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 recommendation for fuel pump wrench

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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptySun Oct 25, 2020 11:53 am

My Carter fuel pump is 100% fine, far as I can tell, BUT the fuel level sender is driving me nuts. So I went to the junkyard to get a donor unit (there's a mechanically fit '99 out there that has rust issues in critical structural places, and suffers from some obvious but not fatal deferred maintenance). I tried to get the FP out with hammer & drift, and failed (had to leave yard, closing time).

I have read that the factory J39765 spanner wrench gets these out in a jiffy (with a 24" breaker bar). Price on those, though, is very salty. Like, hundred-year-mackerel salty. I suspect one or another of the aftermarket wrenches works too; they are not so pricey.

I'd appreciate it if you'd post or PM me a recommended wrench for removing/installing the fuel pump assembly. So I can buy one today or Monday, and get this toad off my nose so to speak. As for the replacement... I suppose I'll paint warm paraffin or some such on the lock ring assembly so it won't be so stubborn to R&R again just in case my sender repair does not work out.

And yes, I hope I don't have to replace the tank.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 12:43 am

Use a 5 lb hammer. Unless you did, but your experience sounds like my experience when I tried to remove the lock ring with a framing hammer. Not ever going to happen. Even with a 5 lb you gotta whale on it - but it does finally go!
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 1:45 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Use a 5 lb hammer.  Unless you did, but your experience sounds like my experience when I tried to remove the lock ring with a framing hammer.  Not ever going to happen.  Even with a 5 lb you gotta whale on it - but it does finally go!

Hmmm... I have a 2 lb and a 6 lb.  

I bit the salami so to speak and bought the Kent Moore tool for removing the lock ring (used, eBay) for about the same as the universal tools go for (the comments for the universals I saw said they didn't fit the GM ring I have).  I may sell said tool when done.

I still need to get that used pump, maybe after the tool arrives.

I thought what I'd do is overhaul the used pump then install it. I have to figure out how to get a new fuel level sending unit.  New pump is actually easy, RockAuto.

If I do have to replace the tank, the JY tank looked pretty good.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 2:16 pm

Take this into consideration - that accordion hose is a serious PITA to install. To get it on, you have to take a heat gun and heat it to the very edge of melting. You really need three hands to do this job. You have to do this delicate operation while wearing heavy gloves because your fingers are going to be in the heat with the fuel line. Right in the heat, because the line is an accordion and you can't push it from an inch or two down the line.

I melted two lines before I got one on. It was awful.

If I had to do it again, and I will because the Walbro doesn't hold pressure in the line and I hate cranking the engine while the pressure builds up, I would buy a second cannister and get it all set up so I could just swap it in and have minimal down time. I think I had my Riv down for two months while I sorted all the issues with the cannister and the Walbro pump.
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7948
Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 8:00 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Take this into consideration - that accordion hose is a serious PITA to install.  To get it on, you have to take a heat gun and heat it to the very edge of melting.  You really need three hands to do this job.  You have to do this delicate operation while wearing heavy gloves because your fingers are going to be in the heat with the fuel line.  Right in the heat, because the line is an accordion and you can't push it from an inch or two down the line.  

I melted two lines before I got one on.  It was awful.

If I had to do it again, and I will because the Walbro doesn't hold pressure in the  line and I hate cranking the engine while the pressure builds up, I would buy a second cannister and get it all set up so I could just swap it in and have minimal down time.  I think I had my Riv down for two months while I sorted all the issues with the cannister and the Walbro pump.  

Thanks - I remember how my hands hurt just reading, some time ago, about all the fun you were having on your fuel pump work.

Again, I thought what I'd do is overhaul the used pump then install it. I still have to figure out how to get a new fuel level sending unit, and my guess is I'll be able to match one up after I get the used pump. For the used pump I am trying to get, it was still holding pressure in the line after some weeks of being parked in the JY. If I have to get a replacement electric cartridge, most likely I'll get the delco. And as for that fuel line I am told that what you do is soften the end in boiling water.

Plan B (or C) is to buy one of the RockAuto closeout Airtex pumps. Before they run out. IIRC they were an OEM for Delco, but also IIRC the pumps and tank level sensors were not all that good.
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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Post Count : 7948
Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 8:00 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Take this into consideration - that accordion hose is a serious PITA to install.  To get it on, you have to take a heat gun and heat it to the very edge of melting.  You really need three hands to do this job.  You have to do this delicate operation while wearing heavy gloves because your fingers are going to be in the heat with the fuel line.  Right in the heat, because the line is an accordion and you can't push it from an inch or two down the line.  

I melted two lines before I got one on.  It was awful.

If I had to do it again, and I will because the Walbro doesn't hold pressure in the  line and I hate cranking the engine while the pressure builds up, I would buy a second cannister and get it all set up so I could just swap it in and have minimal down time.  I think I had my Riv down for two months while I sorted all the issues with the cannister and the Walbro pump.  

Thanks - I remember how my hands hurt just reading, some time ago, about all the fun you were having on your fuel pump work.

Again, I thought what I'd do is overhaul the used pump then install it. I still have to figure out how to get a new fuel level sending unit, and my guess is I'll be able to match one up after I get the used pump. For the used pump I am trying to get, it was still holding pressure in the line after some weeks of being parked in the JY. If I have to get a replacement electric cartridge, most likely I'll get the delco. And as for that fuel line I am told that what you do is soften the end in boiling water.

Plan B (or C) is to buy one of the RockAuto closeout Airtex pumps. Before they run out. IIRC they were an OEM for Delco, but also IIRC the pumps and tank level sensors were not all that good.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 8:44 pm

I believe I remember trying to soften my hose with the boiling water technique, and it didn't come close to working. I used a heat gun on mine.

