Hello all! I am new to RivPerformance, but am a regular on RegalGS.org.

Myself and Hellfish from RegalGS have been researching spark plug wires in an attempt to bring what we feel is the BEST plug wire available on the market today into the 3800 community. We are trying to organize a group buy in order to offer sets of these wires at an affordable price and would love to extend it to fellow Buick owners at Riviera Performance.

Summary:
Currently, there is no acceptable plug wire available for these cars.

I have found a solution that provides us what I believe is the best possible plug wire for a performance/street or race application, or even for a daily driver.

The wire I have chosen is a 10 mm wire with a 100% silicone jacket and a stainless steel (highly wound) winding. capable of withstanding 700*F sustained or 1200*F for 3 minutes.


Why these wires are better than factory or other wires already common to the market:
Inside your factory spark plug wire is a carbon laden latex material that conducts the ignition pulse to the plug from the coil along the surface of this latex core.

What happens over time is that portions of the carbon burn out (similar to electromigration) and the conductor looks akin to something not unlike Swiss cheese.

Companies that sell spiral core wires with low ohms are trying to take advantage of consumer ignorance! Marketing leads consumers to believe that less OHMS = more spark. In reality, what it means is that there is less linear feet of the expensive spiral wire. Unlike measuring ohms with a 1.5v DC ohm meter, ignition pulses (75,000VDC typical) travel across the outer edge of the spiral windings, and not through them linearly.

These wires have a stainless steel spiral winding with generous amounts of actual wire, which give them a high OHM reading, but allow them to transfer large amounts of energy easily. The conductor itself will be able transmit significantly more energy than stock, require less coil voltage to fire the plug, and could conceivably out last your car. Because of their construction they are both STRONGER and MORE FLEXIBLE than other solutions.

Carbon wires and ferrite windings tend to fail in the way I described above; sections get burnt out and no longer conduct as easily.

Copper cores (MSD) are notorious for corroding, which ultimately causes the same result as the situation described above.

Pros:

• In my honest opinion the BEST plug wire available today
  
• Excellent construction
  
• Excellent EMI suppression
  
• Most energy conducted to the plug
  
• Pure silicone insulation that will withstand 600*F sustained and 1000*F burst (8.5 mm ) / 700*F sustained and 1200*F burst (10 mm)
  
• These would be the last set of plug wires you buy ever, the conductor will never corrode (copper like MSD ) or break down (ferrite/carbon latex like stock).
  
• Should extend the life of your ignition coils because they will not have to work as hard to fire the plug.
  
• Made in America

Cons:

• Initial cost (replacing your stock wires with stock sets 2 to 3 times would easily pay for these). There is NO WAY these will be cheaper than MSD's or ZZP's. (BTW, the engineer I talked to at this company singled out MSD plug wires as being terrible and that they have lots of problems with them.)
  
• Orders would have to be in groups of AT LEAST 20+ or 50+. 50 would get a slightly better price.
  
• Looming. Basically you have to be extremely careful to ensure that all wires are are separated from each other and do not come into contact with any grounded metal (IE the ENGINE). While this will NOT damage the wire, it will cause poor performance of the ignition system. Most people who have cracked plug will often try and RMA these type of wires because of poor performance, when in reality it's due to the plug or poor insulation. 10mm will not fit stock looming and you will HAVE to buy seperators. I have been told 8.5 will fit. (some people use zip ties to make their own separators)

Most aftermarket plug wires are designed to optimize profit margin and not your maintenance schedule. They will not sell as many sets if they make sets that are designed to last the life of the car. Mechanics wouldn't make as much money if you don't come back. OEM's are looking at volume pricing, and don't care if they have to throw a set of wires at you with in your 36,000 miles if they get a great deal on them because they ordered a few hundred thousand at a time.


Cost:
The wire I have chosen is a 10 mm wire with a 100% silicone jacket and a stainless steel (highly wound) winding. capable of withstanding 700*F sustained or 1200*F for 3 minutes. Prices could be a bit less if the community moves towards the 8.5 mm wire, which is the same conductor, with a thinner silicone jacket which can withstand 600*F sustained or 1000*F for 3 minutes. The 1 piece pure silicone jacket makes it possible to fit the 8.5mm wires in the factory wire separators with out damaging the conductor like would happen with other brands. But I feel the extra insulation necessary since the proximity of our plug wires to the supercharger.

