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 Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)

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Chuckly
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Location : Daytona Beach '98 Riviera 3800 SC
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PostSubject: Water pump replacement   Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:11 pm

Any tips, short-cuts, how-to’s? I have a '98 SC.

Thanks,
Chuck
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sun May 01, 2011 9:02 pm

tip #1 - there's a write up on this site in the writeups section IIRC.

Albertj
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Chuckly
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sun May 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Thank you for responding. I went ahead and did the job (sucks), but still have my overheating problem!
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Mon May 16, 2011 3:00 pm

I didn't see a write up for changing the water pump on the Series2, only the series1 engines. My engine starting making a grinding noise last week. Thinking it was one of the pulleys, I opened the hood with the engine running, and there was coolant in a fine mist, spraying onto the rear tensioner, and heater hoses. I looked at the water pump pulley, but it looked as if it was running true, but when I released tension on the belt, I could wiggle that pulley about 1/4". I looked at the write up for the Series1, and it mentioned removing the alternator, P/S pump, and heater hoses. I was pleasantly surprised that I could get to all the bolts by just removing the Water pump pulley, and P/S pump. The procedure is the same as this write up for belts and pulleys. I remember reading in this write up about some guys reporting leaky pan gaskets after jacking the motor by the oil pan flange. My friend Steve (71stagegs) told me he used an area of the block just forward of the pan. I took a look, and sure enough, I was able to use a narrower piece of wood that fit right in there.



First drain the coolant and then after lifting the engine, I removed the P/S pump, and all 3 studs, and 2 spacers and lifted the entire bracket out of the engine compartment. I used some channel locks padded with a rag to hold the water pump pulley, so I could remove the 4 8mm pulley to pump bolts. I then had access to all 8 water pump attaching bolts. After removing the pump, I saw that the impeller was beginning to grind into the body of the water pump. The timing cover was scored a little. I'm glad I caught the bad pump when I did.






There are 8 water pump to timing cover attaching bolts, 4 long ones, and 4 short ones. The long ones go through water, so after cleaning them, I used some teflon sealer on the shanks, and anti seize on the threads. A little ultra black silicone on both sides of the gasket, and the pump bolted on easily.



I then changed all the pulleys while I was there. Two of them, including the one down near the bracket were on their way out. I then temporarily bolted up the P/S pump using one bolt, and put both belts on. I then unbolted the P/S pump, and installed the engine bracket. Installed the mount, lowered the car, and filled her back up. I was rewarded with a leak free and quiet engine.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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kcc001
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PostSubject: Waterpump going out   Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:45 pm

Need to replace a waterpump on '98 Riv, it started leaking a small amount of coolant down the side of the engine, smoking and a nice smell. Shut it off and leaked some more coolant from the weep holes. How involved is this, and how many parts have to come off to get to it?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:04 pm

I haven't needed to do it on the Riv, but it looks pretty straight forward. On my other cars it has been a matter of removing a few screws and swapping out with a new one. You'll probably want to lift the car and go in from the bottom for easier access.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:25 pm

Hey Larry, thanks for the write-up. Just wondering if you were you able to do all the work leaning over the fender or did you go through the wheel well aswell?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:27 pm

BMD wrote:
Hey Larry, thanks for the write-up. Just wondering if you were you able to do all the work leaning over the fender or did you go through the wheel well aswell?

Can't really reach the WP thru the wheel well, it is too far aft... that's why you have to jack the engine up a little against the mounts. As for the jacking there is a boss on the engine block that will fit a 1x2 or 2x2 fine, you don't want it too long really just long enough to clear the oil pan so we are talking maybe 8" +/-.
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knuckled1
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:44 pm

There should have been one for series 2. I thought I did them both? If not, thanks for takin the time to help us all out! Does anyone here have any experience with zzps underdive pulley for water pumps? Good or bad? Starting my list of parts to order, and I was wondering if its a waste of time and money?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:51 pm

BMD wrote:
Hey Larry, thanks for the write-up. Just wondering if you were you able to do all the work leaning over the fender or did you go through the wheel well aswell?


I leaned over the fender, and also removed the wheel, and splash shield. Most of the work can be done over the fender, but I found going through the wheel well to get the studs and engine bracket bolts was easier. It took me quite awhile to do the entire job, because I was unfamiliar and took my time. I could easily cut 2 hours off, if I had to do it again.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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knuckled1
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:25 pm

Speaking of water pumps, Does anyone here have any experience running an electric water pump? Are they for racing only or do they have a use, or will they benefit a HP street engine?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:28 pm


_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
playa
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:36 am

Just got done this and couple of things to note. It's pretty easy but you do have to remove everything. That said, Here are some things I learned.



The water pump itself is easy to reach leaning over the fender, but I do recommend being extra careful on breaking the bolts, more specifically on the smaller ones. I did ask f there were bolts kits available and the dealer said no but if I had to do over, I would replace at the very least, the 4 that are in contact with water.



