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 Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:10 pm

Im assuming a 97 gp PCM wont work in a buick so my next question would be can you tune a supercharged PCM to use in a non-supercharged car?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:45 am

I might be wrong (someone correct me if I am) but I think PCMs aren't entirely drivertrain specific, more finicky on types of years but there are many variables... For instance, I could take an NA PCM from a Grand Prix of 00 and use that as a core for my 00 Regal. Now I'm almost positive what I'm throwing out there would work but not sure if you can take a same year w-body (GP, Regal) from 97 and use that as a PCM core to write to on your PA.

Ugh... Anyone have more experience with this sort of thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:45 am

DEMonte1997 wrote:
I might be wrong (someone correct me if I am) but I think PCMs aren't entirely drivertrain specific, more finicky on types of years but there are many variables... For instance, I could take an NA PCM from a Grand Prix of 00 and use that as a core for my 00 Regal. Now I'm almost positive what I'm throwing out there would work but not sure if you can take a same year w-body (GP, Regal) from 97 and use that as a PCM core to write to on your PA.

Ugh... Anyone have more experience with this sort of thing?

So certain PCMs arent necissarily just for one certain year/make/model of car, instead there are a few PCMs made for each year and then each one is tuned specifically for the make/model it is put in to? Meaning another PCM from another L36 car that is supported and matches the PCM currently in my car could be used but might take a bit more tuning for it to work in my car?
Am i understanding correctly rick?
Do you think it would make more sense to get an L36 regal PCM over a grand prixs, or are all the security systems pretty much the same?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:13 pm

At one time I was told all '98-'02 3800 PCMs were the same. (also why DHP unlocked for said range of years) '97 is not the same, and a locked PCM unless you had DHP unlock that year. The program was different depending on N/A, SC, Park Ave vs Regal, etc, but the PCM itself is the same. So you could theoretically flash your '9

hmm what year is your car? would be nice to have that critical information in your sig.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:20 pm

It's a '97 wink

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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 am

AA wrote:
It's a '97 wink
Oh. Yeah well that pretty much blocks off that idea. I think there was a difference in transmission pinout. I have seen references on the DHP forums about what you need to do to use a '98 PCM in a '97, so it's possible. If you can make that happen you are free to tune away...
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:56 am

Thanks, ill have to see what it takes to put a 98 pcm into a 97 then.

So even if i top swap and put the 98 ultra pcm in my car the trans pinout will be different and i still wont be able to tune? So basically my top swap pcm is also useless until i figure out how to run a 98 pcm in a 97?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:38 pm

So basically you are looking to SC your park ave, correct? It might be easier to just swap in a complete series II l67 (with PCM) rather than tracing each wire, that can be a headache.

Or you could try the ZZP SC kit for the l36
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=382

rewireing a PCM can be very challenging.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:36 pm

Northeast wrote:
So basically you are looking to SC your park ave, correct? It might be easier to just swap in a complete series II l67 (with PCM) rather than tracing each wire, that can be a headache.

Or you could try the ZZP SC kit for the l36
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=382

rewireing a PCM can be very challenging.

Why would i have to rewire anything? I already have another pcm from an ultra WITH the complete harness. I also already have all of my top swap parts and am capable of doing it myself.
I dont get why you think this thread is even about a top swap when i already said im looking to swap pcms so i can learn to tune on my 97 L36 park avenue so when i do top swap ill already know how to tune.
Why swap an L67 when you can have a high compression supercharged L36 block?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:54 pm

97 park ave wrote:

Why swap an L67 when you can have a high compression supercharged L36 block?

Because KR is tougher to control as your comp. raises

97 park ave wrote:
Why would i have to rewire anything? I already have another pcm from an ultra WITH the complete harness. I also already have all of my top swap parts and am capable of doing it myself.
I dont get why you think this thread is even about a top swap when i already said im looking to swap pcms so i can learn to tune on my 97 L36 park avenue

Was just guessing, because I wasn't sure what you are try to tune with a basically stock PA. Just trying to figure out your plans to help you out since I've assisted a few engine/ecu/pcm swaps myself and they can get ugly, sry man...Ill keep my mouth shut
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:22 pm

Just lock this damned thread, its obvious if i dont want to do what other people think i should do even though im clearly stating what it is im trying to do, nobody is going to help so i guess ill have to ask on another forum where theres more than one way of doing something.

/thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:33 pm

No, I think I get you man. You're looking to learn how to tune, so when you are ready for what you're going to do, you already have the knowledge to tune your swap...but your current ride (97) doesn't have a tuneable PCM, so you are asking if you can swap in a 98 PCM to learn to tune on it.....but its also your daily driver, so you asking if the 98 will work on your 97 so you can get to work.....

is this right?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:51 pm

Correct. Not only would it be nice to know so that i can tune now, but also like i said the pcm for my top swap is from a 98 ultra, so i will need this information sooner or later. I know im not the first person with this question...
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:13 am

I am suggesting you look into the details on the DHP board, that's where I recall seeing that people have swapped '97 and '98 PCMs before. I would love to see it accomplished.

Top Swapping is okay, but much harder to tune. I have seen many many a top swap that lean-chipped a piston and ended up with an L67 block after.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:57 pm

Not really about xp or 7 anymore, but i decided not to stsrt a new thread.