The sets will be manufactured by the manufacturer as the cost of the materials VS having them make the sets is so marginal that I determined it better to have them do it, so you don't need to worry yourself with anything in the regard of the quality of the assembly.

I would tentatively release the following prices:
20+ Orders, $130
50+ Orders, $120
(subject to change)
does not include wire separators or CoolSox, but includes shipping
(If I were a store owner, I would retails these sets at nearly $200)

You WILL need to provide a looming solution which keeps the wires separated and away from the engine as much as possible. (This is how ANY plug wire should be installed, but the manufacturer was clear they did not want to see wires come back because they were improperly routed.) I recommend CoolSox (spark plug boot protectors) in your installation especially in applications with headers/tubular manifolds or turbochargers, however the manufacturer says they should be fine with out them.

Properly installed and maintained, these will be the last plug wires you ever buy.

What I would like to do is start a list of 20. If it moves at a good pace, we will go to 50. Currently, there are 6 on the list.

Once we reach the order amount, I will dispatch an email and people on the list will have 48 hours to send payment. People who did not get in on time will be notified. Those who do not pay with in 48 hours will be replaced with people who did not make the first batch. If people get bumped the "back up people" will have 24 hours to pay. I'll place the order with the company and will then receive the wires and then ship them to their final destination myself. If a significant amount of people do NOT pay (lets say, 20-25%), I will return peoples money to them, sans paypal fees if they pay with a credit card. I will have 2 addresses to use, one for payments with and one with out a CC. If only a few people fail to pay, I will either attempt to work out a deal with the manufacture or pay for the remainder of sets my self and then they will be available at a marked up price to whomever wants them.

If everyone would commit to buying wire separators and CoolSox I could also likely get those at volume a discount as well. If there is enough interest, CoolSox will be available in white for an additional cost of ~27$ per set shipped (quantity of 6). When I bought mine they were 36+tax & S&H.

I have mad a few (good) connections with industries in this area, and chose to rely on American products and local business. Which I feel allows me to find better quality products and workmanship, while supporting our economy and working class. I refuse to deal with products that come from China, where ever avoidable.

All of the information above has been compiled from two threads on RegalGS.org. They can be found here:
(must be registered to view)
"Sick of Stock Spark Plug Wires? I have a solution for you":
http://www.regalgs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
"Official Plug Wire Sign Up Sheet":
http://www.regalgs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62556

Sounds like a good product, but unfortunately I just don't have the money. The prices are very good though, not nearly as high as I thought they were going to be the way you built up and up on the suspense!


Anybody interested? I wish I had the money or the need; my ignition system is still going just fine.

in my experience, 8mm Magnecors would work just as well, and in my use (about 100,000 miles on the riv with 8mm Magnecor wires) don't need CoolSox.

But your wires do sound nice.

Albertj

would they be blue and smell good like NAPA belden wires?
seriously though, i would give them a try, if I were in the market for some plug wires... but with the exchange rate, i cant justify 130USD. Maybe if there is excellent results in the first group run, I'd be in for the second.

A salute to Chris for taking a shot at organizing this group buy.

Albertj

I don't know....it sells itself...

I'll answer questions, then comment.

LSChris: My Magnecors are the 8mm Electrosports. IIRC I paid $65-75. It was quite some time ago and although I noted them in my maintenance log I did not note the price.

Hellfish: I don't know where you're going but I think I can see where you've been. It may help you to re-read Ryan's comment. It may also help you to use the 'search' function on this editboard to find and read the earlier postings about plug wires - the net of which is that the OE wires could stand improvement but are not bad at all for the price (if you shop around). I do not recall seeing much cheering or bragging about ZZP or MSD wires in those other RivieraPerformance posts.

Comment: I still sincerely salute Chris and Hellfish for offering this group buy. I'm sure people who are in the market for wires right this minute will look at them, although they are not my cup of tea.

Albertj

I commend you guys for trying to bring a product to the 3800 market.

I'm not personally interested, as I see no reason to spend that kind of cash on wires when my original AC Delcos were still going strong at 120k. I only chose to replace with new AC Delcos as part of a general maintenance project last year, at $40. I expect I'll get another 120k out of this new set.

