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 Help! Changing belts

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Cliff96
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Name : Cliff
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PostSubject: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyMon Oct 26, 2020 7:59 pm

My recently acquired 96 is in desperate need if new belts. I started today to remove and replace them. I'm going by the factory service manual. I removed the bottom spacer and easily took out the old supercharger belt. The accessory belt is running thru either side of the pulley that's in between the engine mount. How do you remove that belt?? I followed the factory service manual but can't see how that belt would come out. I'm stumped. Help! Changing belts  20201011
Help! Changing belts  20201010Help! Changing belts  20201011
Help! Changing belts  20201010Help! Changing belts  20201011
Help! Changing belts  20201010
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LARRY70GS
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LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyMon Oct 26, 2020 8:01 pm


_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 9:14 am

LARRY70GS wrote:
Just support the engine and remove the mount.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t725-write-up-replacing-belts-and-pulleys

I could be wrong (and my Riv is not here to look at ATM) but both sides of that belt are within the arms of the mount. You should be able to pass the belt in front of the pulley by bending it 90 degrees as you lower it then take it out via the opening you made when you removed the ferrule at bottom of mount. Installation is reverse of removal. Also I think there's a way to swap that pulley without removing the mount but it's tricky, I think it may involve gently jacking up the engine a little or some such. I've replaced my pulley once, I forget what mileage maybe 200 - 250K?
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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 10:08 am

You remember correctly. I have the old belt 3/4 of the way across the front of that pulley but can't pull it across any further. The pulley moves with the mount and the space doesn't appear to change. Maybe I should try some dawn dish soap in there to make it slippery. The service manual has me removing the power steering pump and draining all the coolant to in order to remove the pulley bracket/engine mount bracket. I'm not prepared to do that. There has to be an easier way. It's unreal that they made it this difficult to change a serpentine belt
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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 11:56 am

I just got the old belt past the pulley by putting dawn on it. I've got the new belt started past and I'm letting dawn soak in awhile before I try to slide it past. I will have to make sure I clean the dawn off tboroughly.

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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 7:10 pm

Finally got it finished this afternoon. With patience I was able to work the new belt past the motor mount pulley. Test drove the car and the new belts work great. Now on to other things damaged by misuse and neglect. I notice a little water coming from the radiator or radiator hose on the passenger side so I figure either a bad hose or a cracked radiator. There is also a noise coming from the passenger side at idle. It's not the belts or tensioners but it sounds like it nay be coming from the alternator and the alternator housing was pretty hot to the touch.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyWed Oct 28, 2020 7:17 pm

Cliff96 wrote:
Finally got it finished this afternoon. With patience I was able to work the new belt past the motor mount pulley. Test drove the car and the new belts work great. Now on to other things damaged by misuse and neglect. I notice a little water coming from the radiator or radiator hose on the passenger side so I figure either a bad hose or a cracked radiator. There is also a noise coming from the passenger side at idle. It's not the belts or tensioners but it sounds like it nay be coming from the alternator and the alternator housing was pretty hot to the touch.

My radiator developed a hairline crack at +/- 180K.

With the belts off, turn the pullies by hand (including the alternator) - it won't take you long to find the culprit, which will be pullies that turn with any binding or roughness. First time I was told this, I didn't believe it -- but it actually works.
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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyThu Oct 29, 2020 6:46 am

I checked the alternator with a multimeter. It is charging the battery but when I checked it for A.C. current it registered 33 A.C. volts! The p.o. had a high amp draw sound system in the car and I suspect that is what cooked the diode pack in the alternator. That explains why it was so hot to the touch after the test drive.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyThu Oct 29, 2020 10:26 am

Cliff96 wrote:
I checked the alternator with a multimeter. It is charging the battery but when I checked it for A.C. current it registered 33 A.C. volts! The p.o. had a high amp draw sound system in the car and I suspect that is what cooked the diode pack in the alternator. That explains why it was so hot to the touch after the test drive.

