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TheAviator
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TheAviator

Name : Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 10:23 pm

Thanks for the help, will look into it
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 10:24 pm

TheAviator wrote:
Thanks for the help, will look into it

I edited the post, remembered something.

Albertj
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Eldo
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Eldo

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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 10:29 pm

albertj wrote:


1) you just need an OBD I scanner with the OBD II connector attached. I posted something about this in another thread, don't recall which ATM.

It was this one:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-i-engine-transmission-f13/1995-riviera-problems-please-help-t7410.htm#114221
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TheAviator
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TheAviator

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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 11:00 pm

so if i use the jumpers as shown in the photo, with an obd1 scan tool, i will get a reading from the SES lights flashing a code???? The OBD 1 tools I found dotn have readouts, will they work?? Thanks guys
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 11:23 pm

TheAviator wrote:
so if i use the jumpers as shown in the photo, with an obd1 scan tool, i will get a reading from the SES lights flashing a code???? The OBD 1 tools I found dotn have readouts, will they work?? Thanks guys

No, you have to read the thread. There is more to it than that and the SES won't flash codes. There are combination OBD I-II scanners with wires already set for this, they can be bought on eBay. Please read the thread.

Albertj


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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 11:39 pm

That was actually my bad, Albert... I was trying to find a cheap way out and didn't notice that the unit I linked to didn't actually display numbers.
( I guess I was spoiled all those years with the Cadillac codes right on the ECC head.)

Now, however, you've both given me another question: If the OBD 1.5 is basically an OBD 1 computer with an OBD 2 DLC, why can't someone use the old paperclip trick to get the light to flash, like we did with the ALDL's?
scratch
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySun Jul 18, 2010 11:57 pm

Eldo wrote:
That was actually my bad, Albert... I was trying to find a cheap way out and didn't notice that the unit I linked to didn't actually display numbers.
( I guess I was spoiled all those years with the Cadillac codes right on the ECC head.)

Now, however, you've both given me another question: If the OBD 1.5 is basically an OBD 1 computer with an OBD 2 DLC, why can't someone use the old paperclip trick to get the light to flash, like we did with the ALDL's?
scratch

I have not seen anyone do that on the other forums. Does not mean it can't be done - but I am not aware of it and would refer to the factory service manual or a factory tech who has worked on the 95s. I do find that frustrating - my OBD-1 chrylsers and volvo would flash codes by pressing a button or flipping the key on-off 3 times in 5 seconds - not tough to get codes.

Albertj
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TheAviator
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 19, 2010 12:08 am

Well I broke down and bought a autoxray 3000 off of ebay. It comes with the 16 pin adapter for obd-1. hopefully it will work but if not I am only out 75 bucks, so it was worth the gamble I guess. Ill post the codes when I can get them. I love this car, but Im ready to put IT on ebay...lol
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyMon Jul 19, 2010 12:17 am

TheAviator wrote:
Well I broke down and bought a autoxray 3000 off of ebay. It comes with the 16 pin adapter for obd-1. hopefully it will work but if not I am only out 75 bucks, so it was worth the gamble I guess. Ill post the codes when I can get them. I love this car, but Im ready to put IT on ebay...lol

I hope it works, too, although I'm not aware that it will. I am aware that the 5000 or 6000 will. Good luck.

Albertj
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TheAviator
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 9:24 pm

SUCESS, sort of. I finally recieved my auto x ray, and was finally able to get my codes out of this monster and boy were there plenty. I hope the wonderful people here on the forum can help me figure out the problems. Here are the codes, as they came out. thanks in advance guys

P1629 Anti theft fuel enable circuit wrong frequency during crank.

No code. Ignition/distributer engine speed input malfunction

P1361 Electronic spark timing signal not switching after enable

P1626 Anti-theft system fuel enable circuit

P1565 cruise servo position sensor fail (CC hasnt worked for a while, cant even get the light to come on.)

PO300 random misfire ( like I didnt already know that....lol)

Any Ideas. You guys have been wonderful, and I want to get this car back to its old glory.......
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 9:56 pm

Jason,
Have you purchased the FSM for the 1995 yet.?