Perhaps you'll find more interest from others here who are running higher perf cars than mine. Good luck with the GB.

I will possibly have some big info Monday after we talk to the manufacturer again, and likely install pics later in the week.

While stock plug wires will work just fine for a long time, because of their construction, they will make the coil achieve a higher voltage to get the plug to fire. This will unnecessarily over work the coil. These are really for people expecting high cylinder pressures and dense charge mixtures that will require a much higher than stock voltage to fire the plug anyway.

I'm going to copy paste from my original post on Regal gs. that was in reply to whats the difference between these plug wires and stock plug wires.

"Basically, inside your factory spark plug wire is a carbon laden latex material that conducts the ignition pulse to the plug from the coil along the surface of this latex core.

what happens over time is that portions of the carbon burn out (similar to electromigration in micro circuitry) and the conductor looks akin to something not unlike Swiss cheese. This will make the coil work harder (energize to a higher voltage) to cross the gaps and achieve the required voltage at the plug to fire.

Companies that sell spiral core wires with low ohms are trying to take advantage of consumer ignorance because consumers think that less OHMS = more spark and marketing leads them that way. In reality what it means is that there is less linear feet of the expensive spiral wire. Unlike measuring ohms with a 1.5v DC ohm meter, ignition pulses (45,000-75,000VDC typical) travel across the outer edge of the spiral windings, and not through them linearly.

These wires have a stainless steel spiral winding with generous amounts of actual wire, which give them a high OHM reading, but allow them to transfer large amounts of energy easily.

Carbon wires and ferrite windings tend to fail in the way i described above, sections get burnt out and no longer conduct as easily.

Copper cores (msd) are notorious for corroding, which ultimately causes the same result as the situation described above.

When your ignition coil fires, it's actually energizing until the plug discharges. This means, when you are wide open with denser charges and higher cylinder pressures it will achieve a higher voltage than at idle or cruise. The voltage required to jump the gap of the plug increases as the density of the charge in the cylinder increases. The resistance of the entire system (plug wire, plug, cylinder pressure/density) determines what coil voltage and plug voltage the plug will fire.

Even with NEW stock plug wires, or currently available aftermarket wires, it will take significantly more voltage to fire the plug than with these wires. Energizing to more voltage will hasten the life of your coils.

In either situation, the voltage at the plug it self is the same, as at wide open, the voltage to cross the gap in the PLUG will be same for a particular car regardless of what wire you are using. How ever, since some wires don't conduct energy as easily, the coil will have to reach a higher voltage to achieve the appropriate voltage at the plug it self.

Most aftermarket plug wires are designed to optimize profit margin and not your maintenance schedule. They will not sell as many sets if they make sets that are designed to last the life of the car. Mechanics wouldn't make as much money if you don't come back. OEM's are looking at volume pricing, and don't care if they have to throw a set of wires at you with in your 36,000 miles if they get a great deal on them because they ordered a few hundred thousand at a time.

Properly installed and cared for, these will be the last plug wires you buy. If I were selling these at a retail store front, i would be charging closer to 200$.

YOU
GET
WHAT
YOU
PAY
FOR

any thing worth doing is worth doing right... etc etc. I'm not here to teach people the value of quality materials and workmanship, but if they can recognize it themselves, then I'll gladly sell them a set.

BTW, the company will be making the sets them selves as the cost of the materials VS having them make the sets is so marginal that I determined it better to have them do it, so you don't need to worry yourself with anything in the regard of the quality of the assembly. Before you balk at the price, realize the price are on par with PRJ's which use Taylor 409 ferrite winding wires, and the premium over ZZPs is marginal at best, especially after shipping, which I am including. IMHO the premium you pay for most aftermarket wires was not spent in the component, but rather marketing. Not to mention, I went from nothing to basically having a product that could be shipping with in a week in a matter of days.

I have mad a few (good) connections with industries in this area, and chose to rely on American products and local business. Which I feel allows me to find better quality products and workmanship, while supporting our economy and working class. I refuse to deal with products that come from China, where ever avoidable. I'd like to see these as a start of something, perhaps a series of very specialized, quality components for our vehicles that are not available anywhere else."