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 FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info

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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:43 pm

I think it was Tire rack that had a good description and explanation of the different methods of manufacturing.
It helps with determining the quality of the rim that you may be looking at.
Such as:
Cast Aluminum = least expensive method of MFG and less strength.
Cast , Shot Peened = Better.
Cast Low Pressure = Better+
Cast High Pressure + much better and more expensive.
You get the picture.
And yes Forged Billet is a generally $1,000 - 2,000 and up per wheel. CNC'd to perfection.


Last edited by Rickw on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:47 pm

cold forged is the best in alumnium. ultra expensive and light.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:56 pm

i've heard of w-bodys using 5x114.3 rims just fine but please note that it is not recommended to use them under high hp applications and the wheels may not feel balanced on the car. (ie they balance fine on the machine, but when mounted on the car the .7mm difference allows movement or off center mounting.)
I too am looking for some lightweight 17 or 18's come tax time b/c i need tires anyways. I would like the push the cornering, braking and speed to new levels but i dont want to go I/C just yet.

So far i've found that the lighter the rim, the more expensive it will be. Also the racing rims scream "rice" to me, and that's not what i'm looking for. however at 17lbs for some 18's i may not car how they look lol
anyone know the stock 12 spoke 16's weight for comparison?

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:58 pm

i weighed the stockers @ 28lbs per. irc
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:19 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
i've heard of w-bodys using 5x114.3 rims just fine but please note that it is not recommended to use them under high hp applications and the wheels may not feel balanced on the car. (ie they balance fine on the machine, but when mounted on the car the .7mm difference allows movement or off center mounting.)
Even when using centering rings ???
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:30 pm

Read this, guys: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-11009.html

Cadillac people are having luck with the 5x114.3mm bolt pattern. Note the comments on bore diameter. Considering the added variety, I'm thinking it's worth a try.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:05 pm

I've had many local people tell me the 114.3's will work fine. And as you said it opens up so many more possibilities with the type and styles of rims.
I will still use a centering ring just because I've been dealing with vibrations for too long.
When i mount a new set of 18's in the spring i don't want any vibration anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:06 pm

Personally, I wouldn't use a rim knowingly that was anything but 5x115. I know it's only .8 mm off, not very much, but still, off is off. Hubcentric rims may eliminate the issues, so make sure they are available if you go the 5x114.3/5x4.5 route.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:09 pm

Yeah, I'm going to use the rings when I get mine, and NO ONE but will be putting them on except for me with my torque wrench and lots of TLC. If I get vibrations, I guess I'll craigslist whatever I get. Wheels tend to sell pretty well on there.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:20 pm

Or you can try the Hunter Radial Force balancer and you re-installing the wheels with proper torque.
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ewolfe0050
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:30 pm

My past two sets have been 114.3 rims. And they work fine even under strong side loads. The only problem with them is that you need to tighten then at 3 intervals to get the proper torque. The guys at a tire store usually just use an impact and the lugs will come loose quickly or they shear off lugs. My wheels came loose once and have had 3 lugs sheared off this way. If I go to a tire shop now I always loosen and re-torque when I get home.

I usually tighten while the wheels are off the ground (which helps it center better) to about 70ft/lbs then lower it to tighten around 85ft/lbs finally 100ft/lbs the second time around.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:33 pm

I use my battery powered drill at a low torque setting to put the lugs on and get the wheels centered, then torque to 50, 75 and final 100 ft/lbs.
I know that's being anal, but i have been chasing vibrations for years.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:41 pm

Thanks for the reassurance, Eric.

I always tighten by hand, then use torque wrench to cross-tighten to 75 lb-ft, then 100 lb-ft. Then I come back 100 miles later and tighten again to 100 lb-ft. With the new rims, I would be even more careful.

For everyone's info, I made an exact template of our wheel bolt pattern, accurate to .001 mm. Here is the pattern, with OEM wheel bolt holes shown in red, aftermarket 5x4.5" bolt pattern in blue:



The area in the yellow box is magnified below. In the detail, you can see the overlap. The inside of each ring represents the 12 mm lug, the outside of each ring represents the .515" bolt hole:


_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:20 pm

I think that pretty much proves given the normal tolerance of holes drilled in the wheels, that the 114.3 will be fine.
Just need to tighten and torque properly and you'll never know the difference.
And add the centering rings for extra insurance.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:07 am

Okay, I yield. I suppose that's within the tolerances of lug nuts etc.

