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 Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?

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albertj
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PostSubject: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:27 pm

My steering makes a sort of binding rumbling noise, sometimes, when turning the wheels nearly to lock one direction or the other. I tried changing PS fluid (to Valvoline synthetic) and that helped some (does it less and less harshly when it does). This is the '98 with Magnasteer.

Is this just 'end of life noise' or is there some maintenance or modification I overlooked? Please advise, and thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:43 pm

Mine's always done this since new. I've learned to cope, but I think there's a remedy in changing power steering hoses. I'm sure someone will chime in with more info.

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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:05 pm

It is quite common with GM's power steering. There was a TSB out on the subject:

Make : BUICK
Model : RIVIERA
Year : 1998
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.

Service Bulletin Num : 990232007
Date of Bulletin: SEP 01, 1999
NHTSA Item Number: 608376
Component: STEERING
Summary:
THIS BULLETIN ADDRESSES CONCERNS OF STEERING VIBRATION / SHUDDER / MOAN DURING PARKING MANEUVERS ON DRY PAVEMENT
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:11 pm

I've surprisingly seen very little of this symptom with my 98.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:16 pm

JAson - are you saying that I should:

- take the RIv to the dealer for the TSB fix
- the TSB says the nois is normal and I should fuggedaboudit
- GM sells some sort of gooseberry juice to put in the PS
- find the TSB and decide for myself

Please advise, thanks.

albertj
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1998rivman
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:18 pm

I remember seeing that TSB as well. I think it referred to replacing the high pressure hose. I have the same noise. I am also starting to seepage out of the rack end seal. Car only has 58k on it., damn!
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:40 pm

it did call for replacement of one of the hoses. If you're on good terms with your dealership, try to get a copy of the TSB and do it yourself if it is bothering you.
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99Rivman
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:47 pm

Jason wrote:
It is quite common with GM's power steering. There was a TSB out on the subject:

Make : BUICK
Model : RIVIERA
Year : 1998
Manufacturer : GENERAL MOTORS CORP.

Service Bulletin Num : 990232007
Date of Bulletin: SEP 01, 1999
NHTSA Item Number: 608376
Component: STEERING
Summary:
THIS BULLETIN ADDRESSES CONCERNS OF STEERING VIBRATION / SHUDDER / MOAN DURING PARKING MANEUVERS ON DRY PAVEMENT

It's not a warranty thing at this point but I'm sure the dealer would be more than happy to sell you the $200 plus worth of hoses and fix it for you.
I have the service bulletin here somewhere it lists all the part numbers to make the change. It has got something to do with changing the pressure by varying the size of the hose? I can't remember which year it is but one of them is completely rerouted on the subframe? I think it was the '95 that got both new hoses and rerouted and the '99 was a replacement pressure hose only.
It does it in both my '95 and my '99 to a point, but I couldn't see spending the money as it is very minor and only when turning when stopped.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:35 pm

OK Jason, and thank you for posting and answering.

I may be able to get the TSB from the dealer. But if it is not too much hassle Randall could you please post the numbers - they won't be on my fiche. I can then put the numbers into www.gmpartsdirect.com and see what the hoses will cost, or if they are not too exotic I can have the local carquest make them up (they have a high pressure hose swagelok fitting press and all that stuff, and actually do a pretty good job).

Rock Auto sells the ACDelco pressure hose for $40.- it is

ACDELCO Part # 36366500 {#19147755}
HOSE,P/S GR INL -

Is that the p/n on the TSB?

Once again thanks everyone. It's good to have these insights!

albertj
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99Rivman
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:51 pm

I finally found the service bulletin, looked all the places it should have been and couldn’t locate it, then found it somewhere it didn’t belong!
I got it backwards on the replacement hoses in my last post though. It is the '99 only that requires rerouting, new clips, and drilling new holes to mount them.

The bulletin I have is dated, Jan 31, 2001:
I only listed the Riviera since that is all the info we need, RIGHT! wink

Condition
Some customers may comment on a steering vibration, shudder or moan noise when steering during parking maneuvers on dry pavement.

Correction
Install a new power steering pressure (inlet) hose assembly on the following vehicles:
- 1995 – 98 Buick Riviera
- P/N 26059162 PS Pressure/Inlet Hyd Hose Assembly (with Magna Steer)
Install a new power steering pressure (inlet) and return (outlet) hose assembly on the following vehicles:
- 1999 Buick Riviera
- P/N 26079289 PS Pressure/Inlet Hyd Hose Assembly (with Magna Steer)
- P/N 25727230 PS Return/Outlet Hyd Hose Assembly (with Magna Steer)

The bulletin goes through diagnosis, repair, and warranty information. It says it should take .6 hours on the ‘95-‘98 and 1.1 hours on the ’99.
If you want more info let me know and I’ll try and scan it and send it to anyone interested.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:12 am

Thanks!
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:16 am

by the way #26059162 is $67.14+ at gmpartsdirect.com

albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:30 pm

I've had this issue with my 95 since I bought it with only 64K on it. Now with 96K it is slightly worse. I'll learned to live with it.
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PostSubject: Vibration on slow right turns   Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:29 pm

I can feel a little shudder/vibration when I make slow right turns in parking lot areas and whatnot. Not violet but something is amiss.

I'm thinking it may be a CV axle. Boots arent torn. Anyone had similar symptoms?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:36 pm

Update - okay, this isn't very funny, but I thought I should confess.

