempted to go for them myself since I'm sure they'll make a huge difference to the handling.

At this point I'd only get the sway bars if the forum is able to come together on a group buy for custom plastic bushings. Aaron tried to make that happen for the original bars, and it didn't, but perhaps results will be different this time.

Aaron, if the custom bushing idea can come back, I'd get in on it.

Stay tuned for developments regarding the bushings. I asked John at addco to supply us with energy suspension greasable poly bushings and clamps (9.5166). Since they are greasable, they will not squeak. They are not convex but could be used with a mounting plate. Personally, I would prefer this to a compromise OEM gm bushing. Let me know what you think.

Here are the stats:
Mounting Bracket to Sway Bar Centerline Height: 3/4 in.
Overall Sway Bar Bracket Height: 2 1/4 in.
Sway Bar Bracket Maximum Bolt Center to Center: 3 5/8 in.
Sway Bar Bracket Minimum Bolt Center to Center: 2 9/16 in.

If someone could measure the distance between the stock swaybar bracket bolts, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd do it myself, but am away from home.

Quote :

I am also going to do the Addico sway bars eventually if the bushing issue ever gets worked out.

You could always go junkyard shopping at a U-pull-it. Find an STS or seville with the FE3 suspension and yank the front and rear bars with the bushings. Front is 30mm rear is 22 (hollow).

Quote :

All I can tell you is what camlifter told me,
that the nylon bushings were a bigger improvement than the Rancho's.
From your description of the front sway bar mod the Rancho's would seem
to be a bigger improvement than the sway bar, so . . . I don't
understand it either, but there it is.

It seems clear that the
rubber at least is a giant weak link in the system, and the stock bars
have much more to give than the rubber lets them. So if you upgrade to
a bigger bar using the same rubber bushings - no improvement.

I'm
a little concerned about alignment issues. This mopar book makes it
sound like you can't just slap a sway bar on DIY style. I wish I hadn't
even disconnected my stock bars to try installing camlifter's nylon
bushings

Don't sweat it, you can install a swaybar yourself IIRC, you had both wheels up when you did it right? Just make sure you don't jack up only one side of the car and you'll be fine. By the way, the sophism used in that 1st paragraph is truly awesome. Please don't take it the wrong way, as I understand your concern: You are absolutely right when you say that a harder bushing is necessary to reap the maximum benifit from larger swaybars. The stock swaybar bushings are marginal at best. It's just I couldn't help but find the explanation funny


The eibach STS springs are 15-20 % stiffer than the original STS springs, which are already stiffer than the riviera's. I would like to do these only when I replace my shocks/struts (not soon). For the rear, I am considering replacing the air shock with a set of bilsteins and hooking the compressor up to a pair of airbags. I'll wait until they go to mess around with it though. Too stiff a spring on a soft shock is not the best way to go for ride or handling, IMO, nor is a mismatched set of front and rear shocks (or struts). If keeping stock shocks and struts, the ride may be less floaty
than stock, but may bounce a lot if the crappy Delco shocks aren't
solid enough to dampen the stiffer springs. Don't forget the stiffness of a bar (and spring) is proportional to its length. A shorter spring will naturally be stiffer.

I'm fresh back from a joy ride in the Riv. I can say that I'm not having any problems with the back end, it's in good shape. The front end does roll more than I'd like in the hardest corners, usually resulting in a chirping tire as I accelerate out of a corner. I would like to tighten up the front, but overall, as the car is right now, it has more capability than I can use on public roads. More than the seats are good for (preparing for a turn by grabbing on to the center console is probably not good steering technique). If I were on a track and had racing seats I'm sure I could press the suspension past its limits. On roads frequented by children/dogs/cows/tractors/deer, with no shoulder and usually a large drop off/drainage ditch only a couple feet away, I can't watch for hazards fast enough to use what the suspension can do.

The STB is a definite upgrade. The springs - I might go for the original STS springs. Would it be reasonable to just do them in the front? The back is handling fine, and I like the crouched-down-in-front look.

I like cars with a rake too! In your case I would not hesitate to install the eibach sts springs, since you changed your shocks in the back to better shocks and have recent front struts (I just don't want to take my struts apart twice ). At over 100$ PER spring from GM, it is cheaper to go with the eibach springs.
If gm still published their spring rates, it would be interesting to see if the OEM are noticeably firmer than the riviera's. Cadillac is known for using soft springs and stiff shocks on their vehicles to achieve their signature ride.

Were you over at regalgs when I was going through my alignment adventure? Frankly I'm dreading the alignment process far more than pulling the struts apart - and all I have to do is sit in the lobby and let someone else do the work!

edit --

If they can.

quote: "If someone could measure the distance between the stock swaybar bracket bolts, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd do it myself, but am away from home."

I wasn't able to measure the actual distance between bolts, but took some dimensions from the bracket holes. We can assume the bolts are close to 87.5 mm on-center:

excellent. I will relay this to Addco. Thanks Aaron

From John at addco

Quote :

RE: riviera front swaybar (02018) bushings
Jason, I have sent you
the parts today 4/19 let me know if everything works out because I need to
change the kit.

don't know WHAT was sent or if it was sent to everyone. Will update.

From John at addco

Quote :

Jason, I sent you the following….2-31
plates 2-75W Brackets 2-615W Bushings If this works I’ll send
everyone the same hardware.

swell... I guess installing the bar just moved up on my priority list. I hope these components will work.

Just an FYI, last Friday I receive TWO boxes from Addco, each containing a pair of OEM rubber bushings.

1 front and 1 rear ?

Nope, I got double shipped identical sets for the rear bar. I know why it happened... 'spose I should let them know, in case they are short a set. I had ordered the bars with our CC that is in my wife's name as primary, so they sent a set in her name, but also sent one addressed to me, I suppose from my contacts with them to address the shortage. You'd think they would have caught the duplication.

I've seen nothing for the front, other than the original set with the bar.

Fµck ups. I specifically requested that they not send me any parts with UPS and to only use USPS. I guess if you can't keep an updated vehicle list, you can't get shipping right either. I received some tiny package from addco today, delivered by UPS, and they want $40 in brokerage fees. That's more than the parts cost. I refused the package.

Now I have to contact them AGAIN and have them either give me money or send me free parts that are FREE.

I wish Brad or Addco would send me my rear bushings. UPS or USPS, doesn't matter to me...

Jason and Aaron, didn't either one of you receive OEM rubber rear bushings yet? WTF, I thought they were sending those out to everyone? I'd be happy to send one of you the 2nd set they sent me.

Jason, I'd be mad as hell too if that package showed up with fees due. Addco has to cover ALL costs to get you the right stuff. What a phukkkeddd up operation. I'll never buy another bar from them for any car I ever own.

Jack, if you do ever decide to order these bars, check with me first... if I still haven't installed them, I may just be willing to let them go, and give a discount off new price. To be totally honest, I don't have a big problem with how my car is handling these days, with new tires and the STB installed, and with GR2's coming it should get even better, as my struts look like old originals. I mostly have fun going fast in a straight line anyway.

I hope he doesn't send me OEM rubber bushings for a Riv, as they won't fit. Did you get OEMs for another model with bigger ID?

Quote :

Jack, if you do ever decide to order these bars,
check with me first... if I still haven't installed them, I may just be
willing to let them go, and give a discount off new price.

If that's directed at me Dave, I'll take them. Just let me know if/when you decide to part with them. Thanks.