FAQ: Dexcool / Coolant / Antifreeze Types

Jack the R wrote:

What do you guys do with your old fluid?

I have a 55 gallon drum I pour it into. When it gets full I call a recycler to come take it. Last time it cost $60 to have it emptied. I fill it every 5 years or so...

Wish I had an autozone closer . . . May give them a try anyway. Got too much of this stuff sitting around in old buckets.

I give my used oil to a friend who runs a car repair shop, when I do my own oil changes. He heats his shop with used oil. I put it into detergent bottles, which I find will cap tight enough so they don't leak on the way to his shop, unlike other bottles I have tried.

I don't have any used antifreeze around ATM.

Albertj

I pour mine in little saucers and feed the neighborhood cats....

Mark, you should have your own show.

Rickw wrote:

I do the politically incorrect thing to do. I live in a heavily wooded area and have my own little spot for coolant.
Hell, It wasn't THAT long ago that is was considered OK to let it go down the drain in the street.

Dumping in the ground is going to keep it concentrated, and possibly contaminate ground water. I think I'd rather pour it down the regular drain and let it go thru the sewer treatement plant and get nice & diluted... Besides, how can you 'contaminate' sewage?


Or, go with the other Mark's idea and feed the kitties...
.

I've been waiting for someone to call me out on this.
I actually have a shop available to me at the end of my road. They let me either bring my fluids to them and dump there, or i can change oil or coolant right there and be done with it.
Nice having an old neighborhood shop in a rural area right down the street, it's a place where farmers and gearheads alike can go to get work done or schedule a little lift time now and then.
BTW, how have you been Eldo, haven't heard from you in a while. Hope everything is OK.

Things are OK, but you're right - I did drop off the planet for a while. I've had a bunch of work, appointments and preparations to get out of the way to get ready for rotator cuff surgery. Now that I've dropped back from Dilaudid to Percocet, I'm starting to catch up on all the backed up email and other Web stuff.
Thanks for asking, Rick.

PS - And once upon a time, when leaving our log cabin at Tahoe in the winter, we had to pour anti-freeze in the toilet bowls... which got flushed each time we went back up.
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Rickw wrote:

I do the politically incorrect thing to do. I live in a heavily wooded area and have my own little spot for coolant.
Hell, It wasn't THAT long ago that is was considered OK to let it go down the drain in the street.

Please don't take this personally...

Ethylene glycol is toxic to aquatic and land based life forms, and it does not take much. Admittedly, it will eventually break down into water and carbon dioxide.

However, used antifreeze contains more than just ethylene glycol and water. It can become contaminated with metals, oils and fuel in its use - these add to the toxicity and increase the environmental harm.

That said, odds are that if the antifreeze dumped into the woods does not hit the groundwater, it breaks down and becomes relatively harmless except for the additives and contaminants. However if it does hit the groundwater, one gallon of it will toxify (make unsafe to drink) up to 10,000 gallons of water.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no federal requirements for managing/disposing of used antifreeze, although most states regulate it. Which is no surprise because (a) it has the potential to be a hazardous waste due to its potentially high pH or its potential to have a high lead content (b) companies selling equipment or services for recycling it have taken the time to 'educate' state legislatures about it. Companies get around a buck a gallon to dispose of antifreeze. Get it? Point is that apparently in and of itself the antifreeze is not the regulated waste, rather it is the used antifreeze's content of copper, lead and such accumulated from engine cooling system wear and fuel or oil accumulated from combustion leaks that makes it hazardous.

I do not know whether antifreeze inhibits the biological activity of septic systems, and I am not interested in running a personal experiment to find out... but I hope my comment was informative and leads us all to make appropriate decisions about our used antifreeze.

Albertj

Al, I think he admitted that he really was having it handled properly when he said "I actually have a shop available to me at the end of my road. They let me either bring my fluids to them and dump there, or i can change oil or coolant right there and be done with it..."

Except for getting rid of those damn cats...

