FAQ: Engine Oil - What type and change intervals?

1998 Riv wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Then why use Synthetic that you have to change every 3500 miles.?

I find the engine turns over more easily in winter temps with synth oil. I see winter morning temps in the minus 30's at times. And it sits outside at work all day.

This makes a *lot* of sense. I get it. DIno oil is pretty thick stuff at -30F.

Albertj

Even in small doses, coolant will prematurely wear all the engine bearings.

I agree, anything more than 0% on a lab report requires attention.

Albert,
Thank you for the link to the site. It is very interesting and enjoyed it. (Not done reading everything yet, lot's of good stuff)
Do you know if these guys are still producing any info or Data.? The last entry I saw was 2004 or 2006, something like that.
Very good individual analysis though, was just wondering if you knew these guys or know what happened to them.?

From what I have read, it has helped in validating my switch to Synthetic oil (Mobil 1) and has educated me on the need to possibly only change the oil filter in between oil changes. I think I will go with an annual oil change, based on the amount of miles I drive annually and their reports.
I will still send Blackstone 2 samples per year though. Just to keep my own database.

albertj wrote:

1998 Riv wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Then why use Synthetic that you have to change every 3500 miles.?

I find the engine turns over more easily in winter temps with synth oil. I see winter morning temps in the minus 30's at times. And it sits outside at work all day.

This makes a *lot* of sense. I get it. DIno oil is pretty thick stuff at -30F.

Albertj

I disagree with this in theory. 5w30 is 5w30 whether it's synthetic or dino. If it's so cold you run 0w30 or 0w20 or whatever, the viscosity is the same whether synthetic or not. If the viscosity wasn't 5w30 they can't put 5w30 on the label. But I don't live in Minnesota, so I can't vouch for experience. I find it hard to believe it's anything more than a slight perception though.

deekster_caddy wrote:

albertj wrote:

1998 Riv wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Then why use Synthetic that you have to change every 3500 miles.?

I find the engine turns over more easily in winter temps with synth oil. I see winter morning temps in the minus 30's at times. And it sits outside at work all day.

This makes a *lot* of sense. I get it. DIno oil is pretty thick stuff at -30F.

Albertj

I disagree with this in theory. 5w30 is 5w30 whether it's synthetic or dino. If it's so cold you run 0w30 or 0w20 or whatever, the viscosity is the same whether synthetic or not. If the viscosity wasn't 5w30 they can't put 5w30 on the label. But I don't live in Minnesota, so I can't vouch for experience. I find it hard to believe it's anything more than a slight perception though.

Ask Dave.

Albertj

It's not a slight perception. It's my ears listening to the engine turn over. The difference was easily detectible. I hadn't been a synth oil user until the past few years. Started using it in the Riv and now it's in the 05 T&C also. Both engines crank easily regardless of how cold it is. Wasn't the case before I switched.

1998 Riv wrote:

It's not a slight perception. It's my ears listening to the engine turn over. The difference was easily detectible. I hadn't been a synth oil user until the past few years. Started using it in the Riv and now it's in the 05 T&C also. Both engines crank easily regardless of how cold it is. Wasn't the case before I switched.

My wild guess is the natural oil is gelling at the low temperatures, and the PAO synthetic (Mobil1) does not, at least not as much. It's more of a problem with diesel fuel for instance. A different synthetic made from a natural base oil (IIRC Mobil1 is made from natural gas) probably gels too.

Albertj

This thread makes my head hurt.... Really. So a lot of people are throwing out different grades of motor oil to say they are preserving their motors longer. Do we not all have mostly L36 and L67s on this site? I've been putting 10W-30 oil in my Regal (same damn motor) for 70,000 miles with no issue now. I assume the motor in my Riv (L67 again) is pretty much identical and I'm guessing the previous owner threw the same 10W-30 dino oil I've been putting in for the past however many miles. I'm all for being meticulous with car maintenance across the board but feel this could be beating some kind of dead animal with a blunt object.