I used a body sander block from autozone (100 grit) to help remove and excess gasket. Seemed to do fine



While it's out, replace the cam sensor - it's one bolt and pops in and out very easily. I also replace the idler pulley located behind the mount bracket.



Put a nice bead of hi temp silicone on both sides on the gasket. Overall, very easy job.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:54 pm

I know on the 70's Buick V8's, the small bolts were famous for snapping. When I did my water pump, I asked one of my club members who has done many 3800 water pumps. He told me that he has never snapped any off, and suggested that the bolt quality was much better in the late model stuff. He told me to use some Teflon sealer on the bolt shanks that went through water, and That is what I did.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:53 pm

Thanks for the pics Mark, but why would these bolts break more easily than any other bolts?
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playa
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:47 pm

They're thinner than the water jacket bolts and in the past (granted - they were 40 year old bolts), I've had them snap on me. Nothing is worse than having that happen - but especially on a FWD car given the room to work with. I'm just saying , be cautious and don't over torque them. Something else I've noticed is that since I've replaced all the pulleys (minus the HB) and tensioners, my Riv doesn't have the shimmy at high speeds like it used to. Coincidence?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:13 pm

I too had to perform the water pump replacement earlier this month. Interestingly, the pump failed the very day after replacing the radiator, hoses, and coolant. Mine started leaking badly late on a Monday night - I lost more than a gallon of coolant on a 40 mile drive. Obviously, this repair could not wait.

First things: I didn't want to get under the car, lift the engine, nor remove the side mount bracket. My reasons: started the job at 12:30am, and needed to get this finished in a couple hours, hoping for some sleep before waking up for work at 7am. I know, it wouldn't be easy, but I had to try.

What I found out is, YOU CAN swap out the water pump WITHOUT removing the mount. But the power steering pump does need to come off, which can be done from top side. Here's a pictorial of the process:









Here's how you can tell a bad water pump:



PS - I had no issues breaking screws. All came out easily with a box head wrench or 6-pt socket.































That's pretty much it. I actually took about 3 hours, because like some others I hadn't done a water pump on a Riviera before, so took my time. All-in-all, not too bad.

No leaks or other issues after 3 weeks!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:33 pm

Great wright-up. I just did my WP a few weeks ago. 2 days after doing a coolant flush i walked into my garage to find a puddle under the car (had to call into work).
My guess is the weep hole gets clogged over time with debris and flushing everything cleaned it up allowing the leak to reappear.
I had to get a crappy valucraft part to hold me over until the acdelco one came in the mail. Anyone know the difference between the "aftermarket design" and "OEM design" price differences are pretty large.
I still need to swap out my valucraft for the acdelco one. I just dont trust the autozone parts to last more than 6 months.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:59 pm

I usually don't skimp on parts, especially critical ones like this. But having had water pumps go out on most all my other cars, I bought a spare pump back in early '07 to keep around in case (when) the Riviera's failed. I think I found it at Advance Auto for $35. The brand name is "Signature". I have no idea how good or bad it is, but I do know our water pump is a very simple machine with a very simple job. Imo, it's hard to screw up the design unless they used an inferior bearing.

Good news is, I was in fact prepared for the inevitable, although I never thought it would be almost 5 years later than expected. More good news, if I ever find out this part wasn't of good quality, swapping in a new (AC Delco) unit should be a breeze now with the modified screw flange behind the motor mount.

If I were you, I'd just check your pump every year. It'll probably be all right. If not, maybe have an AC Delco unit on your shelf, ready to install at any time!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
BatMobile
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:55 pm

Hubby is tackling WP replacement right now, and he can't get over how poorly GM designed everything under the hood . . .ugh! This write up has been helpful and thanks!
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:07 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:

The procedure is the same as this write up for belts and pulleys. I remember reading in this write up about some guys reporting leaky pan gaskets after jacking the motor by the oil pan flange. My friend Steve (71stagegs) told me he used an area of the block just forward of the pan. I took a look, and sure enough, I was able to use a narrower piece of wood that fit right in there.




Do you have a better picture of where you supported the engine? I am having trouble finding a good spot to support the engine. I looked by the ac compressor and I didn't see any area to support the engine on the block. Did you have to remove the plastic shield that covers the cam sensor? I saw a spot below where the dip stick goes into the block. Would that work? The AC compressor bracket had a good spot, but I am worried that it would be too much weight on that area.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:58 pm

The contrast in that picture isn't the greatest, but if you look past the forward part of the oil pan, you will see a small section of the block, and that is what I used. I just used that thin piece of wood. Look carefully at the picture. You can see the oil pan flange and bolts. You don't want to support the engine weight on the oil pan flange. One of my friends made that mistake, and bent the flange, which resulted in a leak.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:26 pm



_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:29 pm

AA wrote:


I saw that when I was under there but wasn't sure if that would work. But if that works then great!

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:53 pm

I think there are two areas of block that could work. Use the one closest to the water pump.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
 
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