I've read through this thread but still have a few questions:

I thought Dexcool was pink and regular antifreeze green, someone may have topped my system off and mixed the two because it's brown now and I have to do something before winter. I'm going to flush and re-fill with Regular (green) antifreeze since it's something I prefer to do every couple years and the only good thing I've heard about the dexcool is that it does'nt kill the neighborhood cats. Will I have to change my hoses too? What problems might I encounter by switching from pink to green.
I'm thinking GM pushes the pink because they probably go through hundreds of thousands of gallons a year and care more about their EPA status than they do the consumer...could be wrong.

You just need to flush it out good, try using some Prestone cooling system flush or any other brand.
Point is flush it until only clear water comes out, remove the overflow tank from the fender well and give that a good cleaning as well. It is only held on by a few screws.
Check the underside of your radiator cap too, if it is brown buy a new one. Pull the thermostat and run the car with the flushing solution without the thermostat in the engine for a while, until it gets warm - it won't get up to normal temps but that's OK.
Drain all the water and flushing solution out, put in a new thermostat and seal, run it with straight garden hose water for a while and drain that out then add 50/50 of green anti-freeze (use distilled water to mix your anti-freeze) check all your hoses for dry rot externally. No need to replace hoses just because they had Dex-Cool in them. Install new cap, let it run until warm and bleed all air out of the system using the bleed valve in the thermostat housing, if you can get the front of the car up an incline or on ramps it makes it easier to bleed. Otherwise do the best you can on flat ground and re-bleed in a day or two to make sure there is no air left in the system.
You will have the cleanest cooling system in the neighborhood, but you need to after someone has mixed green and orange to make pink / brown. You'll be glad you did it the correct way when your done.
I do this same procedure to my car every 2 years because I'm anal, but i think it's worth it. If your hoses are original consider replacing them also for preventive measure. There is no reason why you should be stuck on the side of the road due to a blown radiator or heater hose.
Good Luck

Eldo wrote:

Al, I think he admitted that he really was having it handled properly when he said "I actually have a shop available to me at the end of my road. They let me either bring my fluids to them and dump there, or i can change oil or coolant right there and be done with it..."

Except for getting rid of those damn cats...

I agre - also will reiterate that under many conditions (including dumping on soil) the stuff breaks down pretty harmlessly anyway, except for if there are contaminants in it.

Albertj

BKRIV wrote:

I've read through this thread but still have a few questions:

I thought Dexcool was pink and regular antifreeze green, someone may have topped my system off and mixed the two because it's brown now and I have to do something before winter. I'm going to flush and re-fill with Regular (green) antifreeze since it's something I prefer to do every couple years and the only good thing I've heard about the dexcool is that it does'nt kill the neighborhood cats. Will I have to change my hoses too? What problems might I encounter by switching from pink to green.
I'm thinking GM pushes the pink because they probably go through hundreds of thousands of gallons a year and care more about their EPA status than they do the consumer...could be wrong.

I have seen brown (muddy-ish) coolant because nobody ever changed it. It might just need to be flushed. You should not need to replace any parts (unless they are worn and cracked hoses etc). It's about the age when the heater hoses and OEM rad hoses will start to let go, so it wouldn't hurt to do hoses at the same time.

Quote :

I thought Dexcool was pink and regular antifreeze green, someone may have topped my system off and mixed the two because it's brown now and I have to do something before winter. I'm going to flush and re-fill with Regular (green) antifreeze since it's something I prefer to do every couple years and the only good thing I've heard about the dexcool is that it does'nt kill the neighborhood cats. Will I have to change my hoses too? What problems might I encounter by switching from pink to green.
I'm thinking GM pushes the pink because they probably go through hundreds of thousands of gallons a year and care more about their EPA status than they do the consumer...could be wrong.

DexCool is typically orange in color. It will kill the neighborhood cats because it's an ethylene glycol antifreeze, just like the old green stuff. DexCool is actually a superior formula to the green stuff, so it lasts a much longer time. If you change back to the green, be sure and flush it every year or so, or at least test it to see if it's still working.

There is a debate on mixing DexCool and the old green formula, that it will create a gel or sludge in the cooling system - from what I've read, this is false, purely automotive folklore. If you mix the two, they will create a brown color, unappealing to most, but it is not going to damage your cooling system. The two formulas are different, but they are similar in that they are both ethylene glycol. You will not hurt anything by mixing the two.