97-00 L67 park aves are all supported by DHP as far as i know. None of the L36 park aves are supported. What i have always heard is PCMs from the same year are the same, theyre just tuned differently for the car that they are put in. I also remember reading a thread on the powrtuner forum where someone with an intrigue was asking why there is supercharged options in the DHP program when his car, let alone any factory intrigue, isnt supercharged. A member replied saying that every 3800 car has the supercharged options in the program.
So that brings me to my question, can i get a 97 ultra .bin and flash it to my PCM if the hardware #s are the same, and then just tune it to my car?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:11 pm

I like the idea. Only trouble is, what if it didn't work? How would you restore your sock BIN? If you found the 97 ultra BIN and wanted to send to me, I'd be willing to try programming it to my Riv. If it works on a totally different model, I'd think you're safe trying it out on your PA.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:26 pm

AA wrote:
I like the idea. Only trouble is, what if it didn't work? How would you restore your sock BIN? If you found the 97 ultra BIN and wanted to send to me, I'd be willing to try programming it to my Riv. If it works on a totally different model, I'd think you're safe trying it out on your PA.
I was able to read and save the .bin file on the car as is, i even did a short idle scan. If it worked for reading/saving, do you think i would be able to write the stock .bin that i have back to the pcm if it ended up not working?
That spare PCM that i was told is from a 98 ultra is actually starting to seem like a 97 pcm. It has the panel on the side held on by 2 torx bolts, like my 97s, and looks nothing like the PCM in my girlfriends 98 GS. The SERV. NO. and HDW. NO. for the spare PCM match the numbers on my 97s PCM.
Would i be safe to think that my spare PCM is actually from a 97 ultra? And if that were the case couldnt i just plug it in to my car and try to read the .bin and possibly see if it will start my car? That way i wont have to flash anything to the stock PCM and chance it not working. What do you think?
Otherwise ill try to get a hold of a 97 ultra .bin for you to look at.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:35 pm

Sorry if I'm oversimplifying things, but if you were able to read and save the stock BIN, why can't you just edit that file with the changes you want, "save as" a new file, then upload back to your car's PCM?

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:01 pm

AA wrote:
Sorry if I'm oversimplifying things, but if you were able to read and save the stock BIN, why can't you just edit that file with the changes you want, "save as" a new file, then upload back to your car's PCM?

Because thats as far is it will let me go. I can read the PCM info, scan, read/clear DTCs, and save the stock .bin. As soon as i go to open it, i get a pop up error message because its not supported.
Thats what youre asking right, cant i just tune the stock file i read and saved?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:17 pm

Can you get your hands on a '97 Ultra's PCM? Then if you can read/flash it, just edit the VIN number and voila!
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:10 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Can you get your hands on a '97 Ultra's PCM? Then if you can read/flash it, just edit the VIN number and voila!
My second to last post was talking about how i think that the spare PCM that i have is supposedly a 98 ultras PCM, but like i said the PCM looks more like my PCM than my girlfriends 98 GS. It has ridges on the outside (kind of like the ridges on top of an M90), it also has a removable panel that is held on by 2 torx bolts. Does that sound like a 97 PCM to you? Cause not only does it look like my PCM, but the HDW. and SERV. #s on the sticker match mine.
Dont i have to hook the spare PCM up to my car to read it?
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:44 pm

97 park ave wrote:
Dont i have to hook the spare PCM up to my car to read it?

You should be able to swap PCMs, read it, then swap back (or try a write). Hopefully the read will identify the year of PCM for you. The car may not run, but if you find it's a '97 PCM from the read you may be all set.

I have a spare '98-02 PCM and it has small fins/ridges on it's outside. Not sure how to decipher the HDW or SERV numbers, but if they match it's worth a try. No matter which it is you should still be able to read the PCM.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:49 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
Dont i have to hook the spare PCM up to my car to read it?

You should be able to swap PCMs, read it, then swap back (or try a write). Hopefully the read will identify the year of PCM for you. The car may not run, but if you find it's a '97 PCM from the read you may be all set.

I have a spare '98-02 PCM and it has small fins/ridges on it's outside. Not sure how to decipher the HDW or SERV numbers, but if they match it's worth a try. No matter which it is you should still be able to read the PCM.

So just disconnect my PCM, put the new one in, turn the key forward, and then read the PCM and try to open the file in DHP?
Should i disconnect the battery first?
If it reads/opens and is in fact a 97, should i see if it will start?
And does that 98-02 PCM you have that little panel i was talking about?

Sorry for all the questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:14 pm

97 park ave wrote:

So just disconnect my PCM, put the new one in, turn the key forward, and then read the PCM and try to open the file in DHP?
Yep
97 park ave wrote:

Should i disconnect the battery first?
Yep
97 park ave wrote:

If it reads/opens and is in fact a 97, should i see if it will start?
Might as well try it! Worst case is that it won't start/run. If it's a '97 I don't think you can hurt anything by trying. I forget if you have to do a security learn on'97s.
97 park ave wrote:

And does that 98-02 PCM you have that little panel i was talking about?
Ummmm... I have to dig it out of a storage bin... will try to but you will probably get yours swapped first!!!
97 park ave wrote:


Sorry for all the questions.

No problem! I have reflashed quite a few '97 GTPs and my share of '98 - '02 3800s but never tried swapping PCMs around from '97 SC-NA cars. I really wouldn't expect there to be a difference besides the programming.
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PostSubject: Re: Tuning Series II NA Engine PCM (Park Avenue)   Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:20 pm

Ill try to just get a pic of my PCM when im out there and then you can try and remember if thats what yours looks like, thats a lot easier than diggin for it.
Ill have to go swap and give it a shot, ill let you know how it goes when i get a chance.
Thanks for all your time and patience.
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