A while after I posted, I had the dealer flush the PS and fill with synthetic. Which made it quieter. Then just before Christmas I put in some Lucas 'power steering stop-leak, I guess 6 ounces or so, replacing some of the fluid. Largely because the stop leak was sitting around and the label said it quieted noisy systems... Stop leak was here because my son got an old Chrysler that had been sitting a while and he figured the Lucas fluid would puff up the seals (I told him don't bet on it just replace the pump and he said not so fast, I don't want to blow out the rack seals with the new pump so until I can do both this will have to do... he got the Chrysler another owner last week....)

Anyway - the Lucas fluid (at the time) did nothing. So I looked at my calendar to figure out when I could put in the TSB replacement PS hose. And realized there was no way I was gonna get to that until this summer at the earliest. Add to that that I took Randall's comment ("I couldn't see spending the money because it is very minor and only when stopped") seriously... and so I told myself 'fuggedaboudit.'

Well... the noise went away. And I had forgotten about it until seeing manofmany's post.

My guess it that the PS flush removed some crud and put in a more stable (synthetic) fluid; the Lucas is a very different viscosity than any PS fluid (it is about the consistency of dark amber honey at low room temperature). I suppose it took quite some time for it to mix completely with the new (very light) fluid.

So I confess to putting some 'goose juice' in my PS rack. But I am loath to post this as a fix: have your rack and pinion system flushed and refilled with synthetic fluid and then replace the synth you can suck with a turkey baster out of the pump reservoir with Lucas PS-repair-in-a-bottle and wait 6 months... Naaaaah I just don't wanna put my name on that.

Howeer if any of you have an explanation as to why this might have worked and if it might be repeatable, please post and let us know.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:56 pm

Hmm thanks Albert, I'm gonna give it a shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:25 pm

I was wondering if this is doable by yourself and if so where is the hose located, and how to do this? i have the studder problem too. and its super annoying and i want to get rid of it. the hose costs 74 on gm parts direct.
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:59 am

albertj wrote:
Update - okay, this isn't very funny, but I thought I should confess.

A while after I posted, I had the dealer flush the PS and fill with synthetic. Which made it quieter. Then just before Christmas I put in some Lucas 'power steering stop-leak, I guess 6 ounces or so, replacing some of the fluid. Largely because the stop leak was sitting around and the label said it quieted noisy systems... Stop leak was here because my son got an old Chrysler that had been sitting a while and he figured the Lucas fluid would puff up the seals (I told him don't bet on it just replace the pump and he said not so fast, I don't want to blow out the rack seals with the new pump so until I can do both this will have to do... he got the Chrysler another owner last week....)

Anyway - the Lucas fluid (at the time) did nothing. So I looked at my calendar to figure out when I could put in the TSB replacement PS hose. And realized there was no way I was gonna get to that until this summer at the earliest. Add to that that I took Randall's comment ("I couldn't see spending the money because it is very minor and only when stopped") seriously... and so I told myself 'fuggedaboudit.'

Well... the noise went away. And I had forgotten about it until seeing manofmany's post.

My guess it that the PS flush removed some crud and put in a more stable (synthetic) fluid; the Lucas is a very different viscosity than any PS fluid (it is about the consistency of dark amber honey at low room temperature). I suppose it took quite some time for it to mix completely with the new (very light) fluid.

So I confess to putting some 'goose juice' in my PS rack. But I am loath to post this as a fix: have your rack and pinion system flushed and refilled with synthetic fluid and then replace the synth you can suck with a turkey baster out of the pump reservoir with Lucas PS-repair-in-a-bottle and wait 6 months... Naaaaah I just don't wanna put my name on that.

Howeer if any of you have an explanation as to why this might have worked and if it might be repeatable, please post and let us know.

Albertj

I am planning on using a suction gun to remove the fluid from the resevoir(99Riv) and refill...then wait a few weeks and repeat this, maybe a few times to get as much new fluid in the system as possible without flushing it.

Just wanted some opinions on using the synthetic fluid-since I wont be removing all the fluid with the suction gun it will be a mixture of conventional and synthetic fluid. I am also considering some Lucas or other treatment in a small quantity.

Thanks for tips or opinions.

Bert
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:58 pm

I just removed as much fluid as I could from the reservoir and added as much Lucas as I could. The noise eventually went away.


Last edited by 1995 Riv on Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:53 pm

Again - anyone got any idea why that Lucas juice works?

Albertj
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:48 pm

I just went and got some fluid, Advance did not have synthetic so I got some conventional Valvoline PS fluid and some Lucas.

Maybe I will fill the resevoir with just the Lucas...

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:10 pm

I remember now I put in as much Lucas as I could drove it for a while then removed oil again and added the balance of bottle until gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:03 pm

Pulled the old fluid out of the resevoir, it looked farly dirty but not burnt. Looked like syrup

The new fluid is crystal clear and has the viscosity of mineral oil, say a 0W or 5W, very thin.

The Lucas is very thick stuff and has a viscosity like STP oil treatment, like at least 90W, perhaps 180W. Im skeered to totally fill the resevoir with the Lucas.

I used a mixture of approx. 2/3 PS fluid and 1/3 Lucas.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:55 pm

OK, one more time.

Anyone have any idea why this goose juice (Lucas) works?

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?   Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:54 pm

Has anyone actually replaced the hose themselves? I'm thinking about purchasing it and installing it.
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