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 Odd speakers in old cars.

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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptySun Sep 29, 2019 10:42 pm

Not a Riv question, but the 3rd gen Charger forum is even less active than Riviera Performance.  My problem is that the rear speaker cutouts are sized for a normal 6X9 on the passenger side, and 5X8 on the driver's side.  To make things worse, the screw pattern on the 5X8 is apparently different than what is currently made.  But I can't find modern 5X8 speakers anyway, only 5X7 or 5.25x?.  I'm not seeing an adapter to 5X8 either.  Need suggestions for buying speakers individually, perhaps refurbished, and finding the weird 5X8 size and mounting it.  Or perhaps mounting a 5X7 instead.  The good news is that I'm making a custom package tray from masonite, and I'd like a speaker that sits on top so perhaps I can mount a 5X7 to the masonite instead of the metal shelf.  

Any thoughts?
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DeepFrozen
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyMon Sep 30, 2019 4:20 am

My thoughts - just use that masonite adapter and mount anything you like (that will fit) - 5x7, 5 1/4, etc. And yes, I think you can mount a speaker to your adapter as long as adapter is firmly bolted to the metal. Threaded rivets, what a wonderful thing. I fell in love with them recently.
... I'm in the process of fitting 6.5" Morel Tempo Ultra 602 in Riviera doors and I hate that moron who decided that 5 1/4 is enough...
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyMon Sep 30, 2019 4:22 pm

5 1/4 in the doors is better than one 3x6(?) in the dash. Don't know how I'm going to handle that yet.

Is Masonite strong enough to bolt too? It's only 1/8 thick. Soaking the edge of the screw hole with super glue would toughen it up some.

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DeepFrozen
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyTue Oct 01, 2019 2:25 am

Jack the R wrote:
5 1/4 in the doors is better than one 3x6(?) in the dash.  Don't know how I'm going to handle that yet.  

3x6, LoL. I assume you want to maintain the original appearance of the interior? Are there ANY speakers in the doors?

Jack the R wrote:
Is Masonite strong enough to bolt too?  It's only 1/8 thick.  
Oh, 1/8 is not good... When I feel that there is not much thickness to bolt into, I use plywood behind the metal to create a "plywood-metal-my stuff" sandwich.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyTue Oct 01, 2019 9:43 am

Jack the R wrote:
5 1/4 in the doors is better than one 3x6(?) in the dash.  Don't know how I'm going to handle that yet.  

Is Masonite strong enough to bolt too?  It's only 1/8 thick.  Soaking the edge of the screw hole with super glue would toughen it up some.


Masonite's not bad but you can have edge fracture and material failure around holes for stuff such as mounting speakers. Consider using flat washers on both sides of the holes, securing the speakers with machine screws, to be a permanent fix/preventive for that little problem.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyTue Oct 01, 2019 5:01 pm

DeepFrozen wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
5 1/4 in the doors is better than one 3x6(?) in the dash.  Don't know how I'm going to handle that yet.  

3x6, LoL. I assume you want to maintain the original appearance of the interior? Are there ANY speakers in the doors?

Nope, no door speakers.  The car came with an enormous AM radio and the one highly elliptical speaker in the center of the dash.  I wonder if I've still got it - it may be more like 3X8.

I'll use the center dash speaker location no matter what I have to put in it.  I could use an adapter and two small speakers, or have the original rebuilt.  

DeepFrozen wrote:

Jack the R wrote:
Is Masonite strong enough to bolt too?  It's only 1/8 thick.  
Oh, 1/8 is not good... When I feel that there is not much thickness to bolt into, I use plywood behind the metal to create a "plywood-metal-my stuff" sandwich.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyWed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 pm

A fun look at what I've got to work with -

Odd speakers in old cars. Y63kllty

The extra holes around the driver's side 5X8 match the holes for the 6X9 on the passenger side.  Does it sound reasonable to make a spacer to clear the indent for the 5X8 and mount a 6X9 (hanging from the bottom of the package shelf) on the driver's side?

The front speaker can be rebuilt, but I wonder how good the sound quality will be.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyWed Oct 09, 2019 9:44 pm

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DeepFrozen
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 10, 2019 1:23 am

Jack the R wrote:
A fun look at what I've got to work with -

Wait a minute... This car has 3 speakers (two of them in the back), and they all are different? clap

But it still has round wheels, right?
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 10, 2019 1:37 am

Thanks! Much better than having the original rebuilt for $85, if the price hasn't gone up by now. Might have to trim some of the frame off to mount it? I'll show the Charger guys.

Have you seen 5 X 8 anywhere?

How do you feel about Boss as a brand?
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 10, 2019 1:51 am

DeepFrozen wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
A fun look at what I've got to work with -

Wait a minute... This car has 3 speakers (two of them in the back), and they all are different? clap

But it still has round wheels, right?

The car has the one rotted out 4X10 dash speaker and a gigantic AM head unit with a teeny little face.  It does have three holes for speakers, all of which are in fact a different size.

The rims I got it with are aftermarket 14" slotted mags, so it's possible the stock rims were not round.  lmfao

Perhaps you'll get a kick out of this modern replacement headunit - Link

$661 dollars but it looks like the original when installed.  

There's got to be a better way.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 10, 2019 9:45 am

Jack the R wrote:
Thanks!  Much better than having the original rebuilt for $85, if the price hasn't gone up by now.  Might have to trim some of the frame off to mount it?  I'll show the Charger guys.

Have you seen 5 X 8 anywhere?

How do you feel about Boss as a brand?

At some point you are going to figure out that you just need to do a web search for the odd-size speakers. They are not hard to get, but I'll give you a couple hints.