If not, I have book #1 for the FSM that I'm willing to send you for a very seriously good deal.

I believe it contains the data you may need to find your existing problems.
I'm not 100% sure, but at what i am offering this to YOU for, you can not turn it down.
Then all you need to do is find book#2 on ebay and you have a complete set.

Send a PM if you want it.

Better yet, email me at irrickw@comcast.net
Rick
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TheAviator
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TheAviator

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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 28, 2010 10:02 pm

Rick, I am on a borrowed computer out of town, and dont have the email client set up, i will email you tommorow from my office. thanks
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 29, 2010 12:05 am

WOW... That's a passel o' strange codes, podner!
(Sorry, I just watched a John Wayne movie...)

Some of those English translations just don't make sense, like the Fuel Enable Frequency. At least, in the later books, that code just means that the key pellet is off-resistance...

Obviously this is a '95, but there is one code that kind of sounds promising out of the '98 book - and I do know that GM tried to keep things standardized when they could... The P1361.

If you're always stuck at base spark advance, I imagine it would run poorly. Until a '95 expert chimes in, here's what the '98 book says for that code:

DTC P1361 Ignition Control (IC) Circuit Low Voltage
The ignition control module (ICM) sends signals that the PCM requires for fuel control and spark advance calculations. At the start of engine crank, the ICM controls spark advance (Bypass mode). When the second 3X reference pulse is recognized by the PCM, the PCM applies 5 volts to the Bypass circuit. The 5 volts on the Bypass circuit commands the ICM to switch spark advance to PCM control. At this time, the ICM will remove the ground it has applied to the IC circuit. When the IC pulses are not grounded, the ICM can use the PCM pulses to control spark advance. A short in the IC circuit or an open or short to ground in the Bypass circuit will cause the PCM to monitor no IC pulses after the PCM has switched the Bypass circuit ON. The PCM will set DTC P1361 under either of these conditions. The engine may be started but will run on Bypass mode timing.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 29, 2010 12:26 am

Jason,
A 1995 Triple black Riv with approx. 45,000 miles on it has got to be worth fixing, unless the body and interior are a mess.

I would think, but could be wrong, that the first things to tackle are the issues with the Ignition Control Module, which should lead you to, if not fix the Random Misfire codes and go from there.
Solving those 2 items only, will have a huge difference in the way the car performs.
The other items that refer to fuel and anti-theft that are relying on a crank signal could simply be a crank position sensor, I do not know, I am guessing, not having the experience or the diagnostic info in front of me. But, these multiple codes could be just a couple of bad items.
Hopefully.
Have you had mice or critter problems under hood like some others that have older cars with very low miles.? Have you found any signs of them in your air cleaner housing or even just shells or remnants they leave behind on the LIM under your engine cover.?
Another thing to consider is the deteriorated or broken wires that others have found at the various connectors,
again, the ICM and the main harness at the firewall come to mind.
Just thinking out load hear, but these are worthy of looking at.
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TheAviator
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TheAviator

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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 29, 2010 7:31 pm

Rick, I intend to fix the car, it is in great shape, was owned by my step dad, who brought it new in 95, and has a brand new paint job. I love this car plus it has sentimental value to me, but this problem with misfires I am having is driving me nuts. Although this is a lo milage car, it has been driven at least two to three times every month of its life, so no problems with critters. I am pretty sure I have an ICM or coil problem. Maybe a PCM, but I can not seem to find the right answer so far, but will keep looking. Thanks for the input..
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 29, 2010 10:35 pm

Jason,
If your back home or have access, check your email regarding the manual.
Will get it out to you ASAP, OK.

After looking through it, you will need to buy Book #2 from Ebay Motors.
Look under Accessories and then click on Manuals to reduce your search. I see them all the time. But this Book #1 will get you started.
Rick
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TheAviator
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TheAviator

Name : Jason
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PostSubject: Re: Running rough   Running rough - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 14, 2010 12:38 am

sucess. finally. It turns out the problem was the PCM, and all the codes I was chasing were bogus codes spit out by a bad ECC. Thanks to everyone for the help, the ol girl is back to running smooth as glass
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