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 Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good

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98riv
Jack the R
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Sep 22, 2007 11:50 pm

Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good Door_damage

Every spot where the door panel screws onto the door, on both door panels, is busted. This can only be caused by one thing - the force necessary to pull those heavy doors.

Now that's some quality engineering, GM clap Not even 90,000 miles and it's falling apart. evil
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySun Sep 23, 2007 8:33 pm

Is that second picture where the inside door handle attaches? Mine is pulling out like that, but once it is screwed into the door it is fine. I would think most of the stress is concentrated on those two screws that are on the door handle pull.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyMon Sep 24, 2007 8:58 am

quote: "This can only be caused by one thing - the force necessary to pull those heavy doors."

Could be caused by someone pulling on a fully extended door with the car on incline. Might also be the result of continued use of the handle after the screws have loosened over time.

I have to tighten them down every 30k miles or so, but mine are still holding up.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
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'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyMon Sep 24, 2007 2:48 pm

Have you had the door panel off? Mine looks perfectly normal from the outside. There's a cosmetic plastic layer that still looks good, but the inner fiberglass layer is shattered.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyMon Sep 24, 2007 2:59 pm

It's worth noting they reused most of the old internal parts after the accident. I'd say that panel held up just fine, the pull handle is still firm. It's also possible the internals aren't in top shape, but I couldn't tell you without checking. No door is too heavy, imo:

Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good Wreckriv1

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyMon Sep 24, 2007 10:57 pm

98riv - Yeah, the 2nd pic is one of the door pull areas.

Why that area is under stress, I don't know. I think you are right that the scews go into the metal of the door, but evidently force is still being transferred into the fiberglass.

GM should have engineers who know how to prevent this. I'm sure they do but the bean counters overruled them.

AA - I had a teacher in high school who had a repetitive stress injury from a heavy car door. From that angle you could argue that the door is too heavy - but I agree about keeping the door heavy from an accident point of view.

Regardless, if GM is going to build a heavy door they need to design it to hold up.

Maybe the Riv should have come with motorized lambo doors.
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brians74x
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 9:23 pm

My pass door panel is doing exactly like the first pic. Whats the best way to fix this?
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 9:25 pm

riv doors are not heavy. Shut a door on a 70-81 Camaro or Firebird....You wanna talk heavy
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 9:32 pm

brians74x wrote:
riv doors are not heavy. Shut a door on a 70-81 Camaro or Firebird....You wanna talk heavy

thumbsup

Ditto the Challenger/Cuda, the '73-'77 GrandAm/LeMans/MonteCarlo/Regal/GrandPrix/Cutlass... and of course the Eldorado's and Mark IV's of the same period.

My '81 Eldo doors were lighter than the '73 Grand Am's, and the Rivi's are lighter than the Eldo's...
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 11:14 pm

brians74x wrote:
My pass door panel is doing exactly like the first pic. Whats the best way to fix this?

Epoxy and thin stainless flat washers of appropriate size. Use JB weld or another liquid epoxy so you can work it in before it starts curing (the putty epoxies will cure too fast to work into the cracks). clean the area well before epoxying, with an ammonia type window cleaner followed by a wipeoff with alcohol (dry gas).

When you epoxy the damaged areas, Let It Sit Undisturbed for the full cure time per epoxy directions. after you work epoxy into the cracks, glop it on over the cracked areas. Use flat, half round and rat tail files to file the repair areas into shape after the cure is done, follow with fine (200 or finer) sandpaper for neat finish to the repairs if you want. Put the washers of appropriate size onto the screwholes (think kind of like notebook paper reinforcements, except don't lick the washers), hold them in place with epoxy. Optionally - if you can get some fiberglass "gauze" or fabric or tape, cut pieces to size then you can get the epoxy onto the repair areas then put the fiberglass over the wet epoxy then work more epoxy into the fiberglass.

I am not sure how wise it is to glue the door pull handles back onto the trim panel. The "pro" is it gives you a handle to hold when installing/removing the panel. The "con" is it gives you more leverage to bust up the door panel.

Albertj


Last edited by albertj on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 1:16 am

albertj wrote:
brians74x wrote:
My pass door panel is doing exactly like the first pic. Whats the best way to fix this?