That hose goes from being impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to just right to melted. The heat range you're looking for is so narrow, and while you're trying to hit it you're fighting the heat and your lack of a third hand.

I wouldn't try to save a buck on this one, knowing what I know now.
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7948
Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 11:13 pm

Jack the R wrote:
I believe I remember trying to soften my hose with the boiling water technique, and it didn't come close to working.  I used a heat gun on mine.  

That hose goes from being impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to impossible to put on, to just right to melted.  The heat range you're looking for is so narrow, and while you're trying to hit it you're fighting the heat and your lack of a third hand.  

I wouldn't try to save a buck on this one, knowing what I know now.    

Hmmm... I think I will sleep on it. In my experience the Airtexes have issues with the pumps and the Delcos have issues with the senders. The Carter I have now has run much much longer than the original factory pump.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyThu Oct 29, 2020 3:17 pm

Somewhere in my thread there should be info on the sending unit I purchased. IIRC the wire insulation melted at a lower temp than expected, so you have to be careful when shrinking the heat shrink tubing down, but it's worked great so far.
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyFri Oct 30, 2020 2:10 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Somewhere in my thread there should be info on the sending unit I purchased.  IIRC the wire insulation melted at a lower temp than expected, so you have to be careful when shrinking the heat shrink tubing down, but it's worked great so far.  

I remember reading that, took you a while to match up a Herko.  

I slept on it & didn't get an answer.  I might ditch the idea of the JY pump. Wrench should arrive today, I'll go out Saturday. Might end up with the RockAuto Airtex closeout and an upgraded sender... two other problems have cropped up. One - the kitchen range needs a new control board... Two - visits are suspended at my dad's nursing home so I can't visit for a while anyway.

Fun N Games.

Albertj
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyFri Oct 30, 2020 7:42 pm

Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptySun Nov 01, 2020 12:12 am

Jack the R wrote:
Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.

I went to the junkyard today. With the factory wrench it was not that tough to get the FP out. No WD40 required (which was my first hint). I turned the lock ring partway with the wrench and the rest of the way with hammer and drift -- did not have to pound real hard. That won't work on my R&R with fuel fumes but in the pickandpull JY the tanks are drained well. Really well. My guess is they siphon most fuel out then jumper the fuel pump and let the rest out thru the Schraeder valve on the FI system for cars so equipped (most are).

So... what I discovered is that the pump I pulled is a Delco unit with a January 2017 manufacture date decal.

I'd *like to* replace the fuel strainer but really, I think I more or less got a winner here.

I checked the fuel level sensor on the new pump with an ohmmeter. It was erratic (put mildly). After checking to see that the level sensor electricals looked OK (were the wipers touching the contact points across all the sweep) I cleaned the contact points and applied a small amount of dielectric lubricant (CRC 2-26, I also use it on problematic electrical connectors). There are other lube/cleaners for this as well, most notably DeOxit Fader Spray. Radio Shack's "TV Tuner Cleaner" comes to mind as well (they have a web site, but just try and find a radioshack store). Anyway, after cleaning the level sensor electricals, I connected the ohmmeter again and checked the resistance readings across the sweep. Looked great, went from about 38 ohms to about 245 ohms smoothly, without any sudden jumps or dead spots.

My guess is I could just pull the fuel pump I have, clean the level sensor, and re-install it. Not doing that given the comparative age of the two units, if I'm dropping the tank etc. I am installing the newest best unit in the tank. Period.

Next step will be to figure out when to do the swap. Most likely this coming weekend. I also have a pair of front control arms to install somehow, and it's time to change over to winter tires (well, by Thanksgiving actually).
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptySun Nov 01, 2020 2:18 pm

I'm glad to hear you found a good pump. Do you know how many miles are on it?
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptyMon Nov 02, 2020 9:43 am

Jack the R wrote:
I'm glad to hear you found a good pump.  Do you know how many miles are on it?

# of miles on the FP is not really knowable. Think about it. The thing I suspect really matters is actual hours on the FP.

If you use USA motoring averages to guess, a driver logs an hour per day, on average, covering 29 miles. (This is the real reason why most accidents happen within 25 miles of the driver's home: most *driving* is within 25 miles of the driver's home...) The FP runs a lot but not all the time (I could be wrong but I understand it turns on and off to keep the fuel rail up to pressure) but I'll assume it's on for this model. I will also assume 'daily driver' in that 200 work days in a year plus personal travel calculate up to the average 13,500/year. Call it 338 hours/year. So my WAG would be the FP has seen around 3 to 3.5 years of use for 1014 to 1183 hours total since install. As for this car, there is no way the car was driven 13,000 miles per year over its entire life span but it's plausible that it was driven that much lately.

RockAuto says FPs go about 7-10 years; my guess is the Delco pump assembly is engineered to last the 'average' driver 10 years or on the order of 10,000 hours. I think only Bosch actually got the senders right (the pumps were not all that great I am told) and Bosch doesn't make FPs for the Riv any more. The sender on my original FP was consistently wrong but directionally correct. The replacement (a Carter) had a sender that worked OK for years (it was also consistently wrong), but has not worked right at all since the car was last in the bodyshop (they had to drop the tank).

Assume a 30% error bar around that use, and we can estimate that the pump has seen 700 to 1300 hours' use out of a 10,000 hour life. Cleaned up, tested, and with a new intake sock, it should be fine. With a new electric pump it would be pretty much guaranteed, but it's not apparent that such a thing is needed.



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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7948
Merit : 166

recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
PostSubject: Re: recommendation for fuel pump wrench   recommendation for fuel pump wrench EmptySat Nov 21, 2020 6:41 pm

Well... I got the job done, I think I'll make a short write-up about it.
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recommendation for fuel pump wrench Empty
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