Let us know how it works out AA!
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:36 am

I do understand your concern, deek. I wouldn't go with the 5x4.5" pattern, except the options are so limited in the 5x115mm size. The more I read about our size, the more I want to research the possibility of changing hubs!

For everyone's reference, here is a site that sells hub-centric rings (aluminum or plastic) for a reasonable cost ($25-35): http://www.1010tires.com/hubrings.asp

The bore dia of our hubs 70.3 mm.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:15 pm

Just a comment regarding the hub centering rings mentioned above. Make sure to measure them when you receive the order. Mine were supposed to fit the 72.62 mm bore diameter of my new wheels, but they felt loose, so I measured OD with a caliper at 72.05 mm, quite a bit off for a piece of turned aluminum dimensioned to 1/100 mm. They say 72.62 on the part.

The vendor mentioned above is being proactive so far, said they will measure a new set and ship out at no charge. I think it will be okay, but I wanted to give the heads-up to anyone ordering hub-centric rings: check 'em before mounting.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:32 pm

First vendor could not locate a correct set of aluminum rings, so I bought them from a seller on eBay, Discount Tire Direct. This order was near half the price and took 1/3 the time. Most importantly, the new rings are the correct size!

Here is a pic of the ring inserted. A correct fitment is tight, requiring you tap it in with a small hammer. The ring should press in flush with the hub mounting surface of the wheel:



They bolted up without any problems. I used a torque wrench to cross-tighten them at 3, 5, 10,15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 65, and 75 lb-ft. Maybe a overkill, but I wanted to give these rims every chance to be exactly centered.

With all 4 new wheels on, there is absolutely no vibration whatsoever. In fact, they ride smoother than my stock 5x115 wheels ever did. The guy at 1010Tires told me it wouldn't work, but I am quite happy with the result. Just use the hub centric rings, torque them on carefully, and 5x114.3 (5x4.5") bolt pattern wheels will work fine with 5x115 hubs.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:42 pm

AA wrote:
With all 4 new wheels on, there is absolutely no vibration whatsoever. In fact, they ride smoother than my stock 5x115 wheels ever did. The guy at 1010Tires told me it wouldn't work, but I am quite happy with the result. Just use the hub centric rings, torque them on carefully, and 5x114.3 (5x4.5") bolt pattern wheels will work fine with 5x115 hubs.
Thanks for the pics and info.
When you say you have absolutely NO vibration whatsoever, do you mean not any at all. That's a pretty strong statement to a guy that has chased even the smallest to the noticeable and back to small and still annoying vibration since I bought this car.
If you found the magic Bullet, Ill drive to you and buy this setup for twice what you paid for it, maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:45 pm

I meant no vibration introduced by the wheels & tires. There are still some evidences of a 200k mile car, but I did see less vibration in changing to these wheels, probably because 2 of the stock wheels have 20k miles on them since they were balanced.

With the new wheels, there are a bit more vibrations picked up from the road surface, but that's an entirely different thing altogether.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: need info on bolt pattern   Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:35 am

i know our rivs are 5x115 bolt pattern but im looking at a set of rims and bolt pattern is 5x114.3 and the guys says it will fit im just wondering if he is just trying to make the sale? any help would be amazing
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:19 am

They will fit. You need to purchase a set of hub-centric rings to match the wheels to our OEM hubs. What wheels are you looking at?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:21 am

I have 20" 5x114.3 wheels with the hub rings and have no issues at all. As AA stated you will need a set of hub rings.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:45 am

they are a 12 spoke high gloss black rims.. im looking at hub-centric rings which size do i need
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Wheel & Tire, Lug, Bolt Pattern, Offset, Center Bore Info   Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:54 am

You must know the bore diameter of the wheels you are buying. That's why I asked about your wheels.

I have an extra set of plastic rings (never used) that I would sell for a good price. They fit our OEM hubs, and will fit wheels with bore diameter 72.62 mm.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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