Epoxy and thin stainless flat washers of appropriate size. Use JB weld or another liquid epoxy so you can work it in before it starts curing (the putty epoxies will cure too fast to work into the cracks). clean the area well before epoxying, with an ammonia type window cleaner followed by a wipeoff with alcohol (dry gas).

When you epoxy the damaged areas, Let It Sit Undisturbed for the full cure time per epoxy directions. after you work epoxy into the cracks, glop it on over the cracked areas. Use flat, half round and rat tail files to file the repair areas into shape after the cure is done, follow with fine (200 or finer) sandpaper for neat finish to the repairs if you want. Put the washers of appropriate size onto the screwholes (think kind of like notebook paper reinforcements, except don't lisk the washers), hold them in place with epoxy. Optionally - if you can get some fiberglass "gauze" or fabric or tape, cut pieces to size then you can get the epoxy onto the repair areas then put the fiberglass over the wet epoxy then work more epoxy into the fiberglass.

I am not sure how wise it is to glue the door pull handles back onto the trim panel.

Albertj

Thanks
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Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good Empty
PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 1:23 pm

brians74x wrote:
albertj wrote:
brians74x wrote:
My pass door panel is doing exactly like the first pic. Whats the best way to fix this?

Epoxy and thin stainless flat washers of appropriate size. Use JB weld or another liquid epoxy so you can work it in before it starts curing (the putty epoxies will cure too fast to work into the cracks). clean the area well before epoxying, with an ammonia type window cleaner followed by a wipeoff with alcohol (dry gas).

When you epoxy the damaged areas, Let It Sit Undisturbed for the full cure time per epoxy directions. after you work epoxy into the cracks, glop it on over the cracked areas. Use flat, half round and rat tail files to file the repair areas into shape after the cure is done, follow with fine (200 or finer) sandpaper for neat finish to the repairs if you want. Put the washers of appropriate size onto the screwholes (think kind of like notebook paper reinforcements, except don't lick the washers), hold them in place with epoxy. Optionally - if you can get some fiberglass "gauze" or fabric or tape, cut pieces to size then you can get the epoxy onto the repair areas then put the fiberglass over the wet epoxy then work more epoxy into the fiberglass.

I am not sure how wise it is to glue the door pull handles back onto the trim panel. The "pro" is it gives you a handle to hold when installing/removing the panel. The "con" is it gives you more leverage to bust up the door panel.

Albertj

Thanks

You're welcome. I had a Volvo that had panels even more brittle than the Riv, epoxy repair worked fine to stop the cracking. It took a little doing to mix the JB Weld right. If you use too much hardener you get an epoxy that cures weakly. If you use too little it takes a long time to cure. If you use way too little it won't really cure at all in reasonable time to file/sand it down. So mind the label directions carefully. Consider getting some paper bathroom cups to mix the epoxy in, and some disposable parts brushes (the metal ones NAPA sells) and toothpicks with which to apply the mixed epoxy and work it into cracks.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 4:45 pm

Another excellent epoxy putty,very different from the rest, is MarineTex...
I've used it to permanently plug a hole drilled through the bottom of the boat, spread it on the bottom of a rusting-through gas tank and used it for the rest of the season, and even filled the erosion behind the water pump impeller in my 430... It's unusual in that it cures faster the thicker you lay it on, and slower if you over-catalyze it. It's also sandable, tappable & paintable.

http://www.marinetex.com/marinetexepoxyputty.html
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Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good Empty
PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 10:14 pm

brians74x wrote:
riv doors are not heavy.

It's not too heavy for me, but the door panel is too heavy for the way it's attached to the door. GM should have come up with a stronger way to fasten it, or made a lighter door panel.
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Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good Empty
PostSubject: Re: Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good   Riv Door Too Heavy for it's own Good EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 10:50 pm

Eldo wrote:
Another excellent epoxy putty,very different from the rest, is MarineTex...
I've used it to permanently plug a hole drilled through the bottom of the boat, spread it on the bottom of a rusting-through gas tank and used it for the rest of the season, and even filled the erosion behind the water pump impeller in my 430... It's unusual in that it cures faster the thicker you lay it on, and slower if you over-catalyze it. It's also sandable, tappable & paintable.

http://www.marinetex.com/marinetexepoxyputty.html

This helps thanks. Be aware that an issue is that you have to work the epoxy *into* the cracks in the door panel. Putty may not be preferable to a liquid paste like JBWeld.

Albertj
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