Odd starting problem

Here's a problem I've never seen before.

Car started fine - not instantly because it'd been sitting for a few weeks, but nothing that I thought was unusual. I drove it about 60 feet and shut it off. Came back a few minutes later and no start! The engine was cranking but nothing was happening. I tried a few times, popped the hood, couldn't see any trouble.

The car was on a slight incline so I pushed it down and tried again. It coughed and sputtered, but then it took and ran fine.

I drove it into town and back, up and down hills, started and stopped it a couple times. Same perfect performance as always.

WTF?!!

There's only two things I can think of -

- fuel pump starting to go

- I put some fuel preservative in after I drove last. I have no idea why this would be a problem, but it's the only unique thing about this incident.

When you crank do you leave the key in the 'on' position for a second to let the fuel pump prime? Just curious. It still should have started since the fuel system would have been pressurized anyhow.

Usually no-starts lead to something like the ignition switch. Any chance your key (chip) was wet or dirty?

deekster_caddy wrote:

When you crank do you leave the key in the 'on' position for a second to let the fuel pump prime?

I usually just crank it, so that would be a no.

deekster_caddy wrote:

Just curious. It still should have started since the fuel system would have been pressurized anyhow.

Well I remember from when I changed the fuel filter that it doesn't run for more than a half second with the fuel pump off.

It seems odd to me that, of all the times I tried I cranked it, it started after I pushed the car back to a level position. I can't think of why that would have an effect. If the pump's good, the incline won't matter. If it's bad, the engine won't run at all.

Quote :

Usually no-starts lead to something like the ignition switch. Any chance your key (chip) was wet or dirty?

I don't think so. I didn't pull it out and clean it between the times it wouldn't start and did start.

I just ran out and started it again - no problems at all. It's sitting ever so slightly downhill.

If you want to measure fuel pressure while driving, I can send you "the apparatus" to borrow.

What's that?

Fuel pressure meter - home brew, but it works.

Thats how I do it. Goes right onto the schrader valve on the fuel rail.

I'll let you know when I'm desperate enough to do that

Just out of curiosity, AA, why did you do it?

Do you guys really think this is a fuel pressure problem?

Mine ran out of gas yesterday when the guage said I had 1/8 tank left. I added five gallons from a can and then it read 3/4 tank WHAAAA?
Time for a new fuel pump/sender.

I'd just filled it up before parking it. I've got the same, very common problem with the sending unit though - actually nearly ran out of gas that time because I'd thought I'd filled it up already.

No, I don't think it's a fuel pressure problem. It would be ignition related, but since you can't duplicate it... I guess we can't troubleshoot anything!!

Quote :

Just out of curiosity, AA, why did you do it?

I was tracking a KR problem and need to be sure it wasn't the fuel pump crapping out.

But this meter can also tell you if your rail is holding pressure with the car off. This lets you detect fuel leaks, bad injectors, possibly a bad regulator.

If it aint broke, dont fix it. Get a Triple-A membership and tow it when it does go.

Jack - I have no data to support this BUT you know, this sounds like the ignition switch to me. Not the pass-key chip (different failure pattern) but the internal contacts in the ignition switch. Riv was one of the last GM cars to acually wire the "run" circuit through the ignition switch IIRC. I've had a similar problem with both my Riv and my Rendezvous. Sometimes the problem can be duplicated by wiggling the key while car is running. Sometimes the probme can be avoided by having no other keys but the ignition key and trunk key on the key ring.

Albertj

I tried duplicating the problem yesterday. Started it, moved it to a hill and parked it on a slant. Came back later and - perfect start.

I'll see how the situation develops.

FWIW, where is the fuel pickup at? Front or rear of the tank?