DEMonte1997 wrote:

This thread makes my head hurt.... Really. So a lot of people are throwing out different grades of motor oil to say they are preserving their motors longer. Do we not all have mostly L36 and L67s on this site? I've been putting 10W-30 oil in my Regal (same damn motor) for 70,000 miles with no issue now. I assume the motor in my Riv (L67 again) is pretty much identical and I'm guessing the previous owner threw the same 10W-30 dino oil I've been putting in for the past however many miles. I'm all for being meticulous with car maintenance across the board but feel this could be beating some kind of dead animal with a blunt object.

Question is, will the beatings continue until the subject gets better/morale improves/the last vestige of consciousness slips off into oblivion...

Albertj

Albert-You have too many options in your post. The post may not be helpful to 3800 bearings.

Gotta admit, I really get tired of seeing new threads on various boards repeatedly asking about what oil to use... I don't think anyone would be making a mistake if they simply stayed close to the mfgr recommendations, synth or not.

I buy the least expensive properly rated oil I can.
Always have, and I have never had any problems because of it.
The money is better spent on a good filter.

In the case of our cars, they are old enough now that even the cheapest oils have ratings that supercede what was the latest and greatest when they were new.

I'm sure synthetics are awsome, but I can't justify to myself spending that much money on an oil change.

1998 Riv wrote:

Gotta admit, I really get tired of seeing new threads on various boards repeatedly asking about what oil to use... I don't think anyone would be making a mistake if they simply stayed close to the mfgr recommendations, synth or not.

makes sense. Probably gets so much thread time because it's something most people can do, it's heavily advertised, and most likely people with even a marginal idea of what's going on feel as if they are expert, or at least "right" in their choice whatever it is.

Albertj

Agreed, and oil has such a "mystique" quality that's very hard to prove with quantitative data. For example, I have 199k miles on my Rivera, have used Valvoline 10-30W conventional every 3k miles since 24.5k miles. My engine runs strong.

I could say Valvoline conventional is the best choice since I've demonstrated a proven track-record, but synthetic advocates would say otherwise. And it's entirely possible a generic brand could also work fine. There's no way to know for sure, so my feeling is (stated repeatedly throughout this thread), frequent changes with "good" oil are better than infrequent changes with "great" oil. It's the low mileage between oil changes that lets me sleep easy at night knowing the oil is clean, and the filter is fresh.

I use the same rule with spark plugs. Oil and plugs are so cheap, I don't understand why there is a desire to extend the life of these items. When changed, examining these parts can tell you a lot about what's happening in your engine - unless you eliminate the opportunity to check them!

I agree with AA. I change my oil actually less than 3,000 miles (cause I can). The kind of oil I use depends on what I have available (dino 5w-30 or Syn 5w-30). When I acquired enough left over synthetic (I'd save the 1/2 quarts left over from ppls oil chngs) I'd use that. Otherwise I just used the stuff we had bulk (Valvoline I believe).
As for spark plugs, most of us are usin AutoLite 104's (copper), and I notice that I can burn em up fairly well in about 10,000 miles, so I change em once a year. It's less than $15 and takes me about 15 minutes to change em all.

from: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/audio-electronics-f7/electrical-issues-t7156.htm#109305

robotennis61 wrote:

ata girl! don't let the naysayers nay say
a well maintained riv can go 200 odo,before it needs attention. a new motor might breath new life in the old girl ...my plan somtime in the future

I have over 200K on mine - have done synthetic oil changes - have **no** signs that I will need a new motor anytime soon. I probably should do a leakdown test to understand that better - but as it is things look fine.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

ata girl! don't let the naysayers nay say
a well maintained riv can go 200 odo,before it needs attention. a new motor might breath new life in the old girl ...my plan somtime in the future

I have over 200K on mine - have done synthetic oil changes - have **no** signs that I will need a new motor anytime soon. I probably should do a leakdown test to understand that better - but as it is things look fine.