1) depending on the installation you may need to trim some of those mounting tabs off the speaker frames.  Sometimes the maker scores them so they snap off.  You can always take them off with a Dremel having a cutoff wheel.

2) The nominal size of the speaker is what you need to source.  From maker to maker there's a bit of variation in what a 3" round speaker actually measures. In other words, just get close.

Also see http://www.turnswitch.com/speakers.htm

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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 10, 2019 9:39 pm

I've been searching for 5X8's, what I get are 5X7's. A guy on the Charger forum came up with these 5X8's the only ones either of us have seen. I haven't been looking for 4X10's yet myself, but the other guy said he couldn't find them.

The SM Electro-tech site is interesting, and it'd be the way to go if I wanted to keep the stock head unit. I'm told it puts out a staggering 3 watts of power though, so even if it works, it's nothing you'd want except as a curiosity. At $85/hour I doubt SM could rebuild it for less than the price of the Year One unit. I'm thinking that controlling the speakers with a laptop via bluetooth might be the way to go - but I don't know anything about it yet. That means I need to find modern speakers in these odd sizes. Lots to think about/learn about.

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyFri Oct 11, 2019 3:13 am

In general - you can make your own mounting plates from Masonite and mount quality smaller speakers in the openings.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 17, 2019 2:19 am

Odd speakers in old cars. Y5nvscjf

I may have to try duplicating this kickpanel install.  It looks like the kickpanels are custom molded.  I have no idea how hard that is.  I'm seeing a consensus that 4X10 is an inherently bad sounding speaker size.  I'm not sure the stock mount has enough depth for a good speaker, but at any rate I'd have to take my whole dash out to install one, so it'd better be good.  The kickpanel install sounds like a better solution if molding a new one is doable.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 17, 2019 5:55 pm

Back in the day, kickpanel installs often were speakers in enclosures - you would split the enclosure, mount the base on the click panel and then mount the speaker on the base. Worked fine. A trick thing you could do if you could get it right was to port the speaker thru the base into the fender cavity if that cavity was enclosed.

If you search "kick panel speakers for 60s cars" you will find a large number of choices (and not just for 60s cars).

I had this exact speaker in a 1969 Rambler Rebel I had while in high school/college: https://www.ebay.com/i/332833880789

Modern version? See https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2-Pioneer-Car-Stereo-3way-Box-Speaker-Pair-replacement-surface-Mount-Jeep/202457186587.

Albertj
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 17, 2019 9:29 pm

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyThu Oct 17, 2019 11:23 pm

Jack the R wrote:
albertj wrote:

Modern version? See https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2-Pioneer-Car-Stereo-3way-Box-Speaker-Pair-replacement-surface-Mount-Jeep/202457186587.

Albertj

This link is broken.

It probably sold.

Search there for "surface mount car stereo speakers" or "Vintage surface mount car speakers" or some such. You'll find several like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneeer-TS-44-4-10cm-Car-Pod-Shelf-Speakers-Surface-mount-1-PAIR/161695730309

and some vintage ones. Alternatively try "surface mount boat stereo speakers" you will get additional results that may work.

Thinking about it I'd try hard-wiring in some auxiliary rechargeable smartphone speakers. Some of those little things especially the Altec Lansings sound pretty good and have decent bass if you mount them to an appropriate surface. I'd hardwire both the power and the audio. The non-bluetooth ones are cheaper, start there.

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DeepFrozen
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyYesterday at 2:04 am

Jack the R wrote:
albertj wrote:

Modern version? See https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2-Pioneer-Car-Stereo-3way-Box-Speaker-Pair-replacement-surface-Mount-Jeep/202457186587.

Albertj

This link is broken.

It's not broken, just remove that dot at the end of the link, which isn't part of the link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2-Pioneer-Car-Stereo-3way-Box-Speaker-Pair-replacement-surface-Mount-Jeep/202457186587
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyYesterday at 8:48 pm

That's not bad looking. I suppose they screw into the kick panels? I'd feel a little bad about doing that. I looked into making new fiberglass kickpanels, and it's not too difficult although I'd need a couple new wood working tools.

I'm debating whether I should bother with this now or do a "get it running" pass than do a "make it perfect" pass later. The dash cap is causing other problems, I was hoping to run the wires from a dash-mounted tach down through the center speaker location but that may not be possible if I can't get the speaker grill off. Unless I can individually run the wires through the grill holes. Not a great look, but better than having them come down the front of the dash? I don't know if it's even possible, but I'll find out. Mostly I'm thinking, if I can't make it perfect now I can at least get it running sooner.
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PostSubject: Re: Odd speakers in old cars.   Odd speakers in old cars. EmptyToday at 2:24 am

Jack the R wrote:
Odd speakers in old cars. Y5nvscjf

I may have to try duplicating this kickpanel install.  It looks like the kickpanels are custom molded.  I have no idea how hard that is.  I'm seeing a consensus that 4X10 is an inherently bad sounding speaker size.  I'm not sure the stock mount has enough depth for a good speaker, but at any rate I'd have to take my whole dash out to install one, so it'd better be good.  The kickpanel install sounds like a better solution if molding a new one is doable.

JR, Is this a pic of your Charger's interior or someone else's.???
Interior looks sweet.
On second thought I guess this isn't yours if your looking at the kick panel installation on this car.
I personally can't see the kick panel speaker install at all in this pic.

Regarding the speaker mounts your lucky that what you have hasn't been hacked up by a previous owner to fit different size speakers and a different radio in the dash. Back in the day I used to see many a mangled dash for install of a radio that didn't fit along with the speaker holes cut open to fit 6x9's or some other size.
Those guys had no clue what the car would be worth in the future though and I don't think they cared.
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