My understanding in talking w/ an auto tech is exactly as Aaron is stating.

And, this is the rule I've always followed:
If your car has always had orange then the time between flushes is much longer (50K miles or 5 years). If your car has always had green, or changed from green to orange, or changed from orange to green, then you need to flush every 2 years regardless of mileage and regardless of what color antifreeze you now put in.

My 2 Eldo's came from the factory w/ orange and I've flushed them once...their temps have always been spot-on. Since I don't know what the previous owners might have done, my 2 Riv's have green and I flush them every two years...their temps remain spot-on also.

While it doesn't cause sludge like the rumors claim mixing the two it does reduce its efficiency and life span.

Quote :

There are rumors that mixing DEX-COOL with standard green (non-OAT) coolant causes a chemical reaction that produces sludge in the cooling system. According to the DEX-COOL manufacturer, however, "mixing a 'green' [non-OAT] coolant with DEX-COOL reduces the batch’s change interval to 2 years or 30,000 miles, but will otherwise cause no damage to the engine."[10]

According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

Well sure, if you dilute the 5 year antifreeze with 2 year antifreeze, you're going have some compromise. Imo, the only reason not to use DexCool is the LIM gasket issue, which should be fixed around 150k miles. Then keep using DexCool and enjoy 5 year change intervals.

If you dilute with green, or switch to all green, then you have 2 year change intervals, or one year intervals in my case, putting 30k miles on per year.

I'm not trying to dispute anything you've said AA, simply trying to add sources for even more credibility.

If its been mixed and the car is new to you, its good insurance to have the system flushed by a radiator shop and refilled with your choice of coolant. Since you can't be sure of how long its been in there. Just my 0.02

Bringing up a discussion on Dex-Cool is like discussing Politics or Religion. Maybe it should be banned.....j/k

Thank you all for the very warm welcome that you gave me. I think that Riv owners must be a fine bunch of gentlemen.I have a question for you, has anyone had any experience with EVANS waterless coolant in their engines? I used it all the time in the Jags and it workrd just fine with a straight six but I am unfamiliar as yet with the V6 SC that we have in our Rivs. Any discussion appreciated.
Len

I imagine Evans NPG+ would be fine, but in effect would be fixing a problem that does not really exist -- the Riv's cooling system seems to be of design and construction that is more than adequate.

The thing to do, however, is when you first get one and once in a while (every so many years) thereafter, remove the shroud that covers the radiator in order to clear debris. Over time (a decade or so?!?) enough can accumulate to reduce cooling efficiency. Secondly, with about the same interval, the radiator might require replacement because of unavoidable efficiency loss due to its aluminum construction (they get an insulting layer of aluminum oxide internally. can't be helped). My '98 gets a little warm running at speed up long hills on state highways (steeper than what would be on an interstate) but not enough to take a wrench to it and well within what the manual says to expect. Other than that, in operation it hits ~195 F or so and stays there. It could just be the accumulated debris thing, I intend to do that in the near future but have not yet.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

The thing to do, however, is when you first get one and once in a while (every so many years) thereafter, remove the shroud that covers the radiator in order to clear debris. Over time (a decade or so?!?) enough can accumulate to reduce cooling efficiency.

Albertj

I agree totally... When I bought my car, I removed the top-brace for the radiator to do something and found
a surprising amount of leaves that had found their way in between the radiator and condenser. I vacuumed
and blasted a garden hose through both units and my running temp dropped 5 degrees with no other changes.

Shortly after finishing a coolant flush at school, my teacher walked by and realized I was dumb enough to mix red dexcool and normal etheline glycol. It is my understanding that the mixture can congeal. How long do you guys think it is safe for my riv before flushing it again? I wont be able to get my car into the shop at school again for a week, and I have to do a good amount of driving for my job. Perhaps I am better off paying a shop to do a flush? Thanks

I think the whole congealing thing is mostly myth. According to the manufacturer of DEX-COOL, the only drawback to mixing is you won't get the 5 year coolant life that you would using straight DEX. Instead, you get 2 years, like with the old green stuff. Your engine should be safe, but please keep us posted!