Albertj

Well that's a good sign for sure! I'm about to hit 172k miles, probably within the next few weekends.

Currently I'm using a 5W30 semi-synthetic oil (Castrol High Mileage, I think), and I'm going to get a change tomorrow. Tune-up is this weekend. I'm reading TONS of horror stories online though about power flushing (engine failure afterwards?!)... but I really do think my car needs it. What's your opinion, Albert?

What are you going to flush? The crankcase? I would not recommend it. What makes you think it needs to be flushed?

deekster_caddy wrote:

What are you going to flush? The crankcase? I would not recommend it. What makes you think it needs to be flushed?

Yeah, the crankcase. I'm sure the engine (inside) is probably filthy. I'm not sure when the last time my dad (previous owner) had the oil changed on it before I took over the title, especially since there were battery issues prior to my owning her. And I doubt it's ever been seriously cleaned on its inside parts since he bought her so many years ago.

Basically, I just want to start taking better care of the car, especially now that she is getting up there in mileage. I really think a thorough cleaning would help her perform better, though she runs fine as it is.

I'm assuming the "flush" is something similar to like a Seafoam product, that I would only need to do once every 10k miles or so? Unless I'm totally confusing what everyone here means by a flush during the oil change.

Yeah, pretty much it's an additive you use for a few minutes before changing the oil. The concern is that it dislodges some crap that eventually clogs somewhere more important, like a lifter galley. I had that happen to me on the one 3800 I flushed out - a week later one of the lifters started clattering like mad - a few days later it went away on it's own but in the interim I was expecting a catastrophic failure.

Just change the oil more frequently, use a good oil and don't worry about flushing it.

The reason I flushed the one engine was because it had shot intake manifold gaskets and coolant sludge was everywhere I looked inside. After replacing the intake gaskets I did the flush, then I had a lifter clacking...

I had a shop-class teacher who warned us against aggressive cleaners in the oil...

I don't remember the details now, but it was basically a Pontiac 400 that was just fine until someone decided to 'clean' it. Then it was a wreck. All the junk went where you didn't want it to go...

I have only recently tried a little Seafoam in my crank and my tank (hey, it rhymes!) I was mainly worried about condensation in the gas tank while storing the '69 Wildcat, but I figured a little bit in the (fresh) oil couldn't hurt.

As far as my Rivi, I like to think I'm still being conservative when I buy 7500-mile syn-blend oil and change it at 5,000. Or buy 15,000-mile full-synthentic and change it at 10,000... (I wouldn't let the filter go that long, though, even though I've gone to the longer, more-square-inches WIX filters...

Hey guys i was wondering has any one ever used royal purple in the riv? I saw some good reviews on the stuff and it does work. But i also saw that higher milage motors will burn through it between oil changes. i dont mind spending the money on the product but i dont to have to add 2 qts between oil changes.

95rivy wrote:

Hey guys i was wondering has any one ever used royal purple in the riv? I saw some good reviews on the stuff and it does work. But i also saw that higher milage motors will burn through it between oil changes. i dont mind spending the money on the product but i dont to have to add 2 qts between oil changes.

If your seals are not leaking, OK, but Mobil 1 that you get from WalMart for under $30/5 quarts and don't have to change for 7500 - 10000 miles is a better value IMHO.

Albertj

I sell Royal Purple here,its about $1 cheaper per litre than Castrol Syntec. I run Castrol Syntec and don't think I'll be switching over anytime soon.

The way I see it... Castrol has been making oils/lubricants the right way for a very, very long time now. How long has oil been synonymus with the name Royal purple? Maybe 10 years or so, and early on it was mainly exclusive to the drag racing scene.

I'll stick to the tried and true in my Riv for now. I will prolly run Royal in the Javelin when I get the 360 finished and in.

I use Amsoil 5W/30 in my Riviera. No problems with burning or leaking oil at 128K