If it's the delco alternator you can get and replace the  diode pack and brushes, resurface the commutator with a file or sanding block, separate the landings by scraping with a screwdriver or hacksaw blade (don't leave channels, they collect brush dust and short out the rotor over time).  Did that with a Ford alternator (they are similar but not identical), worked great.

IMHO the Delco remans are better than new.

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Cliff96
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyThu Oct 29, 2020 5:53 pm

I see the alternator rebuild kits on eBay. How hard is it to rebuild? How hard is it to replace the bearings for instance.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyThu Oct 29, 2020 9:03 pm

There are many how-to videos on Youtube - Link

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyFri Oct 30, 2020 2:01 pm

Cliff96 wrote:
I see the alternator rebuild kits on eBay. How hard is it to rebuild? How hard is it to replace the bearings for instance.

Bearings are pressed in, rest of the stuff is kinda bolted on. My opinion:  Don't bother the bearing on the slip ring end unless it is dry or damaged.  If the rotor is spinning nicely in the case, do not bother taking apart the drive end assembly. Another reason not to take the drive end apart is that most likely you will need to clean/resurface the slip rings - a piece of 400 grit or so emery paper held on the rings while you spin the rotor with your fingers, will work fine for this.   Of course if you have the time, inclination and parts go ahead and replace those bearings if they are in your overhaul kit HOWEVER be advised that the OE bearings (and bearings used in a AC Delco remanufactured alternator) are pretty good and will run a very, very long time. In my case, more than a decade. No kidding, you might want to leave them alone.

I've looked at several youtube videos on rebuilding the alternators, *all* of the videos I have seen have flaws.  On one, the guy talks about checking the stator coil by connecting it to a battery and seeing if he gets sparks. He got sparks alright. Then he's talking about doing a full-field test to check output but connects the alternator to a Frankensteinian tester that won't (apparently never could) do a full field test and dims the lights in his shop when the alternator is connected (the diodes in his are bad) - among other problems. (or was that the penny in the fuse panel ha ha)  In another, the guy heats a solder connection to the stator with a soldering iron then uses compressed air to blow lead fumes into the air blow away the solder and splatters himself with hot molten metal.  

Really?  I quit hunting through videos because I got tired of the parade of bullsh-t.  Those videos seem to me to be moreso entertainment than instruction.    

If you can use a wrench and a soldering iron, *everything* you need to know about overhauling the alternator is in the factory service manual.  A whopping 8 pages that's mostly diagrams. These alternators are pretty robust, and much of the service manual instruction is about how to determine what you don't have to do. My guess is most of the time you're replacing brushes and *maybe* the bearings, dressing the slip rings, and then you're done. Nice thing about the Delco remans is they simply take the used alternators apart and build good ones out of components that test new. They don't reuse bearings or brushes ever, and the rest of what they used has to hit new specs.  The only helpful thing I think I can add is, you may need an impact wrench to get the pulley nut off the rotor axle and a modest 3-jaw puller to pop it off.  When I disassembled mine I used a socket on a breaker bar along with a rod, I think it was a pump wrench handle, to hold the external fan still so the axle wouldn't move while I loosened the bolt, whilst seated on my kitchen floor.  Once loose, the bolt twists off using your fingers... the only reason I had to remove it, though, was that the pulley on the replacement alternator I bought from RockAuto arrived dented and I did not want to send the whole unit back. That is the alternator I'm running currently, it's been on for years.

As for the rest of the rebuild, it's mostly visual inspection, checking the rectifier for shorts/leaks/opens, a continuity check on the stator, and checking that the rotor isn't shorted to ground and its windings have 2.1 to 2.4 ohms resistance at room temp.


Last edited by albertj on Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Cliff96
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Name : Cliff
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PostSubject: Re: Help! Changing belts    Help! Changing belts  EmptyFri Oct 30, 2020 3:34 pm

I've got a remanufactured Delco unit coming from rockauto but I may keep my core and rebuild it. Thanks for the info
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